USA health system... umm... what the hell?!

[headshotcatcher]

Well durr, you have to pick exactly what you want to be insured for, it's cheaper for you.

Unless something goes wrong, so you either pay TONS of money for private insurance or pay a small amount and then you get angry when you do sustain an injury..

So, let me get this straight... health insurance in America works perfectly so long as you don't... get... sick?!?

I'm just saying, only in America does the words 'pre-existing condition' mean you can't get it fixed. That's the biggest problem right there.

What I meant is this:
In other countries you HAVE to get pretty advanced health insurance, which means everyone pays more money, but that the health insurance in general is a little bit cheaper.

In the USA you don't HAVE to get health insurance and not many people have the expensive insurance, so most people just get either nothing or the cheapest one available (because the advanced one costs a lot more in the USA).

And to be fair if you live for 80 years with no health insurance you probably save more than 20k anyway, and that's the American mindset, isn't it?


And I didn't say I agreed, but a lot of things in the USA are like this. They have comparably very low taxes as well, but they get a lot less stuff like social security. It all fits perfectly in the mindset of 'If you're not rich it's your own damn fault' that is the American dream.

 

[feather240]

It's because right now were in a pretty fucked up situation. Right now Obama is trying to get healthcare for everyone but unless the wealthy people here in america start paying slightly higher taxes. They are not going to do that because they believe that our country will become lazy and it will become the poor non-working people supported by the rich. To support their stance they have all the illegal immigrants who are having children so that they can get free food, shelter, and medical care.

So basically we can't even THINK of getting healthcare unless the rich agree to pay higher taxes or we ship all the illegal immigrants back to mexico. Right now we are pushing for the former.

It kinda sucks when people take the money you earned though.

 

[Megabobster]

You know, from what's been mentioned about the UK health care system, I might just tell my friend to go there. See, he's diabetic. He can barely afford food because he has to pay $100+ for a small batch of insulin. I would go there too (I'm strangely prone to injuries), except I have a "hearing impediment" of sorts, and for some reason I can barely understand British people in person. Recordings, fine. But IRL? Nope.

EDIT: Instead of all these crazy laws about insurance, the government should allow people to be completely uninsured, and pay in full (car insurance is legally required, afaik). Instead of paying an insurance company, you just put $X in a bank account per month. When you need the money, you don't have to deal with complete BS, and you can just use the money.

 

[Blind Sight]

America is a corporatist state, quickly evolving in to a fascist state due to the government being married to business.

The real irony is the libertarians focus all of their attention on government welfare programs rather than the kind of high level corruption that would ultimately make any sort of moral state impossible, even in the least utopian of libertarian designs.

What are you talking about? The majority of American libertarian commentators focus on exactly that, high-level government corruption, imperialist foreign policy, the creation of corporatist monopolies and an over-regulated police state. Unless you're talking about economists like Walter Williams (who really only argues against the welfare state because he was raised in a slum and was able to pull himself out of it, which he feels is becoming harder to do as a result of welfare programs with good intentions but bad results). 'Pro-Liberty' individuals like Tom Woods are constantly arguing against government and business monopolies, and libertarian politicians like Gary Johnson (former governor of New Mexico) constantly axe regulatory bills that give big business an unfair advantage. Even just journalists like John Stossel are more focused on police brutality and government intervention in the economy then the welfare state. Exactly where are you getting your information?

I'm not going to make any big comments on the healthcare issue on this thread, just because I have had some severe problems with the Canadian system based on personal experience. My grandfather had a heart condition and was placed on a list for a major surgery to correct, but it was deemed that he didn't need it soon. Three months in he died of a major heart attack. It's because of that personal bias I choose to remain neutral on the subject, as it's clear that both systems have major problems.

 

[Whateveralot]

I live in The Netherlands where health insurance costs me about ? 100,- net. It's quite a lot for me and I don't need it right now, but I will probably need it at some point. The thing which bothers me the moest is that I have to pay the first 500 euro's of stuff myself. If I take some medicine for some reason (which I did a year ago), it set me back another ? 200,-, which I find rediculous because I still pay for my insurance itself and that's all that cost me since I had my own insurance when I turned 17, about 4 years ago.

The English system seems the best. A slightly higher tax and free health care based on not wasting money on stuff. Community service ftw!

 

[QuantumT]

Meh, the US might not have universal healthcare, but it also has lower taxes. Here's a hint. Use the money to get health insurance that doesn't suck.

(I'm aware that this is and oversimplification, but there's some truth to it as well)

 

[CounterReproductive]

As far as I can tell it seems that the majority of the Americvan people said I do not want to pay higher taxes for a free healthcare system because if I personally never have to go to hospital that will be a waste of my money. Why should my money be used to treat other people.

