I think this is the only bit I need to quote.
You don't know what the hell you're talking about, with any of this.
Utah creates 5 person commission to regulate one trans girl playing sports
- Thread starter TheMysteriousGX
- Start date
You don't know what the hell you're talking about, with any of this.
Sorry, it was this quote. I'll be more accurate next time
Which is a false statement in those states
But also, since this is where it started:
I'll repeat. The birth certificates law make sure that sports are being organised how the GOP wants it. Most places let people change their sex on their certificate and they can play sports. Not so in these states. This is an example of why the law matters, because they're banning people from sports as the gender they want
I think the point might be that they are not allowing people to play sports as the most appropriate sex, if they are removing any mechanism to allow for sex to change.
Couple random "I drive long distances for a living" thoughts:
1) Before that fated swim meet, transphobes were shouting from the rooftops about how Lia Thomas was going to sweep the medals, shatter the women's world records, and permanently destroy women's collegiate swimming...and then she got 5th in her first race, losing by almost 3 seconds to 4 different cis girls. And then the rhetoric immediately shifted to "well, he was just sandbagging", an unprovable, unfalsifiable claim which directly contradicts the "was bad at swimming so transed to win at sport" narrative, but whatever. Transphobes don't have consistent arguments rooted in facts.
2) A favored "compromise" option seems to be to have trans only sporting events. Sounds fair, right? All the trans girls can compete against each other, along with all the cis women who's natural testosterone is too high to count as women, all the trans men can be ignored as usual, win-win. Except...the full force of Utah's state government, including overriding a veto via super-majority, is being brought to bear on 3 trans boys and 1 trans girl.
You ever try and set up a sports league with 4 people?
1) Before that fated swim meet, transphobes were shouting from the rooftops about how Lia Thomas was going to sweep the medals, shatter the women's world records, and permanently destroy women's collegiate swimming...and then she got 5th in her first race, losing by almost 3 seconds to 4 different cis girls. And then the rhetoric immediately shifted to "well, he was just sandbagging", an unprovable, unfalsifiable claim which directly contradicts the "was bad at swimming so transed to win at sport" narrative, but whatever. Transphobes don't have consistent arguments rooted in facts.
2) A favored "compromise" option seems to be to have trans only sporting events. Sounds fair, right? All the trans girls can compete against each other, along with all the cis women who's natural testosterone is too high to count as women, all the trans men can be ignored as usual, win-win. Except...the full force of Utah's state government, including overriding a veto via super-majority, is being brought to bear on 3 trans boys and 1 trans girl.
You ever try and set up a sports league with 4 people?
She also won an event, which she didn't do racing against men. Her case alone isn't going to prove or disprove anything. It just seems like basic common sense that it would be difficult to reverse male biology that simply. Transgender women also will have the benefit of height as men are taller than women, which you obviously can't reverse.
There is little or no scientific research regarding the performance of elite transgender athletes, experts say. But some evidence suggests that residual strength and muscle mass advantages largely remain when people assigned as males at birth undergo testosterone suppression for a year.
Who Should Compete in Women’s Sports? There Are ‘Two Almost Irreconcilable Positions’ (Published 2020)
Some experts say inclusion and competitive fairness conflict as leaders consider how to regulate the athletic participation of transgender women.
NYT article up above.
That was in reference to the Idaho law. I said the problem with the Texas law is that trans men would have to compete with women.
Why would you let people change their sex? That doesn't make sense.
8% is what you call lowering infections significantly? Don't you all claim masks work even better than that in your science fiction world? Last I saw until just finding this new study was 16% or 12% effective a few months back. It's you that doesn't know what the hell you're talking about. Everyone at my job passed omicron around in January and 2 of the 8 got vaxxed November 2021.
vaccine effectiveness against symptomatic disease... after two BNT162b2 doses was 65.5% at 2 to 4 weeks, dropping to 8.8% at 25 or more weeks
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Vaccines aren't supposed to lower the rate of infection. They give your immune system instructions on how to fight back.
You're not a scientist. Nobody is buying your cosplay, no matter how arrogantly you proclaim yourself smarter-than-thou.
Why would you care if they could change it?
You've already stated it 'doesnt matter'. So why not let them?
Yeah, I think you've just proven Silvanus's point that you have no idea what you're talking about.
The discussion is on the ability of vaccines to reduce infection. You have however cited a paper on the effectiveness of vaccines to prevent symptoms in infected individuals, not its ability to prevent infections, for which you'd need a paper like:
Why does that make sense at all?
The mechanisms we're talking about are the mechanisms which create "male biology" in the first place. Everything that makes a person biologically male or female is either the product of sex hormones or part of the mechanism that produces sex hormones.
