Valve Sued by Australia's Consumer Watchdog Over Refund Policy

[Steven Bogos]

Valve Sued by Australia's Consumer Watchdog Over Refund Policy

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission says that Valve's "no refunds" policy is a breach of Australian consumer law.

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) is Australia's consumer watchdog, keeping an eye on businesses and making sure that they comply with Australia's consumer law. Now, they've set their sights on Valve, specifically, its Steam platform, and its rather harsh "no refunds under any circumstances" policy. The ACCC says that the policy is actually a breach of Australian consumer law, and is taking Valve to court over it.

The ACCC claims Valve "made false or misleading representations to Australian customers of Steam", and that "it is a breach of the Australian Consumer Law for businesses to state that they do not give refunds under any circumstances".

"The Australian Consumer Law applies to any business providing goods or services within Australia," explained ACCC Chairman Rod Sims. "Valve may be an American based company with no physical presence in Australia, but it is carrying on business in Australia by selling to Australian consumers, who are protected by the Australian Consumer Law."

Under the Australian Consumer Law, consumers can insist on a refund or replacement at their option if a product has a major fault. Indeed, this firm refund stance has allowed Australians to get refunds for faulty video games [http://www.choice.com.au/blog/2013/april/how-to-get-a-refund-on-sim-city.aspx] that did not perform as advertised.

In response to the suit, Valve stated: "We are making every effort to cooperate with the Australian officials on this matter, while continuing to provide Steam services to our customers across the world, including Australian gamers."

A date for the first hearing is set for 7 October 2014 at the Federal Court in Sydney before Justice Jagot.

Source: Kotaku AU [https://www.accc.gov.au/media-release/full-steam-ahead-accc-institutes-proceedings-against-valve-for-making-alleged-misleading-consumer-guarantee-representations]

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[RicoADF]

Heh I was wondering when this would come to a head, ACCC was bound to turn their sights on Steam sooner or later. I figured they hadn't as Valve would have known and just given Australian customers the refund, guess they said no to the wrong person who reported them. About time to be honest, heck even EA complies with this law :-/

 

[Erttheking]

Christ I wish we had something like this in the States. Well, hope the ACCC wins this one.

 

[RicoADF]

Christ I wish we had something like this in the States. Well, hope the ACCC wins this one.

Google and Apple stores all comply, they will 'win' as this is already set in law, their basically giving Valve a chance to accept they stuffed up and fix it. If they don't they will be fined/sued.

 

[Erttheking]

Christ I wish we had something like this in the States. Well, hope the ACCC wins this one.

Google and Apple stores all comply, they will 'win' as this is already set in law, their basically giving Valve a chance to accept they stuffed up and fix it. If they don't they will be fined/sued.

...If one was to move to Australia from the United States, where would you recommend he go?

 

[RicoADF]

...If one was to move to Australia from the United States, where would you recommend he go?

Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne are the largest cities, they have the best employment opportunities and ofcourse the downsides of large cities of being over crowded, expensive etc. Their also the most 'Americanized' which may make it easier for you to adapt to.

Perth and Adelaide are medium sized cities, their more like the traditional Australian towns with people being more polite, more likely to help eachother out and are cheaper places to live. The downside is employment isn't as easy to find however my friends who have moved here have found work so it's an option, personally I'm looking at Adelaide as a possible option to move to.

Darwin and Hobart are smaller cities which are on the 2 extremes, Darwin is in the north and quite hot while Hobart is in the south and cold. Hobart is often said to be the 'retirement' city as it's a quite and beautiful place but with few employment opportunities.

Canberra is our capital and the newest city, founded in 1913. It's laws are quite relaxed and the city is beautiful however being a town built for government the employment opportunities aren't the best (or so I've heard, haven't looked myself).

Guess it depends what your after.

 

[shintakie10]

Bout fuckin time. Hope they get shafted over this and are forced to actually get a refund policy.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

Christ I wish we had something like this in the States. Well, hope the ACCC wins this one.

Google and Apple stores all comply, they will 'win' as this is already set in law, their basically giving Valve a chance to accept they stuffed up and fix it. If they don't they will be fined/sued.

