Using guns without having a trigger

[NickCaligo42]

EDIT: I KNOW PC SHOOTERS DON'T USE TRIGGERS. This is a console question. Think Dualshock controller or Xbox 360 controller. Sorry for the lack of clarification.

EDIT 2:
Let's clarify the question some, because it would seem I didn't think my phrasing through very thoroughly when I posted this...

First- and third-person shooters have, in the context of console gaming, trained us to want to use triggers or shoulder buttons on our controllers to use guns. It's technically more realistic and intuitive, and leaving gun control off the face buttons allows us to use the right control stick and shoot simultaneously, giving us more precise control. It's just natural to want to control firearms and ranged weaponry this way.

Here's what I've found in my studies as a designer: when you make those concessions in a game that you don't necessarily want to fit into a "shooter" archetype--like a platformer or an action-RPG--it inevitably comes to dominate the player's mindset as they play the game. Even if you don't intend for it to be a shooter, it will be assimilated. My question is, then, as to whether or not it's acceptable to NOT use triggers/shoulder buttons for ranged combat mechanics and when that is.

 

[Meggiepants]

Platformers often don't use triggers, even platformers that have a strong shooting mechanic, like the early Ratchet & Clank. It works for that game, but I would also be fine using a trigger and I think the newer one does. I can't remember.

And of course it's okay in old school games like Contra, because there just aren't that many buttons you have to use.

I would say it's okay not to use the trigger if you don't have the option to reload, toss grenades or similar type functions. If a game only requires the use of 4 buttons, I can easily see one of the buttons being used as opposed to the trigger.

But these days FPS games have gotten so complex I don't see how they could not use the trigger.

 

[Altorin]

why wouldn't you use the triggers?

In an FPS, what would the logical use of the triggers be if not to shoot?

 

[xHipaboo420x]

Every PC shooter.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying though; I think your post is saying that it wouldn't make sense to map 'Shoot' to anything a but a gamepad trigger, and what springs to mind is the fact that the Dual Shock doesn't have a trigger. So there's that.

 

[hopeneverdies]

Metroid Prime did pretty well for not using the triggers to fire. And playing old Medal of Honor games with the face buttons for firing was only slightly harder, but a lot more simplified.

 

[Billion Backs]

Every PC shooter.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying though; I think your post is saying that it wouldn't make sense to map 'Shoot' to anything a but a gamepad trigger, and what springs to mind is the fact that the Dual Shock doesn't have a trigger. So there's that.

Yeah, I'll have to go with that as well.

Every PC shooter indeed.

 

[fix-the-spade]

Quake 2 used X to fire on the PS1, you looked up/down with the shoulder buttons. It worked fine but ever since Goldeneye it's been obvious that face/stick movement and trigger firing just works best. It's not really a matter of acceptable control, you can do it other ways but that one is the best.

#Random thing, when Alien Resurrection came out (first game to use the dual stick layout) a lot of the reviews slated the controls for being different, difficult to master and allowing too much precision. Then two years later some big green dude with the initials MC used it and history was set...

 

[NickCaligo42]

Every PC shooter.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying though; I think your post is saying that it wouldn't make sense to map 'Shoot' to anything a but a gamepad trigger, and what springs to mind is the fact that the Dual Shock doesn't have a trigger. So there's that.

It does have shoulder buttons, which serve the same purpose.

why wouldn't you use the triggers?

In an FPS, what would the logical use of the triggers be if not to shoot?

I'm not talking about FPSes. In a console FPS that's arguably the best model. I'm thinking about non-shooters. I'm just saying that it seems like shooters are taking over the popular mindset.

 

[jmd102993]

it adds to the realism, personally i think it always makes more sense to map fire to the right trigger/ shoulder button

 

[automatron]

It's mainly using the triggers because it leaves you thumbs free to use buttons and the right analog stick while still firing/ attacking, whatever. (Sorry if this isn;t what you mean I'm a bit confused as to what you mean??)

 

[Timotei]

Last game I can think of that didn't run off the trigger system was Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire.

It's a very difficult game to get into playing only to switch to another.

 

[NickCaligo42]

It's mainly using the triggers because it leaves you thumbs free to use buttons and the right analog stick while still firing/ attacking, whatever. (Sorry if this isn;t what you mean I'm a bit confused as to what you mean??)

That's what I mean.

it adds to the realism, personally i think it always makes more sense to map fire to the right trigger/ shoulder button

Suppose you're not playing a realistic game, or necessarily one where ranged combat is the central mechanic.

 

[Marter]

If I remember correctly, the first Resistance game used R1 to shoot. I actually preferred using R1 before I got my RealTriggers, as the PS3's L2 & R2 buttons aren't all that good.

 

[NickCaligo42]

If I remember correctly, the first Resistance game used R1 to shoot. I actually preferred using R1 before I got my RealTriggers, as the PS3's L2 & R2 buttons aren't all that good.

Even with those things stuck on my controller I prefer to use R1. But it's the same diff. It's a shoulder button, removed from the face of the controller so as not to intrude on the player's ability to control the camera and shoot simultaneously. What I probably should be saying is: when is it appropriate to use the face buttons and not a trigger or some equivalent?

I'll edit that in.

 

[MinishArcticFox]

To me the trigger just seems natural thought using a face button instead of the trigger would probably work fine once I got used to it.

 

[Marter]

If I remember correctly, the first Resistance game used R1 to shoot. I actually preferred using R1 before I got my RealTriggers, as the PS3's L2 & R2 buttons aren't all that good.

Even with those things stuck on my controller I prefer to use R1. But it's the same diff. It's a shoulder button, removed from the face of the controller so as not to intrude on the player's ability to control the camera and shoot simultaneously. What I probably should be saying is: when is it appropriate to use the face buttons and not a trigger or some equivalent?

I'll edit that in.

In that case, I can't think of an FPS that used a face button to shoot. There are 2 games I can think of that had a face button shoot though.

Custom Robo had the "Gun" assigned to the B button, but it isn't a game I'd classify as a shooter.

A mini-game in FFX-2 called "Gunner's Gauntlet" had shoot as the X button, would that count?

 

[NickCaligo42]

In that case, I can't think of an FPS that used a face button to shoot. There are 2 games I can think of that had a face button shoot though.

Custom Robo had the "Gun" assigned to the B button, but it isn't a game I'd classify as a shooter.

A mini-game in FFX-2 called "Gunner's Gauntlet" had shoot as the X button, would that count?

Not talking about FPSes or third-person shooters, and I'm not looking for examples so much as wondering if you find this manner of control acceptable.

 

[Marter]

Not talking about FPSes or third-person shooters, and I'm not looking for examples so much as wondering if you find this manner of control acceptable.

To me, it only works if the game allows for it. The trigger buttons are easily accessible, and tend to work very well for shooting. It only really works if the game is really simplistic in nature, or the triggers are required for something else.

 

[TheTim]

I hate when games have the damn r1 button for shooting instead of r2 is complete retardation

 

[Plurralbles]

shoulder buttons break more easily than the padded, so I would prefer to have the requirement that they to have it able to be mapped to any button.

I do prefer the trigger though. It's just more close and seems to be more like firing.