The fact that we don't have socialized health care is pathetic. Honestly it is. I don't trust companies for jack shit. Hopefully someday soon we'll all realize that universal healthcare is a good idea. I'm jealous of other developed nations, in that respect. And no, there's no way I see to defend our current medical care. The system is stupid.
USA health system... umm... what the hell?!
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I could be wrong. I now that soon it will be illegal to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions. Not sure about denying treatment. And if it is its not until 2014(when our healthcare bill goes into effect)Dense_Electric said:
Eh.. not sure about that. Here in Canada, it is true that there are some major issues that don't get dealt with in time and some issues do have to get worse before they are bumped up on the priority list. I don't, however, recall ever hearing about anything like you describe happening on anything near a frequent basis. I'm not sure where you heard that from, and your perspective on paying now VS paying later is quite right, but what you say in that last paragraph sounds a lot like traditional anti gov't health care rhetoric.Dense_Electric said:
That's a little mind-boggling for me, going to any physician and not making sure your bank account has the co-pay in it. I've personally refrained from going to my general physician because of coughs (one of which later turned out to be pneumonia) and I'm afraid of my eyesight ever deteriorating again because even with eyecare insurance my glasses and frames cost near $500 whenever I have to get a new set.Hero in a half shell said:
I am 26 since a few days ago. That means i had to start paying for my insurance from the start of this year on. Before that i never had to pay a doctor for treatment, or a pharmacist for medication. And i am very happy about this. Well i am a poor student and the 80 EUR a month do hurt a little, since i am of very good health it hurts even more sometimes.
Lets have a look what i would have needed to pay in the last 10 years:
A few short visits at the doc for a bad cold when i needed a day off.
One unpleasantshort visit for a *ahem* digestion problem.
I broke a toe at work.
I once woke up with my heart racing enormously, doc sent me to hospital ASAP (the racing was over after 2 hours) where they monitored me 24 hours and checked everything my cardiosystem had to offer (with the result of "holiday heart" syndrome = thats a fun way to say for a rare symptom of:.......a hangover. Yes i was totally healthy, just the amounts of wine at grandaunty's birthday were to blame.
Added to that are only my Dentists appointments that i have to do every 6 month (the insurance insists on that, if you arent checked up twice a year you have to pay for some of the treatments later, because he couldnt prevent damage, a good system in my opinion)
So nothing terrible.But what if i wasnt insured? If i had to PAY the doc for checking my broken toe, damn i wouldnt have gone to him. well its a toe, they basically dont do nothing to treat it, some painkillers and rest and its done. Most of the times. But it could have gone wrong, healed not completely or in a weird shape, which could become a source for chronical pain.
My funny story of 24 hours hospital for a hangover. Impossible to pay for. But what IF it wouldnt have been my stilldrunken heart dancing around in my chest , singing obscene songs? The worst things could have happened.
A bad cough i once hadnt treated for a week before i finally went to the doc nearly would have led to a infection of the heartmuscle if i had waited longer.
All these "little aches" and other nicnacs we here do not really think about could have dead serious results if not treated . There are still people dying of lunginfections because they fear the cost of the doctor and penecillin just to treat "a cold".Thats just a terrible waste of life in a so called civilised country.
Lets have a look what i would have needed to pay in the last 10 years:
A few short visits at the doc for a bad cold when i needed a day off.
One unpleasantshort visit for a *ahem* digestion problem.
I broke a toe at work.
I once woke up with my heart racing enormously, doc sent me to hospital ASAP (the racing was over after 2 hours) where they monitored me 24 hours and checked everything my cardiosystem had to offer (with the result of "holiday heart" syndrome = thats a fun way to say for a rare symptom of:.......a hangover. Yes i was totally healthy, just the amounts of wine at grandaunty's birthday were to blame.
Added to that are only my Dentists appointments that i have to do every 6 month (the insurance insists on that, if you arent checked up twice a year you have to pay for some of the treatments later, because he couldnt prevent damage, a good system in my opinion)
So nothing terrible.But what if i wasnt insured? If i had to PAY the doc for checking my broken toe, damn i wouldnt have gone to him. well its a toe, they basically dont do nothing to treat it, some painkillers and rest and its done. Most of the times. But it could have gone wrong, healed not completely or in a weird shape, which could become a source for chronical pain.
