Used Game Sales are a "Bigger Problem Than Piracy"

[TyrannicalDuck]

Thing is, his argument is reduced to a simple "null and void" in today's videogame industry, all thanks to DLC. I recently bought a game second hand, and I enjoyed it so much, I went and bought the DLC for it. Make a decent game with decent DLC, and people will buy the DLC, even with a secondhand copy of the game. Consumers are still providing a revenue stream, and the consumers still get to buy secondhand games. Everyone wins. If you're going to make a shitty game, you don't have the right to whine.

 

[rockingnic]

You do realize that games don't cost, to make, the same in the future than they do in the past. So before, games on consoles were $50, let's say it was $45 to make it and $5 profit margin. But with the technology today to keep up with the times (it's like updating a PC to the maximum each time something better comes out), the cost becomes (just for example, not saying it is) $55 and they make it $60 for a $5 profit margin. By that, they lose money and instead of having the rights to the game as an asset, it becomes a liability and they would close it immediately. I wouldn't be surprise if the cost for a single game and standard retail price, in the future, becomes $100, but in the future the value of a single dollar will drop, that's to be expected.

This makes... almost no sense. I don't mean that your premise is flawed, just that I can't work out what you're trying to say.

If I'm hearing you right, you're saying that each copy of a game costs $55 to produce. That makes sense if you're looking at physical goods, but when you're talking about software, there's no need for a physical item. Additionally, it only makes sense if you can't produce an infinite number of an item - it doesn't cost me appreciably more to sell 10,000 copies of a word document - perhaps a few cents for the bandwidth, and another few cents for payment processing. It DOES cost me substantially more if I need to sell 10,000 copies of a check-valve, because I need to spend money on materials, energy, and time (employees).

The cost includes, new software and hardware, salaries of EVERY person working on it. Any costs of testing (yes it does cost to test), advertising, bills. Bungie has a whole room with hundreds of 360s (both new and old) to test run the games 24/7, seeing any overheating or other performance problems so there's hardware (the hundreds of 360 including newly bought ones), bills (electricity), and more. Basically everything that is required to create and sell a game, even each time someone opens up a soda can so they have the caffeine and energy to keep working in the night so they can meet deadlines. Don't also forget the benefits each person has (like paid vacations) so someone can enjoy coming to work on the game each day. Sure if you love games enough, you wouldn't need any other incentive to work on it but people do need vacations every once in a while so they can be at their best.[/quote

That work is done with no profit, though. Only a promise of future profits. If the game sells exactly 0 copies, everyone still gets paid, because they've ALREADY been paid. They just might not get paid, or as much, in the future.

You also skipped my pricing argument completely, which was the entire point:

When you can produce an infinite number of something at only an incidental cost, you can dramatically increase profits simply by lowering your asking price. If you sell one copy of a game at $50, but you sell a dozen copies at $10, how is the lower price causing you a loss?

They can't produce an infinitely amount of games unless it put on download but that would put places like Gamestop and manufacturers out of business and with a loss of jobs which is the last thing people really want in current US economy. It's a loss if you sell something for less than what it cost to produce that's why if a game cost $50 in the past to buy but the cost to produce went above it to maybe $55 (because these "new-gen" console caused an increase in production with more sophisticated software and hardware), they would have to increase the price to KEEP a profit margin. And salary wise, if they sell 0 copies, the people would still be paid but the developer and maybe the publisher would be in high debt and out of business so they need incentives (like profit) to make good games. I'm not saying hiking the prices up is a good thing but they need to do it if the cost to produce becomes higher than previous price.

 

[JAY_RAD]

Well that's like loaning the game to a friend. He's not paying for it and he gets to play it; another form of piracy, right? But you can't really do anything about that can you. The game industry already makes enough money anyway. No need to charge gamers "Cap and Trade".

 

[Fearzone]

Game rentals are a "problem" only because most games take a weekend to finish and have little if any lasting replayability. It is a problem only for those who feel entitled to shove crapware down our throats at $60 for a 12 hour experience.

 

[Omnific One]

Make good games and people will preorder them/buy them new. It's the same with movies. If you make a good product, people will buy it immediately instead of waiting for the used game/DVD version. Learn consumer economics, please.

 

[LiquidGrape]

Industry:

Consumers are EVIL.

Consumers:

The industry are jerks.

 

[GL2814E]

Just wait till gaming companies try to license their games to kill the Used Game Industry...

I will probably stop playing games I cannot own myself.

 

[Flight]

If that's the case, perhaps they should consider lowering their often ridiculous prices. Yes, yes, "get a better job", but that's easier said than done in this economy. I generally prefer to buy new games after the price drops (and, of course, when I can afford to), but if I'm in the market for a game that hasn't been out for a few years, I'm generally going to go for the used copy.

