US Outlawing organic farming

[bikeninja]

I can understand the bill being passed for COMMERCIAL FOODS, but even then, there are companies who try to supply only organic food, you would be shutting down many businesses (not to mention pissing the people off who want to buy organic only)
But what really gets me is that even if I farmed in my backyard, so would be illegal for me not to use chemicals? That's pretty much invading my personal lifestyle. They may as well say: "anyone who eats organic is a hippy, and hppies will destroy our nation, we must weed out all the hippies."
Get real. A large community of the American populace only eats organic foods. There are intire sections in grocery stores (or entire stores themselves) that only sell organic. By-by businesses...
And if Obama is trying to help the U.S. go green, I doubt he will let this slide.

 

[Ignatius87]

Good. Organic fertilizer caused all those e coli infections anyway.

 

[GyroCaptain]

I'll wait until I learn more about the issue before I pass judgment. Always good to get information from a variety of sources.

Exactly. I noted in the body of the email that while it listed fertilizer controls and so on, it didn't mention the requirement to use specific seed that seemed assumed. What people seem to believe this entails is inconsistent; if I can be linked the bill, offered evidence that it has above only cursory support, and has certain specific things spelled out, then I'll be worried, until then this set's off my 'fear-mongering' alert something fierce.

 

[Portkins]

Onward to Canada!

 

[bikeninja]

After watching the first video, I realized that organic meats would be included (duh...)
Normally I don't eat organic, but I enjoy organic meats more then regular, store bought meats. Dose this mean that I would no longer buy free-range eggs either? And what about hunting and hunters? they are not farmers, but I could see another bill pushing for hunting grounds where the animals environment are altered to genetically raise them a certain way. (They already have hunting grounds with schedules, specific diets, etc.)

I'm just glad I'm up in Canada, and hope this wont effect my country if it goes through.

 

[Hunde Des Krieg]

If this is going to prohibit me from growing my own food then these people can go take a flying leap. Seriously. You have no right to tell me not to grow MY OWN food.

 

[GyroCaptain]

Here, how about everyone actually reads the current draft... [http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h875/text]
Most of what has been said is speculative. The main thrust of the bill is to generate a new wasteful bureaucracy duplicating many functions extant in the FDA already. The part that's tricky is that the new FSA would have the authority to make things up on their own regarding what is food safety and to enforce it: this coupled with the requirement of all packing, manufacturing, serving, etc. establishments to be registered technically means they could if unopposed. As to fertilizer restrictions, seed restrictions, and control of home growers, most of that is either speculative based on what they could do, or made up out of whole cloth.

The bill is a morass of weasel words, giving carte blanche to all types of things becoming illegal, but does not hit the panic alarm as of yet. The main point which highlighted to me Monsanto's interest was the clause involving government-supported research into "food safety" to include things like GM foods. They're in it for the money, of course, but they're a little more subtle than they've been given credit for.

The bill was introduced by Rosa Delauro, if you're looking for someone to blame. She and the other supporters are mainly old-guard northern democrats of the Ted Kennedy stripe.

 

[Inverse Skies]

Isn't that interesting... I'm wondering what the specific trail of logic is behind that? Really there should be a market for organic foods, it gives people an option if they don't like the idea of pesticide residues still being present on their food.

That just seems odd to me... non-sensible in a strange way.

 

[icarusfountain]

Thanks for the good clarification there, GyroCaptain. Still, I'm surprised that concern was raised in Australia before I ever even heard of this bill. I live in the midwest; agriculture is everything out here, so it's amazing that the various lobbyists and panic groups haven't been broadcasting their propaganda about this yet.

Although we have been pretty focused on the risk of a new coal plant lately.

 

[GyroCaptain]

Thanks for the good clarification there, GyroCaptain. Still, I'm surprised that concern was raised in Australia before I ever even heard of this bill. I live in the midwest; agriculture is everything out here, so it's amazing that the various lobbyists and panic groups haven't been broadcasting their propaganda about this yet.

Although we have been pretty focused on the risk of a new coal plant lately.

I'd say odds are pretty good the news got swept up in Australia because the major parts of the farm industry here just shook their heads and moved on. It's really not that much beyond existing FDA controls except allowing far more in potentia. Any place without a whole lot of local news could be justified in freaking out a little on limited information.

 

[Hunde Des Krieg]

Wha!? Really? Really? Don't insecticides and chemical sprays pose a risk too? Why in God's name would you ban organic farming!?

It's inefficient
It's expensive
It's polluting
It's high in resource consumption
and it's a lie.

Eight percent of the E. coli cases in the U.S. come from organic foods.

And the other ninety-two percent?

Largely, contamination on the user's end due to improper food safety measures (such as using clean tools and a clean surface)

If this is going to prohibit me from growing my own food then these people can go take a flying leap. Seriously. You have no right to tell me not to grow MY OWN food.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, I just can't read the original source document GyroCaptain linked (legalese at quarter to midnight, no way)... But as far as I'd figure, this bill is only applicable to RETAIL market foods. Home growing for personal use, do what you want.