I know that not every American feels that way and the insurance companies and medical institutions that clevery spin and have been continually spinning that free healthcare is a bad thing, have vested interests in the frankly obscene amounts of money coming there way, but it seems to me that a country which likes to hold itself up as a shining example of democracy and which I can attest has some of the most generous, friendly and caring people in the world in it, wouldn't want to help each other out by all paying a few bucks a month.

 

[Im Phelpsing It]

"See, here in Australia, what with our evil communist government health system, we occasionally like to tell silly campfire horror stories about the state of health care in the US. Y'know, tales about that terrible place where you can get hit by a car and hospital staff will refuse to put you back together unless you throw wads of money or medical insurance forms at them."

That's false. Any self-respecting doctor would help the person, then deal with the insurance company as best they could. The problem with medicine here is that it's run as a business, by huge insurance firms looking to squeeze every penny out of the patient's pocket. If the doctor's had their way, we would have a health care system like Canada, the UK, or Australia.

 

[WhiteTiger225]

Blah BLAH BLAH! (Uneducated Rambling)

Well my good sir, you do not have to pay. Your credit score will diminish, but with a steady job, that won't matter!

A bit of research into the matter rather then reading Tabloids would help.

I currently sit on a 1,313 dollar amount owed for a catscan that I have been paying back in 20 dollar amounts once a month with no interest. I also have no Insurance. People just whine because they want it all done noooooooow *Whiney voice* and with little effort.

After a year of paying bits and pieces, my bill is down to 710, my credit score is climbing back up since I am paying my bills.

A hospital CAN NOT deny medical service under penalty of law.

But what would I know? Besides the Degrees required for a Psychologist, I am also working towards my backup job Choice of Lawyer. Pffft, what could law books possibly tell us my good sir?

 

[WhiteTiger225]

"See, here in Australia, what with our evil communist government health system, we occasionally like to tell silly campfire horror stories about the state of health care in the US. Y'know, tales about that terrible place where you can get hit by a car and hospital staff will refuse to put you back together unless you throw wads of money or medical insurance forms at them."

That's false. Any self-respecting doctor would help the person, then deal with the insurance company as best they could. The problem with medicine here is that it's run as a business, by huge insurance firms looking to squeeze every penny out of the patient's pocket. If the doctor's had their way, we would have a health care system like Canada, the UK, or Australia.

Whats funny is, this came from a guy in a Nation that planned to Ban SecondLife and oher M games because instead of make a R18 rating they would rather enforce the mostly fundamentalist christian views of the majority of Australlian government officials and keep their highest rating at 15 or up.

 

[Nyaliva]

A few points I'd like to add to the debate: At first I thought "Why don't insurance companies look for those pre-existing conditions that make you uninsurable BEFORE you join with them. They're basically lying to their customers, saying "Oh yeah, sure, we'll insure you", and then they find half their customers (or for some smarter insurance companies, MOST of their customers) are uninsurable. I'd consider that negligence. Then I realised why they do it, because they want your money. But isn't that fraud? Taking someone's money, claiming you'll help them out in times of need, and then ditching them because you didn't do your homework earlier? HOW IS THIS HAPPENNING!!!!

Another point, the main argument for anti-socialised health-care is that it'll head the USA down a slippery slope to socialism. Okay, first, the USA is the most anti-communist country in the world, I'm pretty sure they'd be able to stop themselves before it got that bad. Hell, Australia and England are doing alright! Second, wasn't it once said "Methinks the lady doth protest too much"? The degree to which Americans scream anti-socialist propoganda makes it seem as if their hiding something, either their secret want to be communist or the fact that communism isn't that bad. I'm not saying either is true, it's just that the USA needs to tone it down a bit otherwise red flags will be going up (Hah! Pun...). In actual fact, the more likely reason is that Americans (at least extremist Republicans) are just really loud and obnoxious.

 

[Continuity]

English System - Everything is free,

*Ahem* national insurance?

Medical care in the UK is far from free, its just that there is no extra charge for treatment, however we all pay taxes for the medical care, every penny that is spent on health in this country comes from tax payers pockets... So its not free, the cost is just spread around everyone, whether they need medical care or not.

Not that I'm saying this is a bad thing, just saying is all.

 

[Zhukov]

Blah BLAH BLAH! (Uneducated Rambling)

...

Wow.

You, my dear sir, are going to make an awesome lawyer.

 

[WhiteTiger225]

Blah BLAH BLAH! (Uneducated Rambling)

...

Wow.

You, my dear sir, are going to make an awesome lawyer.