 

[Ildecia]

Oh noes, we're not getting as much money as we want.

cant put it any better than that

The first day I have to pay for an activation fee for a used, offline, game is the day I stop gaming.

and this... if this idea of theirs comes to fruition... I would probably hang myself

 

[GL2814E]

Make good games and people will preorder them/buy them new. It's the same with movies. If you make a good product, people will buy it immediately instead of waiting for the used game/DVD version. Learn consumer economics, please.

But it is so much easier to ***** about the Used Game market then to be innovative. I agree with you, but they won't bother. Its easier to ***** and try to invent some new-fangled system/law to kill the 'competition.'

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Oh no, we aren't getting enough money because of the recession. Let's kill off the people who sell old titles back to the consumers for a lower price because they are obviously a threat to our billionaire empire.

Yeah, right.

I'm actually going to go to a local used game store to buy a fairly old title today. Thanks for making me feel like I'm making developers crying about it!

 

[ASnogarD]

*shrug* Dont want 2nd hand sales ? Make the game good enough to remain in a collection... I have my copy of HL 1 still, even if I could trade it... I wouldnt, same goes for the good games I bought...rest sold (none MP games) or trashed.

Games these days are so similiar you play them to see how they rendered the water effects, then ditch the game because its otherwise the exact same as its competition or even a prior version.
You cant rely on reviews (sorry Escapist) as the majority rely on ad revenue generated by... game publishers whose game they are reviewing.

People who harp on about how its the Devs that get the shaft if we dont buy, rubbish... its the fat cats like Bobby Kotick who get the revenue, the devs get a salary for the most part and a bonus if it really does good at launch... the trickle revenue of after launch sales goes mostly to the publishers.

... the devs get to work on a new sequel.

 

[Blimey]

So should I just leave my pants off? It seems I've been taking them off a lot lately to get ass-fucked by companies.

 

[RvLeshrac]

They can't produce an infinitely amount of games unless it put on download but that would put places like Gamestop and manufacturers out of business and with a loss of jobs which is the last thing people really want in current US economy. It's a loss if you sell something for less than what it cost to produce that's why if a game cost $50 in the past to buy but the cost to produce went above it to maybe $55 (because these "new-gen" console caused an increase in production with more sophisticated software and hardware), they would have to increase the price to KEEP a profit margin. And salary wise, if they sell 0 copies, the people would still be paid but the developer and maybe the publisher would be in high debt and out of business so they need incentives (like profit) to make good games. I'm not saying hiking the prices up is a good thing but they need to do it if the cost to produce becomes higher than previous price.

No, putting games up on services like Steam doesn't put retailers OR manufacturers out of business. Not everyone wants to buy a title online. Not everyone has the bandwidth to buy a title online. Some people just want the physical box.

Those people can pay more. Those of us willing to give up a little bit of packaging for a reduction in price should be able to do so.

 

[JoJo]

I have yet to hear Mercedes-Benz or Volkswagen complain about how used car sales are a danger to new car sales.

The person who thought that that brain fart was a thought worth expressing is kindly requested to remove his genes from the fucking pool.

I agree. Do furniture makers complain because of 2nd hand chair sales? No, of course not, every market has its own used section, games designers should just shut their mouths and get on with making games...

 

[WaywardHaymaker]

Well, then it's time to change the acronym DRM to mean... Destroy... R-used... Market.

Yeah. Put that it your pipe and smoke it, Big Gamestop.

 

[Asehujiko]

I find it both hilarious and sad that people here rage against used games just because some corporate dick complained that he couldn't charge people for products that he no longer owns.

 

[Jesus Phish]

My only problem with used games is how much shelf space they take up. Off the top of my head I can't think of a single game store in Dublin that has more unused games on their shelfs then used (not counting PC games).

I'm not a fan of used games.

 

[darkknight9]

"I understand why players do this, games are expensive and after a few weeks of playing you've either beaten it or got bored of it, so trading it back in to help pay for the next seems sensible when people are short of cash."

Oliver claimed that games can be traded as many as four times in their lifespan, effectively reducing developer and publisher royalties for some titles to a quarter of what they should be. "So while retail may be announcing a reasonable season, the money going back up the chain is a fraction of what it was only a few years ago," he said. "This is a much bigger problem than piracy on the main consoles."

Hey, I got an idea... make the games more difficult and incorporate some longevity and replay-ability into them instead of trying to pump them out like an animal in heat year round and maybe more folks will pay to get them initially instead of waiting for them to show up on the used racks...

Just a thought.