USA Customs are policing DVD's now.....

[Shavon513]

This is worrisome. US Homeland Security can't get away with this for long without the public complaining about it. We successfully deterred SOPA/PIPA's progress, now it's time to protest further.

 

[Sizzle Montyjing]

History repeats itself, eh?
This, is what you call censorship and paranoia.

Just change things up a bit, screw up the pattern of history.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Inciting hatred? How does that justify arresting her? If the US can have the Neo-Nazi's marching down a heavily Jewish holocuast survivor town, then why can't the UK have one women mouth off(I don't support or agree with her) on a train? What about freedom of speech? Doesn't the UK have some equivalent?

Because a logical country wouldn't Neo Nazis march down a heavily populated Jewish holocaust survivor town.

How is it a bad thing that a country lets you have your own opinions and say what you want but draws the line at something that might seriously hurt somebody or incite hatred?

A persons right to express themselves ends at someone else's suffering.

hmmm are you sure? I was watching Question Time on YouTube and they had Nick Griffin on and they asked him about why he changed his feelings about the Holocaust and if it had to do with a recent law that people thought made him denounce his previous statements. Just go to Youtube and type in Nick Griffin Question Time.

No, the UK is definitely not listed as a country that outlawed holocaust denial.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

So the US is illogical because we follow what Voltaire said about a persons right to speak?

Your country might not be a bad thing if they applied the rules to everyone, but from what I've seen, this [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=london%20muslim%20protest&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1442l9667l0l9836l34l31l6l2l3l1l393l3315l6.15.1.1l23l0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=XIUcT5r4EYizgwf7y-n1Cw&biw=1366&bih=623&sei=XYUcT_CLOo_CgAej16yeCw] is not the case, so your government just ends up letting some people say what they want while suppressing other people from saying what they want.


As for "A persons right to express themselves ends at someone else's suffering", I have ask what do you mean when you type "suffering"? Assuming you don't mean physical, what kind of suffering are you suffering to?

There's a difference between speaking and inciting hatred.

And if you don't see the suffering involved in Nazi's marching through a Holocaust survivor town. Then I honestly don't know what to say.

In my books, the minute you start verbally attacking a person. Not just insulting them but actually attacking them and calling for violence or discrimination. Which is the implication with any racist movement. Then it's gone beyond free speech and begun to tread into hate speech.

And yea, you're right. Our government has a stupid double standard when it comes to racially sensitive issues.

They let a lot of Muslim protesters get away with things they wouldn't allow white protesters to get away with for fear of being labelled discriminative.

It's all tied up in bullshit ingrained guilt. Hopefully we won't see to much more of that.

I'll also just answer your other question here.

In that specific circumstance, I still think they'd be too fearful of being labelled as discriminatory and not do anything.

to be clear, it wasn't just a bunch of random neo-nazi's running up to people and saying mean things, it was an organized march that the city refused to give a permit to, but the ACLU came and defended the Neo-Nazi's right to have a "parade"(if it can be called that). Here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Socialist_Party_of_America_v._Village_of_Skokie] is what I am referring to.

Seeing as how the UK is picking and choosing who gets to have full expression and who doesn't, I would not want the US to be like that. I rather have it like here, where the WBC can have their stupid protest and I can go and protest in front of a Church that is part of the WBC.

 

[Pebblig]

I'm glad I'm in the UK, we're a bit behind you on the crazy curve.

not really, you laws on what people can and can't say(see: holocaust denial and women on train being racist).

You're perfectly welcome to deny it over here. Being a Nazi/supporting Nazism is only illegal in Germany and France as far as I'm aware. Although any fuckwit who denies the holocaust deserves to be shut away. Don't get me started on that peasant on the tram.

 

[Vault101]

really?...and an instructional DVD as well?

anyway another story.....In a music store there was a copy of Nine inch nails concept aulbum "Year zero" on the back it said somthing like "Please report all suspicious activity to the United states department of morality" and I honestly thought it was reeal

 

[Gmans uncle]

Okay, I have a theory...
All this stuff was only happening in isolated incidents UNTIL I started talking about going to collage in Canada, now it seems like a new thing to hate about the US pops up every day... So in other words I'm starting to think that this, SOPA, PIPA, NDAA, and the things with the US extending it's reach beyond it's boarders (IE: the Spain thing and what they did to that British student) are all just the US government trying everything they can to get me fed up so I'll just leave already...

