"Valve rarely release games" - NONESENSE!

[Reggie Rock]

snip.

I understand what you're trying to say with the controls and game play having the same feel, Red Goblin. If you have played one game, then you pretty much know the basics for the others. Maybe I'm too easily pleased but I actually enjoy the control set up and don't mind the similarity. As far as story and atmosphere go, that's were the differences emerge. Also, I don't feel that you are being a troll but I don't agree that with your portrayal of Valve being shady or sinister. Perhaps you were being sensational or perhaps I've just drank too much of the Kool-Aid.

P.S. For someone that does not seem to enjoy Valve's games very much, how have you managed to play through most/all of the games being discussed? My playing history is littered with games I couldn't be bothered to continue...

I'm not trying to say valve is evil or anything, if it came across like that it's bad wording on my part. But the thing is, i genuinely enjoy Valves games. the portal series is fun, TF2 is still crazy and Half-life as really well written. I just think that valve is staying in a proverbial "safe zone" when making their games. I'd like to see them change things up.

 

[Reggie Rock]

TF2 is stylized i will agree, but the rest will not age very well at all. TF2 has been incredibly easy since F2P (one of the worst things to happen to the game) and the argument of tournament play is ridiculous. I shouldn't have to LOOK for a challenge, challenge should be there.

I was agreeing with most of what you'd said in this thread (though your tone is probably why people are reacting the way they are) until this part.

"Will not" age well? TF2 is 5 years old already, and is presently stronger than ever. It has already aged just fine, so saying it "will not" age well is already a failed argument.

And it's unfair to say that TF2 is "incredibly easy" because you're playing in pubs with F2Ps. You can't blame that on the game itself, because the fact that there are less experienced people playing is not a design flaw. "Challenge should be there" is a really dumb thing to say about a game whose challenge depends on the people playing. A game dies if new people aren't playing, and new people are going to be easy pickings for an experienced player. Also, since your own team with be full of inexperienced players as well, winning matches will still be difficult no matter how good you are.

I was referring to the art style of Valves OTHER games in that post. The part about TF2 being stylized was meant to mean that i think it IS going to age well.

I suppose i can agree with your second statement about challenge though. I play medic mostly though, so i hate everyone ever. If you don't stand still for a single goddamn second, i can't heal you. understand?

EDIT: Tournament play is still bad though

 

[ungothicdove]

snip.

I understand what you're trying to say with the controls and game play having the same feel, Red Goblin. If you have played one game, then you pretty much know the basics for the others. Maybe I'm too easily pleased but I actually enjoy the control set up and don't mind the similarity. As far as story and atmosphere go, that's were the differences emerge. Also, I don't feel that you are being a troll but I don't agree that with your portrayal of Valve being shady or sinister. Perhaps you were being sensational or perhaps I've just drank too much of the Kool-Aid.

P.S. For someone that does not seem to enjoy Valve's games very much, how have you managed to play through most/all of the games being discussed? My playing history is littered with games I couldn't be bothered to continue...

I'm not trying to say valve is evil or anything, if it came across like that it's bad wording on my part. But the thing is, i genuinely enjoy Valves games. the portal series is fun, TF2 is still crazy and Half-life as really well written. I just think that valve is staying in a proverbial "safe zone" when making their games. I'd like to see them change things up.

Ah, I see. Well, DOTA 2 is kind of a change up I think. I do really want HL3 but Valve going in some new directions could certainly make for some interesting games. I don't mind a steady diet of shooters since that's mostly what I play but a Valve RTS could be kinda cool...

Edit: I guess Dota 2 is an RTS but I was thinking more along the command and conquer lines.

 

[Reggie Rock]

Snip

DotA 2 is a change up, but (and this will ruffle some feathers) DotA isn't even really valves things. The first was a mod running on Warcraft 3's engine. It could still be great, but releasing a sequel to someone else's mod for some other companies game seems wierd.

 

[The Youth Counselor]

Another thing I let VALVe slide for is the fact that they are a single studio which as of now have only 293 listed employees.

293 people have to run the massive publishing, digital distrubution, and communication platform known as Steam. 293 people to work on and release updates for the 23 games they have released so far (HL1 and Ricochet still received updates as of last year.) 293 people crunching on the 4+ confirmed titles under development.