My funny story of 24 hours hospital for a hangover. Impossible to pay for. But what IF it wouldnt have been my stilldrunken heart dancing around in my chest , singing obscene songs? The worst things could have happened.
A bad cough i once hadnt treated for a week before i finally went to the doc nearly would have led to a infection of the heartmuscle if i had waited longer.
All these "little aches" and other nicnacs we here do not really think about could have dead serious results if not treated . There are still people dying of lunginfections because they fear the cost of the doctor and penecillin just to treat "a cold".Thats just a terrible waste of life in a so called civilised country.
It's because right now were in a pretty fucked up situation. Right now Obama is trying to get healthcare for everyone but unless the wealthy people here in america start paying slightly higher taxes. They are not going to do that because they believe that our country will become lazy and it will become the poor non-working people supported by the rich. To support their stance they have all the illegal immigrants who are having children so that they can get free food, shelter, and medical care.
So basically we can't even THINK of getting healthcare unless the rich agree to pay higher taxes or we ship all the illegal immigrants back to mexico. Right now we are pushing for the former.
So basically we can't even THINK of getting healthcare unless the rich agree to pay higher taxes or we ship all the illegal immigrants back to mexico. Right now we are pushing for the former.
Generally a decent insurance company will help pay for it, but not fully. It seemes to be our mentality here, as in take care of yourself. Plus universal health care means paying for somebody else, and would require a large portion of taxpayer dollars to support in an already poor economy.
The system is entirely broken.
My own little foray into hospital medicine was a 30-minute out-patient procedure that will cost me almost $5,600 when it's finally paid-off.
30 minutes. $5,600, all out-of-pocket. I can't afford insurance.
I tried to establish what my costs would be before going into that, and everyone involved was completely evasive. I could get NO answer from ANYONE, except that costs "depended on a variety of factors." That's it. Not even a ballpark estimate of what I was getting myself into. My bill was received un-itemized, just a dollar figure for "OP Surgery," and my attempts to get an itemized listing of costs was incredibly time-consuming, and beyond difficult. It's like the hospital didn't want me to find out what they were charging me for.
I know someone who said that their itemization of their hospital costs included $200 for the "administration of 2 (two) aspirin. $200 to be handed a cup of TWO ASPIRIN
Aside from the ridiculously inflated costs, health insurance prices are insanely high cost per month ($300-400/month) to get a deductible under $30,000, and it seems that more often than not, any attempts to actually make an insurance claim when you need them most, will be REJECTED anyway.
It's paying endlessly into a system that just turns around and denies you coverage when you actually need it.
No wonder insurance companies lobby to keep the status-quo. These guys are reaping huge profits on the backs of normal people, and the only idea the gov have agreed on to "fix" it is to make it MANDATED THAT EVERYONE BUY HEALTH INSURANCE?! wtf?
Every day I hear more and more and more that convinces me that the people we elect are in NO WAY interested in fulfilling the will of the people. They aim to fulfill only the profit motive of the biggest earners, and take their kickbacks in the form of "campaign financing" while the 99% of the rest of us serve as nothing more than vote fodder to be placated with words to ensure incumbency, so the cycle can continue.
--Yikes, guess I kind of launched into a rant, there.--
My own little foray into hospital medicine was a 30-minute out-patient procedure that will cost me almost $5,600 when it's finally paid-off.
30 minutes. $5,600, all out-of-pocket. I can't afford insurance.
I tried to establish what my costs would be before going into that, and everyone involved was completely evasive. I could get NO answer from ANYONE, except that costs "depended on a variety of factors." That's it. Not even a ballpark estimate of what I was getting myself into. My bill was received un-itemized, just a dollar figure for "OP Surgery," and my attempts to get an itemized listing of costs was incredibly time-consuming, and beyond difficult. It's like the hospital didn't want me to find out what they were charging me for.
I know someone who said that their itemization of their hospital costs included $200 for the "administration of 2 (two) aspirin. $200 to be handed a cup of TWO ASPIRIN
Aside from the ridiculously inflated costs, health insurance prices are insanely high cost per month ($300-400/month) to get a deductible under $30,000, and it seems that more often than not, any attempts to actually make an insurance claim when you need them most, will be REJECTED anyway.