And if that's their motive, they seem be doing a bang up job of it...

 

[Weaver]

Okay, I have a theory...
All this stuff was only happening in isolated incidents UNTIL I started talking about going to collage in Canada, now it seems like a new thing to hate about the US pops up every day... So in other words I'm starting to think that this, SOPA, PIPA, NDAA, and the things with the US extending it's reach beyond it's boarders (IE: the Spain thing and what they did to that British student) are all just the US government trying everything they can to get me fed up so I'll just leave already...

And if that's their motive, they seem be doing a bang up job of it...

What school are you planning on going to?

 

[Gmans uncle]

Okay, I have a theory...
All this stuff was only happening in isolated incidents UNTIL I started talking about going to collage in Canada, now it seems like a new thing to hate about the US pops up every day... So in other words I'm starting to think that this, SOPA, PIPA, NDAA, and the things with the US extending it's reach beyond it's boarders (IE: the Spain thing and what they did to that British student) are all just the US government trying everything they can to get me fed up so I'll just leave already...

And if that's their motive, they seem be doing a bang up job of it...

What school are you planning on going to?

I'm not 100% sure yet (as I said, right now I'm just talking) but I was thinking of going in or near Toronto, I understand the standardized test scores (SAT, CAT, etc.)don't hold any weight with getting scholarships up there so my near perfect GPA will actually do something for me without being rendered useless by my poor test scores. I probably wont be making any final decisions for a while though, as I'm still planning on going to a local 2 year collage before moving up north (or at least that's the plan).

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

You're acting like that's a bad thing. Aslong as a person isn't acting hatefully to another person, they can say whatever they want.

I'm acting like what is a bad thing? I stated that it was good that the ACLU won their case(even though I don't support the people who the ACLU defended).

Which is a million times more sensible than allowing people to scream at each other and call people less than human, depending on what exactly the speaker dislikes about them.

Funny you mention that because I know that the UK seems to have their own little situation similar to the US in regards to jerks being allowed to march in places they shouldn't, which is the Orange Order's history of going marching through Catholic neighborhoods.

The freedom to hate speech is about as ludicrous an idea of freedom as someone can come up with.

Do you honestly believe you're not truly free unless you have the ability to verbally demean other people based on religion, sexuality or appearance? Because that's all your quarrel amounts to.

No, what I'm saying is that I support people being able to voice opinions that I don't agree with. Now granted if they are a political figure, tv host, or some other kind of significant leader, their employer may take actions against what they said(like with Don Imus) which could mean that they may get fired by their company or be suspended or some other punishment, but it doesn't mean the government must get involved. But a private citizen isn't going to be arrested for being racist like the woman on the train.

Like I said, I'm not saying the UK's government is good or even sane. But our different views on freedom of expression make more sense than the US's,'say whatever you want, but be prepared to get sued for slander' approach.

Yeah I would say that telling people that they will be arrested because they say something that's offensive(especially when it is only select people that will be arrested) is worse than what we have here. As for suing people, I don't think the lady on the train would be sued, your over exaggerating what happens over here.
I will say this, you guys might make more sense if you actually practiced what you preach, but your government doesn't do that. Instead your government picks and chooses who can say/do insulting/offensive things, like placing a ban [http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/26/edl-march-banned-tower-hamlets] on a EDL march, while allowing [http://www.demotix.com/news/826813/muslim-extremists-noisy-protest-911-commemoration-london] the MAC to partake in the burning of the US flag at the US embassy during 9/11 and acting in such a way that would get the EDL kicked out if the tables were turned. When your government finally practices what it preaches and they no longer allow people to have protest with signs like this [http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Rs0OKPZEAPk/TJdp5mFrumI/AAAAAAAAB3M/kO4ieUzp7zE/s1600/london-muslim-protest-3.jpg], then you can boast how much more sense your system has.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

And just like that, the US got a whole bunch more stupid in my eyes ^.^ And oh man, may I kill myself if it ever stops XD This is just bad man, really bad

I sure hope somewhere out there some people who live in the states are actually noticing all of this crap and moving away, cause really, I'd never recommend living there. Ever

 

[klaynexas3]

i quit. i'm taking a small army of guerrilla units to an island of Cuba, turning it into a country, then sealing us off from the rest of the world to live our lives on said small island. or i'll just go live in the woods bear grylls style.