As well as write for and update blogs, design merch, answer emails and all the other things they do.

Compare their numbers with a studio like Eidos Montreal which has 350 employees and took 4 years to ship a single game. Or Zynga who employs 3000 people and sticks to simple casual games.

For one of the prememinent publishers and AAA game developers that's a lot of work per employee.

 

[shintakie10]

Snip

DotA 2 is a change up, but (and this will ruffle some feathers) DotA isn't even really valves things. The first was a mod running on Warcraft 3's engine. It could still be great, but releasing a sequel to someone else's mod for some other companies game seems wierd.

To be fair, the majority of the games that Valve releases are basically just that, just minus the other companies game bit. They start out with someones decently made mod and turn it into their own game then charge for it.

Not to say its a bad system. I doubt any of the mods they turned into games would have been as great as they turned out to be once Valve got their hands on it, but you can't discount the fact that they come in with the work half done already. Heck, sometimes they just hire the people who were workin on it before and have them finish it in their spare time (Alien Swarm comes to mind).

 

[mad825]

Edit: I would also like to point out that the next installment in the Half Life series hasn't really been in development that long.

Deus Ex Human Revolution - 2011, Deus Ex Invisible War - 2003; FOR EXAMPLE

What? That's not even an example. How can you compare DXIW to DXHR? DXIW was a planned sequel by ion storm while DXHR is a revival of the series by Eidos.

If it wasn't SE wanting more money in their pockets by exploiting IPs that they own from the Eidos buyout then the Deus ex franchise would have been left to die.

CS: Global Offensive - 2012 - I actually don't know much about it than the name. I would assume it's bringing something new rather than just another spin off of CS

Honestly, it feels like a polished version of CSS...

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Valve release plenty of games. They just make fuck all of them. If it wasn't for modders and outside people doing the work, Valve would be a one trick pony, long out of business and forgotten about.

 

[repeating integers]

Valve release plenty of games. They just make fuck all of them. If it wasn't for modders and outside people doing the work, Valve would be a one trick pony, long out of business and forgotten about.

Well, there's also Steam.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Valve release plenty of games. They just make fuck all of them. If it wasn't for modders and outside people doing the work, Valve would be a one trick pony, long out of business and forgotten about.

Well, there's also Steam.

Steam is the bees knees. But I highly doubt they'd have been around long enough to make Steam the hit it is (or get it out there at all) if it wasn't for people modding their games for them.

In my opinion, Valve is a good, but highly overrated and very lucky company.

The guy said they claimed all three episodes would be out in a year. I said no one ever said that, and that people were increasingly making shit up to do with the episodes just to get themselves into a tizzy. I never said three episodes weren't announced, three episodes weren't planned, whatever the fuck else you think your little non-sequitur is on about.

To be precise he said it would be a "year or so". year and a half qualifies for that, I think.

And it's a fucking expansion pack. A better comparison (over AC, since clearly you need this beaten into your head) would be Shivering Isles and Oblivion.

Well, hit harder

it's not being one or the other, it's actually both

I didn't say it wasn't an expansion. You seem to need that explained better. Expansion and mod are not exclusive to one another.

Lol. It's kind of hard to take someone as an adult and attempt conversation when they start a rebuttal with "HERPADERP," huh. :/

 

[Sylveria]

The problem i encounter with Valve? What do TF2, portal, half-life, counter strike and left 4 dead have in common. THEY ARE THE SAME DAMN GAME WITH 1 OR 2 DIFFERENCES.

Calling some severe bullshit on this.

A co-op/competitive zombie game, a competitive objective-based multiplayer shooter, a first person physics-based puzzle game and a single player shooter with a story are the same damn game.

Bull.

In other news, Mirror's Edge and Doom are the same because they're both first person games with guns in them.

Amnesia is totally a clone of Super Noah's Ark 3d.

 

[Wintermoot]

some of them started as mods or where produced by other companies like Blue Shift and Opposing force where made by Gearbox not valve

 

[Sandjube]

It's not possible to have more than 5 replies if it isn't a fuck-stupid argument on these forums, is it?