It's paying endlessly into a system that just turns around and denies you coverage when you actually need it.
No wonder insurance companies lobby to keep the status-quo. These guys are reaping huge profits on the backs of normal people, and the only idea the gov have agreed on to "fix" it is to make it MANDATED THAT EVERYONE BUY HEALTH INSURANCE?! wtf?
Every day I hear more and more and more that convinces me that the people we elect are in NO WAY interested in fulfilling the will of the people. They aim to fulfill only the profit motive of the biggest earners, and take their kickbacks in the form of "campaign financing" while the 99% of the rest of us serve as nothing more than vote fodder to be placated with words to ensure incumbency, so the cycle can continue.
--Yikes, guess I kind of launched into a rant, there.--
Because Americans don't want to pay for system abusers, and are willing to let people die horrible deaths in their homes or live with crippling injuries for the rest of their lives as long as they aren't paying for that smoker's treatments.
Simple and easily enforced caveats are ignored (ie: no public healthcare for you if you smoke).
http://www.google.com/recaptcha/api/image?c=03AHJ_VuugedubM4OYKGcTajAAtLwCfelx9Hoy9UXFk7zhL2sef2k0iGedzRI390AT4pZuChwcqFZUrGVVyrAH3UBy5_xeOen62_fojT85ItPieU28tbpmwV74TbK-wOjiFiIOL_8cCMnHDJhXukyBnQqX-NeCvbEQaw
Simple and easily enforced caveats are ignored (ie: no public healthcare for you if you smoke).
http://www.google.com/recaptcha/api/image?c=03AHJ_VuugedubM4OYKGcTajAAtLwCfelx9Hoy9UXFk7zhL2sef2k0iGedzRI390AT4pZuChwcqFZUrGVVyrAH3UBy5_xeOen62_fojT85ItPieU28tbpmwV74TbK-wOjiFiIOL_8cCMnHDJhXukyBnQqX-NeCvbEQaw
actually this could only be true in cases that need some special equipment or specialist doctors, and only then, if the list is so long because everyone could "afford" the "free" operation. But this would mean that the lists now arent so long because a lot of people cant afford it now= they will die.StriderShinryu said:
SO quoted guy is prefering a system with more casulties as long as he could buy himself an expensive ticket to survival anytime?
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the us health system kinda sucks, I Mean its good to get fast service in but you will end up in debt forever if you dont have insurance and if what you need isnt covered then you will end up paying much more since you cant negotiate as well on your own as the insurance company can
I was really hoping the Obama plan would change things but it seems like the republican assholes managed to nerf allot of what was contained in it, not to mention that a number of states are suing to be able to completely ignore it
I was really hoping the Obama plan would change things but it seems like the republican assholes managed to nerf allot of what was contained in it, not to mention that a number of states are suing to be able to completely ignore it
You know, despite the horror stories you hear, a hospital cannot refuse treatment of an emergency on basis of payment, and if you cannot pay up front they will give you options to pay later or waive your bill if you can prove your emergency bill is unpayable. That being said, I'd rather be handed a bill today than wait six months in line at bare minimum for a hip replacement. Also, I'm surprised you support a system where the "rich" can also take advantage of government aid when they in no way need it.
You and I don't trust companies as far as we could throw them, and other people and I don't trust the government as far as we could throw it.elbrandino said:
Have you seen what the governments at the state and federal level are doing with such a blatantly necessary thing as balancing the budgets and raising the debt ceiling so that THE ENTIRE COUNTRY DOESN'T GO BANKRUPT.
And I'm sure I don't need to tell you how outright malicious companies can be towards the general populous, but just in case I do, I have three words, Robber Baron Era.
Well in America everything is a business, which is ok for the most part, really not ok when it includes politics, education and your health.
Scariest part is how the world looks at America as the shining beacon of progress, so in my country insurance companies are massively pushing for the health care system to fall out of government hands.
My aunt being a big wig in an insurance office only commented "you have no idea what shit is about to hit the fan".
Scariest part is how the world looks at America as the shining beacon of progress, so in my country insurance companies are massively pushing for the health care system to fall out of government hands.
