Values regarding etiquette

[Ambi]

I think that some types of etiquette are pointless. Ideally, I wish everyone would just relax and not be ashamed of realizing they're walking the wrong way (happens to everyone... right? <_<) and just turn around right where they are, take the shortcut through the part sectioned off for the garden, sit on that wall, use whatever utensil they see practical to eat, and address people without formal titles. I even wish everyone would wear pajama-like clothes in public purely for comfort. Some people are so uptight and judgmental about what they consider to be rude that their excessive, whiny judgment ironically comes across as rude to me, even though pointing that out could seem like it's of the same nature. Why should we stress to make a few hyper-offended snobs happy?

I don't like the typical strict judgement of etiquette associated with snobbish circles, but despite this, I can't help but notice, with very slight annoyance, some things like when my friends won't stop talking at the movies or when the teacher's talking, or how one of them didn't seem to realise it might have seemed insensitive when she tried speaking English to people she didn't know in Japan. There is a difference between insensitivity and things that pertain to style alone. and I also notice when my mother runs her finger along the inside of her cappuccino cup and licks the chocolaty froth off her finger in public or wears some strange things, even though I believe in the principle that people should be free to do little things like that. I notice my own mental barriers/self-consciousness that doesn't allow me to do certain things around some people.

I also appreciate some gestures because they show respect. I will thank a guy when he holds a door open or something. Formal things just seem so neat and dignified, but like it's a game you're playing and getting through it all without an awkward blunder is like some kind of achievement. I just wish society was more focussed on ethical integrity than this concept of dignity tied so much to image and fashion. It kind of reminds me of The Dumb Bunnies. That was an awesome show.

I could try to work out motives and why these things exist and talk about cultural evolution but I think this is long enough already. I don't know if I sound pretentious or something.

tl;dr version: Some rules of etiquette aren't worth it. I wish etiquette wouldn't compromise comfort and fun. However, I still notice when people break a few etiquette rules and usually follow them. I wish everyone was more laid back.

Any thoughts on the topic in general?

 

[DuctTapeJedi]

The only rules of etiquette I observe are those related to not being a jerk to others, and (trying) to treat them how I'd want to be treated.

Other than that, fair game.

 

[rokkolpo]

The only thing I care about is people holding their knife and fork properly.
Also chew with your mouth shut.

(I rage when I hear people digesting their food whilst holding their fork like a shovel)

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

Most rules of etiquette aren't worth it. They're arbitrary rules invented by rich people who lived hundreds of years ago and many don't apply in the modern world. That said, due to the history of holding such things in high standing, those of the rules that are generally nice, such as holding a door open , should be maintained because they just make you a nicer person.

To briefly address the rules you mentioned:
I turn around, no shame in admitting you've made a mistake, especially in a strange area.
If there's a sign asking people to keep off the garden area, don't go on it, otherwise it's fair game.
As with gardens, walls are for leaning / sitting on. Unless there's a sign asking you not to.
For food, I'd agree with this:

The only thing I care about is people holding their knife and fork properly.
Also chew with your mouth shut.

I feel formal titles should be used when you first meet someone and until your relationship is at a level where informal names are appropriate as it shows respect for their position.
No way. Pyjamas are horrible. Jeans and a T-Shirt all the way!

 

[Choppaduel]

The right to free speech trumps the privilege not to be offended.

 

[Swaki]

i dont know, i love judging and hating people based on what they do and wear, but aslong as you dont look like you care too much about how you look i wont judge you, but most people do, i think the guys in suits are more relaxed than most other people, they dont have to be updated on changes in the style, they dont have to worry about what other might think about them, if they will fit in, the guys who have it the hardest are probably the hippies/hipsters/scensters/goth/punk and whatever else the kids are calling themselves to be different.

but my love for hatred aside, allot of etiquettes are awesome, dont be loud when around strangers, example; dont yell when on a bus, dont be disgusting in public, example ; dont pick your nose when in the cafeteria.

oh and about that comfort thing you mentioned, have you ever tried on a speedo, its very comfortable, the thing is comfortable things make other people uncomfortable.

 

[eatenbyagrue]

Nobody is telling you that you have to follow etiquette. Just don't expect people to have a good opinion of you.

See, the thing about good etiquette is that it is generally a mark of good breeding, like intelligence, education and good looks. While the former three are something you can get even though you're not in the upper or middle classes, good manners and proper decorum are still considered "upper class" and "well mannered". So yeah.

tl;dr - Sure, we'll tolerate lack of etiquette, but it won't stop us from thinking that you're crude and uneducated.

 

[Nimcha]

I quite like etiquette, but I also hold my fork in my right hand. :x

 

[GodofCider]

Etiquette is entirely a social construct. What is proper etiquette is only relevant to the particular culture in question. Outside of broad evolutionary constraints upon behavior, etiquette is that which one makes of it.

 

[UberNoodle]

I see these kinds of threads all the time. Maybe it's often teens wanting to rebel or change the world. Most of the time it boils down to one core sentiment - "I want to do whatever the hell I like, so why can't the world accomodate me?!" This is seen in all the "Why is [potentially offensive term] a taboo word?" or "Why can't we [do extremely selfish act] with impunity?", or the "this rules is 'old' so throw it out!".

Am I against good manners? Hell no. Good manners are what keep the world a nice and comfortable place to live in. If you intend to live in a world populated by yourself, then sure, do what you want. Most of the people campaigning for the "right" to throw empathy, decency and respect out the window, would prefer the a very one-sided result.

I'm not for some of the more anally retentive "rules" of society. Where I live, the culture says its bad manners to eat while walking. Fair enough. I DO eat while walking, but when I come across another person, I don't munch harder and give them a "what the f*** you gonna do about it?" look. I accept that they might not find my actions pleasant, and I stop. I resume eating when they're gone. Or whatever.

Maybe people who make these kinds of threads are going through their "I'm the king of the world" phase, but I hope they realise they didn't just "discover" the world. It's existed for a heck of a long time. Rules and taboos exist and probably have good reason, or at least a complicated history that can't be negotiated simply. Sure, make a thread about how much you'd like to do whatever you please, but I sure hope they know that society can't function that way.

We are free and we CAN do what we want, but should we not also respect others around us as much as possible and within reason? Where I live, the culture says that a person is free to believe in anything they want, and partake in whatever they want, but there is a TIME and PLACE of appropriacy for that. Western culture appears to have become so extreme in its egalitarianism that many people have forgotten that society is forged and maintained by people making ties, connections and getting along.