OT: Valve games are released just as much as other, not having Half-life 3 =/= no valve games, AND it's better to have a game every 2 or 3 years than have the EXACT same CoD game every year.

 

[TheDutch3Z]

How the fuck is a 50 dollar game not a game anymore when it was a mod at some point? No you don't invent the rules. Counter strike is a game, day of defeat is a game. The episodes ARE games. Just like asscreed 2.5 and 2.75.

Not to rain on your parade good sir, but a lot of those mods were the exact same game until Valve made steam. TFC was a full conversion mod from UT in 1999 and didn't get a price tag until 2003 when steam launched. same game thou.

Actually first was the TF 1 mod for quake in 1996,then after release of half life 1 the creators of tf1 created TFC on GoldSourse in 1998.

Editamn ninja'd

 

[EternalFacepalm]

Jesus Christ, there is no reasoning with Valvedrones.

Arguably, those disagreeing with you would say the same.

"Miles different in their play style" BULL. SHIT. All of these games follow the same control scheme, physics and perspective.

Stop, stop, stop. You're complaining about the control scheme being intuitive, because it isn't switched around, now? Do you want them to rewrite their physics engine? I don't think you realise just how difficult creating working physics is. Also, you basically just agreed with me here, regarding you not wanting new gameplay elements, but a new perspective (and physics, but what the fuck?), so that's all good.

The characters all control the EXACT SAME WAY (again, TF2 has speed difference)

That can be attributed to how you expect a certain normal speed. It's intuitive to have a certain speed, although relatively small changes still works. How would it work if in one Half-Life game, you're super-fast, but in another, you're a snail?

and the only defining aspects of each is the map, the format and the story. Jesus if CoD was made by Valve you'd all be applauding how diverse each installment is.

No.

But modders get supported so it's the best

If they were "supporting" the mod community, they would be allowing the modder to mod and perhaps even make some dosh. Supporting isn't taking the Mod, getting a team to work on it and then slapping a huge "WE MADE DIS" sign on it, with or without the modders approval.

Recite one instance where they did it without the modders' approval, please. Aside from that, I really can't remember that many engines that allowed you to sell your game without a license. There's Unity, but aside from that, I can't remember anything. Anyway, you can sell Source games. [http://source.valvesoftware.com/licensing.php]

Why is it that people feel it necessary to defend such bad practices? Why is this the best, but the worst when anyone else does it? Why is DRM the worst thing in existence but steam is a godsend? It's Because the valve defense force is a hypocritical bunch.

Because they're not bad practices, and I prefer Steam because it's neat, tidy and I can't remember an instance where it didn't serve me well. There are also daily sales, along with Midweek Madness and Weekend Madness. Compared to other DRM, that's pretty good.

 

[Patrick Buck]

Mods or expansion packs. Not really different games. So... :/

 

[Conza]

Your list

Half Life - 1998

Team Fortress Classic - 1999

Half Life Opposing Force - 1999

Deathmatch Classic - 2000

Ricochet - 2000

Counter Strike - 2000

Half Life Blue Shift - 2001

Day of Defeat - 2003

CS: Condition Zero - 2004

Half Life Source - 2004

CS: Source - 2004

Half Life 2 - 2004

Half Life 2 Deathmatch - 2004

Half Life Deathmatch Source - 2005

Day of Defeat Source - 2005

Half Life 2 Episode 1 - 2006

Half Life 2 Episode 2 - 2007

Portal - 2007

Team Fortress 2 - 2007

Left 4 Dead - 2008

Left 4 Dead 2 - 2009

Alien Swarm - 2010

Portal 2 - 2011

Dota 2 - 2012

CS: Global Offensive - 2012

Half Life 3 - 2098

Now let me tell you how many are considered games, just by Wikipedia, I'll quote wiki each time

Half Life, 1998 - "Half-Life is a science fiction first-person shooter video game" Game:1

Team Fortress Classic, 1999 - "Team Fortress Classic was originally released for Windows on April 7, 1999 as a modification to Half-Life." Game:1 Mod:1

Half Life Opposing Force, 1999 - "Half-Life: Opposing Force is an expansion pack for Valve Software's science fiction first-person shooter video game Half-Life." Game:1 EP:1 Mod:1