My aunt being a big wig in an insurance office only commented "you have no idea what shit is about to hit the fan".
Not sure how often people can meet the proof requirement for the bill being "unpayable." Does that mean the bill has already bankrupted them? If so, isn't the relief of that debt a little late?Nieroshai said:
Don't get me wrong, I hate it. But I also have a hatred of capitalism in general, so figure that one out. Still, here in America (and yes, I am a resident) capitalism has been put up on this pedestal as "the best possible system", along with representative democracy. We're taught that they're great since we were kids, and the vast majority of us never stop to question whether that's actually true or not.
What you get, of course, is a system in which doctors are, essentially, able to hold your life ransom until you cough up the dough. That's the kind of situation you get when you think that you should have to pay to live.
Not that there aren't flaws in any system, including the socialist system. Probably one of the big problems people have here with socialism is in relation to food stamps. I honestly didn't used to think they were a big deal, and I used to think that they were a good thing that helped people in need. Then I started working at Wal-Mart as a cashier, and it became all too obvious just how many people were abusing the system. I'm not even kidding, most of the time I can guess when someone's going to pay with food stamps just by looking at their cart. I can guess not because the people using food stamps look like they need them (very few of them do), but because those carts tend to be full of soda, chips, and more meat than should be in any healthy diet.
My assumption is that in this case a lot of the fear that people have is that if we have a socialized healthcare system, it will be abused too. And they may not be wrong. There are a lot of people here who are more than happy to try and game the system.
I would love to see a socialized healthcare system set up here, but before that can happen, America needs to rethink how it regulates social care systems. They're very important to our health as a nation, but they're also too easy to abuse at the current time.
What you get, of course, is a system in which doctors are, essentially, able to hold your life ransom until you cough up the dough. That's the kind of situation you get when you think that you should have to pay to live.
Not that there aren't flaws in any system, including the socialist system. Probably one of the big problems people have here with socialism is in relation to food stamps. I honestly didn't used to think they were a big deal, and I used to think that they were a good thing that helped people in need. Then I started working at Wal-Mart as a cashier, and it became all too obvious just how many people were abusing the system. I'm not even kidding, most of the time I can guess when someone's going to pay with food stamps just by looking at their cart. I can guess not because the people using food stamps look like they need them (very few of them do), but because those carts tend to be full of soda, chips, and more meat than should be in any healthy diet.
My assumption is that in this case a lot of the fear that people have is that if we have a socialized healthcare system, it will be abused too. And they may not be wrong. There are a lot of people here who are more than happy to try and game the system.
I would love to see a socialized healthcare system set up here, but before that can happen, America needs to rethink how it regulates social care systems. They're very important to our health as a nation, but they're also too easy to abuse at the current time.
<sits in house in chair in front of computer listening to music, none of which would be possible if it wasn't for socialized Canadian Healthcare protecting me from tens of millions of dollars of debt, waiting for you to explain>EverythingIncredible said:
Actually, screw it. Nothing you say will ever make sense to me, because socialized healthcare saved my ass way too hard.
I think the American approach to healing the human body can be best conveyed in a single image. Or, more appropriately, a single man:
For those who don't know, Dr. Bob Kelso is the tightfisted Chief of Medicine of Sacred Heart, the hospital that Scrubs is set in. Think Mr. Krabs if he was a doctor, and also Satan.
Of course, batting for the other team is Dr. Perry Cox. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_Cox] And even then he's frequently shown to be a massive bastard.
Anyway, I live in the UK where you can either have crappy healthcare that the tax money pays for, or good healthcare that you pay for. I like it this way.
For those who don't know, Dr. Bob Kelso is the tightfisted Chief of Medicine of Sacred Heart, the hospital that Scrubs is set in. Think Mr. Krabs if he was a doctor, and also Satan.
Of course, batting for the other team is Dr. Perry Cox. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr_Cox] And even then he's frequently shown to be a massive bastard.
Anyway, I live in the UK where you can either have crappy healthcare that the tax money pays for, or good healthcare that you pay for. I like it this way.
How many people can argue that competently on their own? How many people would have to hire a lawyer to do that? Seems like a catch 22 to me.Nieroshai said: