A lot of Mac users, myself included, don't buy our computers based on specs. We buy them because they run OSX, which is integrated with the hardware. Granted, you pay more than you would for a PC of comparative specs, but everything works without needing to screw around with complex stuff like BIOS. PCs are great if you know your components and how to get the best deal on a bunch that work together, but I don't have the time to put up with that. I've had one PC and within two years it was obsolete as a gaming platform and the monitor, motherboard and video card all needed replacing. My Mac on the other hand has been completely fine aside from a minor crack in the casing, and it's just so much easier to navigate than Windows' clunky interface.
I'd like to just pop in one last time to agree with this completely. The user experience provided by Apple's operating system makes me a happy camper all day long. Everything is designed to work together, hardware and software.
To each his own, y'know.
Hmm, I'm happy for Mac fans... but this doesn't make the platforms much more appealing:
It is still a locked down monopoly, Apple has absolute control over the OS, Hardware and Software which makes it inflexible and generally much more expensive than competition of the same specification. Sorry but a slick interface is not worth the 50% Apple-tax. Apple just charges too much for their products, an iPhone costs £400 in the UK... that's TWO Playstation 3's. No way is ANY phone worth that much, especially one that will be obsolete in 2-3 years.
I can easily upgrade and swap around components in my PC, the ideal graphics card, memory and CPU balancing processing power, cost, features and future-proofing.
Macs are not even very good gaming platforms in the first place, take the Top of the Line iMac 27-inch, it only has an ATI 4670 graphics card which is outperformed by a 8800GT ($100 graphics card) and only dual-core processor but the iMac retails for $1700 or £1380 (something wrong with THAT exchange rate) which is a VAST sum of money and good luck trying to upgrade the card when a new more demanding game comes out.
ATI 4670 is so weak it can't even play COD4 with the same detail settings as the console version at the iMac screen's native resolution, or at least not at an acceptable frame-rate.
I mean for $1700 you could get a ridiculously powerful gaming rig and throw in a massive HDTV as well, especially with the almost £1400 that Apple charges for the iMac 27-inch in the UK. I don't see what unique software or interface Macs have that are worth such gargantuan price-gouging. MacBook Pros are equally priced ridiculously high with low gaming performance.
Macs just seem to be for people that are VERY RICH and are not interested in "best bang for your buck" but rather paying (or getting daddy to pay) the highest price for the shiniest, slickest looking things that "celebrities" are toying with.
Okay, are you done with your little anti-Apple rant?
Obviously, nobody will buy a Mac purely for gaming. What this does mean, however, is that more developers view the Mac OS as a platform worthy of their time (most of my Apple-owning friends do have an interest in gaming, and are definitely going to utilize Steam - there will be sales). Once more people start noticing that Apple computers are viable for gaming, there will be more of an incentive for Apple to use graphics cards that are more suitable for games. This will then be used as a sales point for future Macs.
I won't really address your general anti-Apple shlock, as it doesn't belong in this thread, but I will say that Apple's design philosophies (hardware and software) appeal to me greatly. As a user, I find their OS comfortable and efficient to work with. As a prospective developer, I find that their meticulous planning and groundwork greatly benefits me and makes my life easier.
That's why I use their computers, and that's why -as a gamer- I'm excited about the coming of Steam.
Why will you refuse to address the very reasonable criticisms I have made about iMacs and MacBooks as them being almost universally underpowered and incredibly overpriced?
It is utterly asinine and disingenuous to dismiss real criticisms as prejudice by labelling it "Anti-Apple". That's like very much LIKE Fox-news dismissing the critics of the War in Iraq as "Anti-American".
Apple computers already make up a very small minority of home-computers, and a cursory examination shows an even higher proportion of Mac OS X based PCs have extremely underpowered Graphics cards compared to Windows based PCs.
Yes, I called a Mac a PC. I don't buy a single ounce of that Apple bullshit "They're a PC, and we're MACS!". PC stands for Personal Computer, all Macintosh Computers fit within that definition. I don't know why they shortened their names to "Mac", it just makes everything awkward, especially with plurals.
What I am trying to say is that Valve has served the ball into Apple's court but for Macs to become a REAL gaming platform where all the other developer will follow Valve, then Jobs is going to have to completely change his current strategy of milking his little niche of exorbitant amounts of money and open it up.
Valve is taking a risk other developers won't.
Macs are already a minority of PCs and judging by the (back)-catalogue of Apple's PCs they have sold a much higher proportion are critically underpowered compared to windows based PCs (just look at numbers of DirectX certified Graphics cards that have been sold). So developers will have to got to a lot of effort developing for Macs to a very small demographic.
Worse than that, I don't think the typical mac-owner is in any position to judge how well a game will play on their system. And that is not something for Apple to decide, it is a personal judgement based on preference in graphics fidelity, resolution, frame-rate and so on.