 

[Glerken]

Whoa whoa whoa. Policing any potential harmful ideas that might be negative towards the position of the state crossing the border?

WHAT THE FUCK AMERICA?

I don't like that one bit. Not one bit at all. Canadian customs, so help me god if you start doing something similar...

This is almost unbelievable. More proof requested.

Owyn Merrilin fact checked it a few posts down.

Anyway, <link=http://us-code.vlex.com/vid/immoral-articles-importation-prohibited-19194397>here's the text of the law in question, and <link=http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title19/pdf/USCODE-2010-title19-chap4-subtitleII-partI-sec1305.pdf>here's a pdf of the same law from an actual government site, if anyone wants to dispute the plain text copy I found. The real question here isn't whether the law exists, but if it's actually being enforced the way the OP is suggesting. This seems to be a viral "pass it on" type thing on Facebook at the moment, so whether J. Michael Strazynski posted it or not, he probably didn't originate it. I'm really hoping this is the result of someone finding out about the law and jumping to some conclusions about how it would need to be enforced[footnote]Note: there are tons of laws on the books that just aren't enforced, but haven't been removed because that would take more time and money than it's worth. This is especially true when it's a state law that has been found unconstitutional in other states; why spend the time, money, and effort needed to repeal something when you can just decide not to enforce it?[/footnote]. I'll have to keep an eye out now to see if they really are using it the way the OP described, though.

Thank you for actually following through, shame a lot of people just skim the OP and then post.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

A bad thing that people aren't allowed to organise hate rallies. Like the KKK.

As long as they file for the right to protest, and it meets the requirements that are set for all organizations, why should they not have a right to say (imo) stupid crap? I could understand if you disliked how its done here if we didn't make people go through certain procedures, but people do have to do these kinds of things in an orderly way.

Like that's not what happens here. People are allowed to voice whatever opinions they like. But the minute they start inciting hatred or acting aggressively, they will be punished.

The difference is I typed that the company that owns the radio/tv station would do this, while over there(in the UK) the government is the one doing this.

You know, because the rest of us shouldn't be forced to put up with it. Like the crazy (probably drunk) train lady.

Why shouldn't people put up with the train lady, especially if people are somehow forced to put up with Anjem Choudary?

I've already said our government is letting certain demographics get away with more than others. That's nothing to do with being selective with freedom of expression and everything to do with them being terrified of being accused of racism.

Spoiler: ....what?

You tell me that your government allows demographics to help determine if a group of people are allowed to say and do things, and if the group of people are not part of the specific demographic, the government is less than considerate of what they have to say. Yet, you still claim that, that action is not an example of being selective with freedom of expression? Are you kidding me? If not called "being selective with freedom of expression", then what else should I call it, racism perhaps? Because those kinds of policies seem pretty racist.

Also, your politicians being motivated by fear doesn't change what they are doing.

It's a symptom of a much larger issue. But the meat and potatoes of how we treat freedom of expression is much more logical than the 'fuck it, let's just let them all scream and call each other names.' approach the US takes.

lol, you keep claiming you have a more logical system, and yet earlier on you admitted that the government doesn't even follow its own system. Again, you government is not practicing what it is preaching. Your describing something that your government doesn't do.

Some movements are designed to do nothing but incite hate and discriminate.

You mean like the Orange Order and their marching through Catholic neighborhoods?

US law doesn't recognise that because damn near everything is protected under the first amendment.

Yes, that damn First Amendment! Always (amongst other things) protecting freedom of assembly and speech to people who do not have the same opinion/views as the majority of the population! I mean who cares [http://en.proverbia.net/citastema.asp?tematica=493] if these people don't act out violently, we shouldn't allow them to speak or assemble because they are saying things that go against our ideology (end sarcasm)!!!

Except if it violates the 'miller test'. Which is a pretty useless standard that just allows the judge to rule however he fancies. Leading to a lot of discriminatory publications and movements due to it's innate subjectivity.

Fair enough, your not the first person to point out its flaws.