Yes, a giggle at someone else's expense would surely show my capability at playing devil's advocate in ANY scenario. I see you learned political debate from the British Parlamint, yes?

(Please, if you wish to insult my capabilities at noticing trends in current lawmaking or my ability to debate strongly on a subject, at least keep it on topic by discussing WHY you feel so and HOW I am wrong)

PPS: I do not hate any particular government, or financial system as all have their flaws and merits. A Ruling Dictatorship can be amazing with a good man ruling, or completely awful.

 

[Aprilgold]

It reminds me of this one joke my friend used to say actually... He had a sick sense of humor to warn all.
" I go to the doctor.
Nurse, I have this blister on the back of my hand, its throbbing like crazy.
Oh its nothing, young man, now go home.
Just then it breaks open, revealing a hallowed hand and worms
BUT DOCTOR
I said it was nothing, now go home.
My hand falls off.
OH DEAR! We'll only help you if you have 90,000$ cash.
I call my insurance depo,
What was that, NO thats a pre existing condition because... WELL WE SAID SO!
Then I never saw it again..."

That pretty much sums up my feelings on this, it costs limbs to get ANYTHING done with this system. Insurance companies have many times just let people die over a surgery because they didn't want to toss their billions of dollars into the ring because the operation would cost a thousand. Its sad, and I live here, I'm just glad some insurance companies are actually DO THEIR FREAKING HEALTH CARING JOBS!

 

[funguy2121]

snip

Obama didn't really get much done. What he did manage to pass is very similar to what repeat Republican presidential candidate and business-ruining Mormon douchenozzle Mitt Romney passed in his own state. At the federal level, it means that in 2014 30 million more Americans will have health insurance, and it also eliminates "pre-existing condition," wherein your insurance company can decide not to cover you because something was wrong with you before you signed up with them after taking your money every month.

The best way that I can explain it is to tell you to look at the drug war. There's not really a conservative conspiracy behind it; it's just what happens when outdated, obsolete ideals run amok after we've let them fester because we didn't want to admit that they don't work any more. In America, we like to beat off to capitalism a bit too much - I'd be sincerely surprised to find that there wasn't a work of pornography out there with capitalism as a central theme.

Actually, that's not a bad idea. I need to make some cash, anywho...

 

[Zantos]

Did anyone see the thing when Obama said he wanted the American health system to be more like the British NHS? And some people opposing said "People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless."

Just, just take a minute on that one. Seriously.

Referencing! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/6017878/Stephen-Hawking-I-would-not-be-alive-without-the-NHS.html

 

[Firia]

Some months back there was talk of the system being changed under the Obama administration. Last I heard it was still in the early stages, it seemed to mostly consist of a lot of people running around yelling something about socialism. Did that end up going anywhere?

I am american, and I supported the changes Obama has put forward. Honestly, any change to the system right now is a good one. The FIRST thing Obamas health care plan prevented was insurance companies being able to deny people based on "preexisting conditions," ala the pink beans condition. I'm not entirely sure what state of condition that particular legal angle is, but I do know that the Republican party (the opposite party of Obama's) is dedicated to stopping everything Obama does. Good or not; benefiting the people or not; they only care about preventing him from doing anything. Obama has tried to negotiate with them, and I suspect his position on health care made it to the negotiating table...

Basically, we americans are boned. The medical field is highly corrupt, insurance companies are morally twisted, and the one man that wanted to change all that and got elected to do so is being stopped at every turn by a party that wants to keep things broken and corrupt.

Honestly, your campfire stories probably downplay the problem.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Well my good sir, you do not have to pay. Your credit score will diminish, but with a steady job, that won't matter!

A bit of research into the matter rather then reading Tabloids would help.

I currently sit on a 1,313 dollar amount owed for a catscan that I have been paying back in 20 dollar amounts once a month with no interest. I also have no Insurance. People just whine because they want it all done noooooooow *Whiney voice* and with little effort.

After a year of paying bits and pieces, my bill is down to 710, my credit score is climbing back up since I am paying my bills.

A hospital CAN NOT deny medical service under penalty of law.

But what would I know? Besides the Degrees required for a Psychologist, I am also working towards my backup job Choice of Lawyer. Pffft, what could law books possibly tell us my good sir?

It's hardly ideal, when you can just pay it off ahead of time with your taxes ala the U.K system.

 

[MasterOfHisOwnDomain]

Some of my family wanted to move to the USA, but having a disabled son, the amount of money they would have to pay for his constant necessary treatment and trips to hospital would bankrupt them. And they're well-off people. The NHS in the UK is far from perfect, but it does a great many things right.