A lot of Mac users, myself included, don't buy our computers based on specs. We buy them because they run OSX, which is integrated with the hardware. Granted, you pay more than you would for a PC of comparative specs, but everything works without needing to screw around with complex stuff like BIOS. PCs are great if you know your components and how to get the best deal on a bunch that work together, but I don't have the time to put up with that. I've had one PC and within two years it was obsolete as a gaming platform and the monitor, motherboard and video card all needed replacing. My Mac on the other hand has been completely fine aside from a minor crack in the casing, and it's just so much easier to navigate than Windows' clunky interface.
I could link you to a few guides so once you know what you're doing you can get a faster pc and modify it to do whatever you want. On the other hand you stay with a mac and are forced to be reasonably pleased with your purchase, if only because you don't realise how much more powerful your computer could be. I'm not just talking about games by the way as anyone that wanted to play games could just get a console for better value and ease of use than a mac.
I could link you to a few guides so once you know what you're doing you can get a faster pc and modify it to do whatever you want. On the other hand you stay with a mac and are forced to be reasonably pleased with your purchase, if only because you don't realise how much more powerful your computer could be. I'm not just talking about games by the way as anyone that wanted to play games could just get a console for better value and ease of use than a mac.
Or, you know, maybe some people don't have to force themselves to be pleased with the purchase of a certain type of computer because they actually are pleased with it.
I could link you to a few guides so once you know what you're doing you can get a faster pc and modify it to do whatever you want. On the other hand you stay with a mac and are forced to be reasonably pleased with your purchase, if only because you don't realise how much more powerful your computer could be. I'm not just talking about games by the way as anyone that wanted to play games could just get a console for better value and ease of use than a mac.
Or, you know, maybe some people don't have to force themselves to be pleased with the purchase of a certain type of computer because they actually are pleased with it.
Pretty much what he said. And by the way, what makes you think I didn't already spend several months pouring over guides on the internet, reading PC magazines, trawling at computer fairs, all trying to put together a decent computer - and when that computer sucked after a few months I just decided it was better to pay for an integrated package. Not everyone does their own gardening or housekeeping; some people like to pay a little extra to have it taken care for themselves. It's the same with computers. I pay your so called "Apple Tax", and in return my computer works when I expect it to. As far as I'm concerned, that is the end.
I've been running steam through Wine for months- its been working beautifully for me, save wanting to chat while in-game.
What I'm hoping for is that they'll bring out controller compatibility- yes, I want to game on a macbook using a 360 controller.
I'm a freak, but I'm fine as I am.
I have a regular Macbook that I purchased last year. I have dual booted it with windows 7 and am capable of playing Team Fortress 2, Bioshock, Left 4 Dead 2, and pretty much any title on steam. Yes, you can game with Macs quite effectively.
Oh boy. I sure do love it when people try to justify paying so much for grossly inferior hardware. Maybe if you buy another iPedo you'll feel better about it.
As for Valve, I think they're being too optimistic. OR they're reaching into an untapped market and will be very successful because there's no competition. Depends entirely upon how much of the Steam library will be made compatible with Macs.
How exactly does it hurt you in any way that I choose to buy Apple products? Do I make the claim that they are 'better' than others? No, as I've stated many times I buy them because they suit me personally, and I'm familiar with their interface after years of use. I've no idea why this ridiculous fanboyism has spread from consoles to computers all of a sudden. Why can't we just accept that we're each allowed to choose what best works for us and not have to violently attack other people's choices. /end rant
A lot of Mac users, myself included, don't buy our computers based on specs. We buy them because they run OSX, which is integrated with the hardware. Granted, you pay more than you would for a PC of comparative specs, but everything works without needing to screw around with complex stuff like BIOS. PCs are great if you know your components and how to get the best deal on a bunch that work together, but I don't have the time to put up with that. I've had one PC and within two years it was obsolete as a gaming platform and the monitor, motherboard and video card all needed replacing. My Mac on the other hand has been completely fine aside from a minor crack in the casing, and it's just so much easier to navigate than Windows' clunky interface.
(underlined section): That's a pretty damning indictment about mac users, or at least for Mac becoming a potent gaming platform. There really are just so few Macs that can play modern games, at each machine's native resolution with adequate frame-rate.
Only the very latest and most expensive iMacs are any where near powerful enough for games from 3 years ago and most Macs out there are not the latest model but models from 3-5 years ago.
" but everything works without needing to screw around with complex stuff like BIOS."
Que? You don't need to touch the bios AT ALL in upgrading a PC, everything from changing out the GPU, RAM and hard drive. BIOS fiddling is only necessary for overclockers which is really unnecessary to get great gaming performance on a budget. Hell I flunked computing and I was able to build my own gaming PC and BIOS fiddlign consisted of inserting the OS-disc and letting it run
"I've had one PC and within two years it was obsolete as a gaming platform"
Wut? Obsolete? More obsolete for gaming than most Macs are when they come out of the box new?