So if a man and a woman are the same height, does the man still have a height advantage because men are taller than women? Does the collective spirit of all men everywhere incarnate within him to make him taller on the inside?
Height is obviously an individual property not a collective feature of your sex. Professional women's basketball players tend to exceed the height of the average man, and even the tallest male basketball players currently active are still shorter than the world's tallest woman. There is nothing weird about a woman being taller than a man, or even taller than most men, it's just more unusual than the reverse, not physically impossible by any stretch of the imagination.
Again, Olympic guidelines are that AMAB people should receive hormone therapy for two years before competing in women's events at the Olympic level.
Lia Thomas - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
"Sure she came in second a bunch and set 5 school records as a dude, but this year she actually won a race while losing two others so she obviously has an advantage even though she's the same distance behind records as she used to be"
I dunno, maybe the rest of the women should be shooting at those records too. Losing to a trans women by 3 seconds doesn't mean much when you're also losing to Katie Ledecky by 13 seconds
The hilarious part about this statement is that the last time a trans woman MMA fighter had a bout, all the transphobes proceeded to prove "they can always tell" by going and yelling at her taller cis opponent
That's our phoenix, using little to no scientific evidence to hold deeply held beliefs.There is little or no scientific research regarding the performance of elite transgender athletes, experts say. But some evidence suggests that residual strength and muscle mass advantages largely remain when people assigned as males at birth undergo testosterone suppression for a year.
Who Should Compete in Women’s Sports? There Are ‘Two Almost Irreconcilable Positions’ (Published 2020)
Some experts say inclusion and competitive fairness conflict as leaders consider how to regulate the athletic participation of transgender women.www.nytimes.com
Do you even bloody read the things you post?
Edit: I also find it incredibly funny that not too long ago, it was you who insisted blind that vaccine effectiveness wouldn't fade over time.
Depending on various things, vaccines can lower infections greatly, unless you're talking completely technically in the aspect of they don't stop a pathogen from entering the body but they can almost completely stop symptomatic infections depending on various things obviously. The covid vaccines were billed as being 90+% effective at stopping infections way back, which now is nothing close to the truth. Yes, I'm not the one doing the science, just reading the data and listening to other scientists. So you're claiming what the CDC Director said is wrong that vaccines cannot prevent transmission?
I said there's reasons like a doctor needing to know someone's biological sex. I don't know why you'd want to change your birth certificate, it's was your sex at birth. It would be like if the birth certificate had my eye color on it and it changed as I grew up.
That paper does not include omicron. Also, did you not observe what omicron did? The CDC director even said vaccines cannot prevent transmission anymore: Our vaccines are working exceptionally well. They continue to work well for Delta with regard to sever illness and death. They prevent it. What they can’t do anymore is prevent transmission.
New York is one of the most vaccinated states in the US. Here's their infection curve from the start to now. Does this look like the vaccines are slowing the spread?
Sure, maybe if you did that from the start of a person's life. Taking away something you already have is a bit different. Again, we know so little about the human body every 10 years or so it's eggs are good, then eggs are bad, then eggs are good again. If we can't even determine which foods are good, we know how to completely remove all male physical advantage from someone?
Men are on average taller than women. If someone grew up a man, they are taller than they would have been if they were a woman. Almost all of the world's tallest women in history were that tall because of a disorder of some kind. Is MJ or Lebron or Kobe tall because of some disorder? Even the taller players like say Hakeem, Dikembe, Embiid, Kareem, Shaq are not tall because of some disorder.
And the Olympics put together a study proving trans athletes competing is completely fair?
It's easier to finish higher in your conference than nationally. Say your conference has 100 swimmers and national is 1,000 swimmers, thus it's easier to finish higher the more local/smaller the pool of players is. Finishing 2nd in your conference is much different than finishing 2nd nationally. When I was in high school I was the best bowler in my league, I doubt I'd fair as well just locally or state or nationally. Your comparing apples and oranges. Plus, like we both agreed IIRC, Lia isn't going to prove or disprove anything, she's just a single data point in essence. Her winning, even sweeping, the NCAA swimming events doesn't mean she had an unfair advantage nor does not winning prove it's fair either.Lia Thomas - Wikipedia
"Sure she came in second a bunch and set 5 school records as a dude, but this year she actually won a race while losing two others so she obviously has an advantage even though she's the same distance behind records as she used to be"
I dunno, maybe the rest of the women should be shooting at those records too. Losing to a trans women by 3 seconds doesn't mean much when you're also losing to Katie Ledecky by 13 seconds
That's our phoenix, using little to no scientific evidence to hold deeply held beliefs.
There's hardly any scientific evidence at all in the manner yet I'm holding onto beliefs and you're not somehow with equally little to no scientific evidence? When we didn't know the science on the earth revolving around the sun it was an equally valid belief that the earth rotated around the sun and that the sun rotated around the earth.