Basically, people...
Organic food is a crock of shit, a health craze as misguided and futile as all the rest. Pesticides and agricultural chemicals aren't some boogyman to be afraid of, they are highly regulated and tested products that are deemed safe for human consumption. What they give us, crop yields eight to ten times that of an "organic" crop. No insects or parasites inside the food, bigger and healthier produce and grains, all around a good thing. The two biggest lies about Organic foods are that they are healthier for you and better for the environment. Both are total lies.

Be it genetically modified crops, or just state-of-the-art farming on natural seed, "regular" retail produce have more vitamins and minerals than organic. There is no poison on your tomato, and if the pesticides were some horrible disease-causing thing, we'd have known by now, because we have been using the same farming methods since before any of us were born. In fact, the pesticides and fertilizers are much improved today over what our parents had. We have taken the chemical essentials of fertilizer and concentrated them... Do you know what was used before our sterile fertilizer concentrate? Shit. Literal shit. Horse, cow, pig, whatever shit you could find, it became manure, which was what they used. Imagine, eating a potato grown from pig shit, a pig with diarrhea from bad Mexican food. Progress IS wonderful.

As to organic being better for the environment... It takes four to ten times the amount of land to grow a truckload of organic carrots compared to normal ones. Four to ten times the fertilizer (and the pig-shit kind, not the good stuff), four to ten times the power, water, pesticides, and gasoline for all the machinery. Organic is waste, plain and simple.

So banning organic foods, to me, is a good thing. The only thing worse than destroying the environment, is destroying the environment while thinking you're saving it, and being a pretentious dick about it to everyone you see.

For the most part I agree with you, I just don't think there should be any way to ban the ability to grow your own food, not that their was in that bill. Personally I think the whole organic food thing is turning its back on millenia of human progress. But manure isn't necassarally a bad thing if the manure comes from your own animals that are on controlled diets. Like my garden here, I use horse manure from our animals and it works great and so far has had no side effects. Of course manure isn't just plain shit, it has biodegraded to a point where it is in essence a nutrient rich soil and is mixed with regular soil as well. But yeah in essence Organic produce is just silly health/fitness fad BS. Although I have never had a tomato as good as my home grown stuff from a store.

 

[scotth266]

Seems rather pointless. People want options, let them have options.

 

[Silver]

Here, how about everyone actually reads the current draft... [http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h875/text]
Most of what has been said is speculative. The main thrust of the bill is to generate a new wasteful bureaucracy duplicating many functions extant in the FDA already. The part that's tricky is that the new FSA would have the authority to make things up on their own regarding what is food safety and to enforce it: this coupled with the requirement of all packing, manufacturing, serving, etc. establishments to be registered technically means they could if unopposed. As to fertilizer restrictions, seed restrictions, and control of home growers, most of that is either speculative based on what they could do, or made up out of whole cloth.

The bill is a morass of weasel words, giving carte blanche to all types of things becoming illegal, but does not hit the panic alarm as of yet. The main point which highlighted to me Monsanto's interest was the clause involving government-supported research into "food safety" to include things like GM foods. They're in it for the money, of course, but they're a little more subtle than they've been given credit for.

The bill was introduced by Rosa Delauro, if you're looking for someone to blame. She and the other supporters are mainly old-guard northern democrats of the Ted Kennedy stripe.

Those things are almost intentionally written to be impossible to read for normal people though.

The reason for people in Australia and other places to be concerned is because America is a very powerful nation, and especially when it comes to agriculture. A huge amount of food is produced in America, and exported almost everywhere. A bill like this passed in America would affect the rest of the world. Besides, it's more ammo to use against America, so why not?

 

[Mrsoupcup]

Is this news from the Twilight zone?

 

[GyroCaptain]

Those things are almost intentionally written to be impossible to read for normal people though.

Did I say I was a normal person? Did I? OH, right, I did suggest other people read it. I'm pretty sure that was to share the misery.

The reason for people in Australia and other places to be concerned is because America is a very powerful nation, and especially when it comes to agriculture. A huge amount of food is produced in America, and exported almost everywhere. A bill like this passed in America would affect the rest of the world. Besides, it's more ammo to use against America, so why not?

Exactly. I become more and more convinced by the day that the US is a reality show for everyone else. This feeling persists even after they changed the show lead to Obama to improve ratings. I mean, uh...

 

[Vuzzmop]

I don't know enough about this to make a well decided argument, but I doubt it will have a major effect on what the people of thge US eat. It's not that organic is bad, in fact most supposedly organic food I have tasted is better (although this is largely due to the smaller size of farm, and therefore greater attention to individual plants/animals))than the alternative, but so far, there doesn't appear to be any major risks here.
I'll look into it.

 

[Lancer723]

There is basically the same risk eating organic as inorganically grown foods, albeit for different reasons. Organic foods are not, contrary to popular belief, healthier then normally inorganically grown foods. Its a tradeoff, you can have foods free of insecticides, or food free of bacteria that the chemicals on the plants prevent.

I choose the cheaper one.

 

[Captain_Caveman]

If this happens I'm moving to Europe. More specifically, Switzerland.

right after i make sure to cast every vote i can against whoever supports this bill that is..