Give me specs, man. I'll show where you went wrong.
Are you really serious about "2 years and obsolete" as in it could play games of 2006 but couldn't handle anything that came out in 2008? Even if you had gotten a 7800GT from 2005 that should be at least be able to match the performance of this generation of consoles for games like Call of Duty 4. I guarantee a Mac from 2005 wouldn't have been able to do anything.
Last I checked Macs make up 11% of the internet, so thriving? I'm not so sure about that. Then again considering the prices of Macs they probably can afford tons of games.
I have a regular Macbook that I purchased last year. I have dual booted it with windows 7 and am capable of playing Team Fortress 2, Bioshock, Left 4 Dead 2, and pretty much any title on steam. Yes, you can game with Macs quite effectively.
Right, so you paid for two operating systems. Isn't that a bit redundant, if you can use Windows for games with all the installation and so on, why go back to Mac OS?
And what kind of frame-rate did you get for said games and at what kind of resolution/settings?
Macs are made to be great computers. Developers choose not to put their games on Mac. It's not a matter of how it's made, it's a matter of choice on the part of the developers. About freaking time someone beyond Blizzard and Popcap figured that out: and it's Valve. Thank goodness it's them leading the long-awaited charge.
Some of us prefer Mac to Windows for reasons beyond gaming, and suffer the consequences put on by game developers. Until now, we've resorted to putting Windows, in all its flawed, clunky glory, on our Macs and dual-booting. There is a market, and Valve is finally letting it shine.
I, for one, can be counted as a Mac owner that is proud of that fact and excited for Valve's efforts.
Admittedly, I've played TF2 and L4D on my xbox and the community is better on PC if you don't have people to play with.
Plus, the Mac is a kind of PC and since Valve do primarily PC games... They should probably work on the PC's gimpy little brother.
Before I get flamed for being a Mac Troll, I think that if you want to do design, you buy a Mac. If you want to play games, you buy a PC... Or a console.
Kuhkren said:
I have a regular Macbook that I purchased last year. I have dual booted it with windows 7 and am capable of playing Team Fortress 2, Bioshock, Left 4 Dead 2, and pretty much any title on steam. Yes, you can game with Macs quite effectively.
See, you've got Windows duel booted, that's why you can play games on it
I'm happy to see Valve are branching out, but this is going to go one of two ways.
1) It's going to be a success and Gabe Newell can buy all the fried chicken his chunky butt desires
Or
2) It'll be a total, complete and utter train wreck and will have been a waste of time, money and hype.
I've been running steam through Wine for months- its been working beautifully for me, save wanting to chat while in-game.
What I'm hoping for is that they'll bring out controller compatibility- yes, I want to game on a macbook using a 360 controller.
I'm a freak, but I'm fine as I am.
There are free 360 drivers out there... Makes a lot of games easier to play, in my opinion. Mac has some great freeware out there, so if you just google "free mac 360 controller driver" you'll find what you're looking for.
Oh boy. I sure do love it when people try to justify paying so much for grossly inferior hardware. Maybe if you buy another iPedo you'll feel better about it.
As for Valve, I think they're being too optimistic. OR they're reaching into an untapped market and will be very successful because there's no competition. Depends entirely upon how much of the Steam library will be made compatible with Macs.
How exactly does it hurt you in any way that I choose to buy Apple products? Do I make the claim that they are 'better' than others? No, as I've stated many times I buy them because they suit me personally, and I'm familiar with their interface after years of use. I've no idea why this ridiculous fanboyism has spread from consoles to computers all of a sudden. Why can't we just accept that we're each allowed to choose what best works for us and not have to violently attack other people's choices. /end rant
In all fairness, Apple totally started it with the "I'm a Mac" ad campaign. That's what cemented the irreparable rift. Now it's "them" versus "us". Different people simply cannot just get along. Nothing against you personally.
Actually Apple technically started it with that 1984-esque Mac commercial. They've always started it.
And yet they're always the ones claiming to be victims. hmm. Point is that competition is one thing, being a dick like Apple is another. I don't really mind Macs too much in general, but what I do mind are the company practices plus the fact that 75% of the Mac owners I know are unbearably smug and condescending, as if they think they're superior for owning a Mac. That is a problem.
I am saving up for a laptop. On hearing the initial announcement I went and looked at the prices of MacBooks. And I was quite shocked that they were selling a £800 laptop with a 2.26 Ghz Core 2 Duo processor, 2 Gb of RAM and an integrated Nvidia 9400M graphics card. Want a dedicated graphics card? Not available: you'll have to buy a £1500 MacBook Pro.
You can get a better spec'd laptop for £600 these days. Perhaps even £500. I fail to see why I should pay £200 extra for OSX, but that's just me. [/rant]
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