What did I read wrong? The CDC director is on record saying what I said as well.
I was too bullish on immunity preventing infections, I will admit for sure. Everyone else was as claiming it as well with the vaccines. However, there's not much evidence of protection fading against serious illness and deaths, which is the most important thing.
I don't think being ahead of the curve is useful. Trans-athletes is a self-limiting issue and right now it's more important to at least try to be accommodating. If (when) a national success emerges, sportswomen of that category will protest and bar them from competing. Other institutions then follow -- all the way up to the IOC.
Well, look at the paper. The way you've utilised the data here is a masterclass in cherry-picking.
1) we were talking about infection. The paper is specifically about symptomatic infection. Before you respond that symptomatic infection is the only kind that matters: we know for a fact that the asymptomatic can reinfect others, causing potential death/hospitalisation in others and prolonging the pandemic as a whole.
2) You quoted one of the 5 vaccines they studied. 3 of them performed significantly better.
3) the one you quoted only dropped to 8.8% after half a year. That's a huge period of significantly successful protection when we're talking about managing the spread of a pandemic.
4) The paper is specifically about the performance of the existing vaccines against Omicron, when the existing vaccines weren't designed to combat omicron. It was you that said the existing vaccines would work fine against future variants. This paper you're victoriously holding up now literally disproves a key argument you were pushing a short while ago!
In short: the vaccines work well at preventing infection on the variants for which they were designed. They work less well over time for Omicron, though still significantly well in the shorter term (less than 10 weeks).
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I'm moderately aware of the literature, which suggests vaccines may have a modest impact on transmission, with the omicron variant being probably least affected, although data is sparse on it. Nor is it a surprise that vaccines are not hugely effective at preventing spread - in a certain sense, they never have been for this sort of infection, the main aim is to reduce symptoms (and thus hospitalisations and deaths).
The point is really just that you cited a paper on a different topic.
Yes, we know. You don't know why you'd want to change. I'll repeat. I heard. YOU don't understand why people want to change their birth certificate. People have pointed this out many times in this thread, so we heard you.
I'm going to let you in on a little secret. People are allowed to have different opinion than you. You ARE NOT the population of the world. They don't copy they way you think. And you don't get to decide how they live. All you are doing is demanding everyone follow your personal ideology
Now, here is the best part. You're current knowledge isn't required. If you don't know, that's fine. You can leave whatever knowledge you have at the door. In fact, that is preferable. People HAVE told you why they want to change, including in this thread. All you have to do is listening
Now, if you actually mean, 'I don't like their reasons why they want to change their birth certificate', we can have a different conservation.
Lastly, your answer does not tackle why you want to ban people from changing their birth certificate. It just tells us why you don't want to do it to YOUR birth certificate. It's not related to anyone else
In what world do you live where a doctor will have access to your birth certificate and nothing else? I've literally never given a doctor a copy of my birth certificate
You're missing the bit where state laws would force your driver's license to have your birth eye color on it, despite it changing for most people.
I mean, we *do* know the value of eggs in a diet, it's just that Superfood Diet Culture goes through trends. You're attributing Wellness Culture's bullshit to scientific knowledge. On top of that, this is just the "it's not perfect so it's worthless" argument stapled to an impossible standard
Disorders are societally defined.
Well, they've been allowing them for over a decade now, they have very few takers, trans women have earned zero medals, and the only people those regulations have hurt thus far have been cis women, so...
Argument could be made that these rules trying to protect women's sport are only detrimental to cis women.
Neat.
In her freshman year, pre HRT, she was ranked 49th nationally in the 1650 and 96th nationally in the 500
It is not uncommon for Seniors to be faster than Freshman
I compared apples to apples to start, which was promptly ignored because I couldn't prove unicorns.
My beliefs don't require perfect scientific standards to justify. I'm well aware that current standards are likely not exactingly 100% fair, either giving trans *or* cis women an advantage.
Because my belief is that the napkin math checks out and that the single trans girl in the state of Utah isn't going to destroy women's sport by being allowed on the high school girl's basketball team. (Or whatever, I don't actually know what sport she plays)
Is more study required? Yes, absolutely. In general. For everything. Information is good and never perfect. But we will never *perfectly* compensate with HRT. In either direction. And that's not a good reason for a total ban
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You're the one making the claim that trans people somehow possess superpowers the rest of us don't. Burden of proof is on you, duder.
Equally valid? Is that why the Catholic church imprisoned people promoting heliocentrism?
I remember heights and hair colour being on a drivers license too
In my state, your DL no longer list any gender. Because having a gender on there does not help you be identified. In fact, it's likely to hinder it