Atleast with UK law all hatespeech is forbidden. Unless of course the governments terrified of being perceived as racist.

lol, again I don't know if your being serious or not with having that first sentence follow the second. Your contradicting yourself, first you state that all hate speech is forbidden, then you state that there are exceptions that the UK government makes if they feel motivated(see: fear of being called racist).

And you don't need to say it, I hate the hypocrisy of the current situation more than you could know. But our current... unfortunate, exception to the rule doesn't de-validate the logic behind the rule itself.

Apparently I do need to say it again because you keep mentioning this great system your government is supposed to have, but in actuality they don't practice it. When you stop telling me about how the UK government is supposed to be(when comparing it to the US), and instead start talking about how the UK government actually is(in comparison to the US system), then I'll stop bring up the injustice(how is this [http://images18.fotki.com/v674/photos/5/1222605/8339508/muslimAP1807_468x317-vi.jpg] ok, but this [http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/files/2011/09/edl2_1537927c.jpg] is not?) in your government.
Your right that your country's practice of injustice doesn't "de-validate" the logic behind that idea(to ban all hate speech), but its just too bad that your government doesn't use that logic instead of the "separate but equal" system that it seems to have now.


Lastly, don't get me wrong, I'm not some US nationalist. The UK is far from being a terrible government and country, there are actually a few things that I like [http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iywIBCihyNU/Sw12IgGngUI/AAAAAAAADfc/tphlFVrp6fQ/s1600/Cheryl_Cole_04.jpg] about the UK,

 

[Duruznik]

You know, I used to want to MOVE to America. Now I feel SAFER living in ISRAEL. In the fucking MIDDLE EAST. Where there are religious and nationalist extremists fighting religious and nationalist extremists.

 

[Thyunda]

snip

As an English-born part of an Irish Catholic family, I'd just like to say that our government is ridiculously discriminatory. Muslims are perfectly permitted to push for Sharia law and demand that women get stripped of their rights, but until they actually physically harm somebody, the law won't do anything.
One white Londoner complains about black people in London (Anybody who knows the first thing about London knows that it's dominated by violent gangs of black kids) and she's hauled off to prison with her kid snatched from her arms.

So no. I won't accept that our Government isn't terrible, when they're more determined to defend a gang of angry Muslims than they are a British-born, justifiably racist woman.

Oh. And y'know what else? Every time a politician says something that makes a tiny bit of sense, the fucking Liberal Democrats start running their mouths, and then the poor sod gets disowned by his own party.
I'm referring to Ken Livingstone, and his push for different rape sentences - i.e. Intoxicated sex should get a far shorter sentence than violent rape. This was met by the anti-Ken 'Rape is rape' campaign.

Our Governments are so ridiculously bad, they don't even TRY to look like they're trying to do some good. Hell, when Scotland had a referendum to consider independence, David Cameron and Ed Miliband started crying and saying "You don't have the legal power to do this!!!!"
Scotland, being Scotland, repeated their actions during the Lockerbie bomber debacle and replied "Fuck off."

 

[Akimoto]

For the current state USA seems to be in now, I find it amusing that some of the PRCs I know what to live there.

 

[Sjakie]

"The American Dream...because you have to be asleep to believe it." - George Carlin

also: Land of the Free, trolololol.

I recommend serious activism/protesting and researching which policymakers made this into law.

 

[Westaway]

USA is really turning into a police state..

The interesting thing is, if my history is correct, this is exactly the sort of pattern most empires follow right before they collapse.

Scary stuff. I wonder how long it will take for some huge shit to go down in the USA.

 

[Ilikemilkshake]

Thoughts?

That <link=http://www.rights.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sickle1.jpg>this was funny. WAS. Now it's very close to reality.

I dont think that flag means what you think it means.

OT: If this is true, and is actually being enforced like is claimed, yeah that sucks alot.
We've also got ACTA coming in doing a very similar thing to the internet, so really its not a good time for personal freedoms.

Spoiler

video is titled with SOPA but is actually talking about ACTA <youtube=NXhIktkK78s>

 

[JesterRaiin]

Thoughts?

That <link=http://www.rights.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sickle1.jpg>this was funny. WAS. Now it's very close to reality.

I dont think that flag means what you think it means.

Go on please...
I'm open to possibilities.