Deathmatch Classic, 2000 - "DMC is a multiplayer video game developed by Valve as a tribute to Quake." Game:2 EP:1 Mod:1

Ricochet, 2000 - "Ricochet is a multiplayer mod of the popular first-person shooter Half-Life" Game:2 EP:1 Mod:2

Counter Strike, 2000 - "Counter-Strike...is a tactical first-person shooter video game" Game:3 EP:1 Mod:2

Half Life Blue Shift, 2001 - "Half-Life: Blue Shift is an expansion pack for Valve Software's science fiction first-person shooter video game Half-Life" Game:3 EP:2 Mod:2

Day of Defeat, 2003 - "Day of Defeat is a team-based multiplayer World War II first-person shooter video game" Game:4 EP:2 Mod:2

CS: Condition Zero, 2004 - "Counter-Strike: Condition Zero...is a multiplayer video game" Game:5 EP:2 Mod:2

Half Life Source, 2004 - "Half-Life: Source is a straight port"? Game:6 EP:2 Mod:2

CS: Source, 2004 - "Counter-Strike: Source...is an FPS video game" Game:7 EP:2 Mod:2

Half Life 2, 2004 - "Half-Life 2...is a first-person shooter video game" Game:8 EP:2 Mod:2

Half Life 2 Deathmatch, 2004 - "Half-Life 2: Deathmatch is a multiplayer first-person shooter video game" Game:9 EP:2 Mod:2

Half Life Deathmatch Source, 2005 - "You may create the page "Half-Life Deathmatch Source", but consider checking the search results below to see whether the topic is already covered." Game:9 EP:2 Mod:3

Day of Defeat Source, 2005 - "Day of Defeat: Source is a team-based first-person shooter multiplayer video game" Game:10 EP:2 Mod:3

Half Life 2 Episode 1 - 2006 *Gives up quoting*

Half Life 2 Episode 2 - 2007

Portal - 2007 Game:11 EP:4 Mod:3

Team Fortress 2 - 2007 Game:12 EP:4 Mod:3

Left 4 Dead - 2008 Game:14 EP:4 Mod:3

Left 4 Dead 2 - 2009 Game:15 EP:4 Mod:3

Alien Swarm - 2010 Game:16 EP:4 Mod:3

Portal 2 - 2011 Game:17 EP:4 Mod:3

Dota 2 - 2012 Game:17 EP:4 Mod:3 (not released)

CS: Global Offensive - 2012 Game:17 EP:4 Mod:3 (not released)

Wow, more than I expected, I wouldn't consider Counter-Strike (except CZ) or Team Fortress to be self deserving games, but Wiki does so I'll leave it at that, ~17 with them, otherwise I'd only count 5 as games, and 11 of those games as Mods/EPS.

So really, its HL, HL2, Portal, Portal 2...Alien Swarm... The rest are all derivitive/remakes/ports/expansions, ect.

 

[Moth_Monk]

You see children the way I see it, it doesn't matter whether it's a game or a mod or an expansion or a published title, it is still content from Valve every one to two years.



Captcha: Strike a match

^ Indeed

 

[DoPo]

You see children the way I see it, it doesn't matter whether it's a game or a mod or an expansion or a published title, it is still content from Valve every one to two years.



Captcha: Strike a match

^ Indeed

You still talked about games - the usual way people use it (and what you tried to disprove), it means HL 1+2, Portal 1+2 and so on, not just releases. Seems pedantic but the words have a meaning for a reason - you misunderstood and misused that one, thus showing why that the meaning matters.

 

[Moth_Monk]

You see children the way I see it, it doesn't matter whether it's a game or a mod or an expansion or a published title, it is still content from Valve every one to two years.



Captcha: Strike a match

^ Indeed

You still talked about games - the usual way people use it (and what you tried to disprove), it means HL 1+2, Portal 1+2 and so on, not just releases. Seems pedantic but the words have a meaning for a reason - you misunderstood and misused that one, thus showing why that the meaning matters.

I used the term "game" in the OP casually because I (foolishly) did not expect a 3 page argument over semantics and what is really a fine example of Sorites Paradox

The definition of a "game" is a multimedia product that the user can interact with; in the context of this discussion.