...If one was to move to Australia from the United States, where would you recommend he go?

I wouldn't move. Australia is currently doing everything it can to be more like the US.

The only reason the ACCC are getting stuck into Valve is because the games industry wields zero political clout in Australia. That's why they're a free kick for the pollies all the time. On the other hand, the banking and finance industries and the supermarket oligarchy rip everyone off blind and get away with it because they're untouchable. The ACCC only gets to chase them for the most obviously ridiculous stuff, like claiming that bread baked 6 months ago in Ireland is 'baked today, sold today'.

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

Eh? I thought this stopped being an issue a while. I recently noticed that one of the Support FAQs regarding refunds was altered to say "Unless required by local law, we don't give refunds", as opposed to the previous flat-out "no".

That said, I'm glad that Valve has to specifically state that they're obligated to give people in countries that give a shit about consumer rights a refund, instead of leaving it to the savvy consumer to find out for themselves that a TOS simply doesn't trump local law (then again, there's a surprising amount of complete morons to actually believe the complete opposite)

 

[Infernal Lawyer]

Christ I wish we had something like this in the States. Well, hope the ACCC wins this one.

Didn't work when the Germans tried it... and believe it or not.. Steam already gives refunds...when the product is genuinely unplayable... but not meeting expectations is a nebulous term. If the game is unplayable or misleadingly advertized.. refund, otherwise... yeah.. it's on ye.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the Germans where asking for the right to RESELL their games to other users. That's another issue entirely from getting a refund.

 

[uguito-93]

Perth and Adelaide are medium sized cities, their more like the traditional Australian towns with people being more polite, more likely to help eachother out and are cheaper places to live.

Honestly, as someone who lives here, Perth is probably one of the most expensive cities to live in almost anywhere. Everything from food to retail to housing has been steadily getting more and more expensive over the years. Right now alcohol insane with most 6-packs costing you $15-$20

 

[Keoul]

...If one was to move to Australia from the United States, where would you recommend he go?

Sydney or Melbourne, At least for Sydney it's easier to get to and from other places. Though Melbourne was voted one of the best cities in the world so there's that going for it.

OT: Eh I like Steam and haven't ever had any problems with them so this court case makes me a tad sad but I understand what they're trying to do so I suppose it's okay. Would be interesting to see how this turns out though I do worry about glitches in the system and this gets implemented, can someone refund a gift? What about refunding a game they got for free? So many questions.

 

[RicoADF]

I wouldn't move. Australia is currently doing everything it can to be more like the US.

The only reason the ACCC are getting stuck into Valve is because the games industry wields zero political clout in Australia. That's why they're a free kick for the pollies all the time. On the other hand, the banking and finance industries and the supermarket oligarchy rip everyone off blind and get away with it because they're untouchable. The ACCC only gets to chase them for the most obviously ridiculous stuff, like claiming that bread baked 6 months ago in Ireland is 'baked today, sold today'.

Yes well the librals do love to try and turn us into the US, hopefully they won't survive the next election. I swear their members are in bed with US congress people sometimes.

Honestly, as someone who lives here, Perth is probably one of the most expensive cities to live in almost anywhere. Everything from food to retail to housing has been steadily getting more and more expensive over the years. Right now alcohol insane with most 6-packs costing you $15-$20

I think you were quoting me, yeah Perth has gone up due to the mining boom, with the increase of people with expendable income comes an increase in price. That said a 6 pack is about the same here in Sydney so prices aren't that bad.

 

[Vault101]

Perth and Adelaide are medium sized cities, their more like the traditional Australian towns with people being more polite, more likely to help eachother out and are cheaper places to live. The downside is employment isn't as easy to find however my friends who have moved here have found work so it's an option, personally I'm looking at Adelaide as a possible option to move to.
.

huh I've never thourght of Perth in that way

I visited Melbourne not too long ago and I was like "ohhh! culutre! 7/11's!" but eh...places start to feel the same after a while

I feel like perth seems to have a large nerd population but mabye thats just me, there didn't even seem to be a comicbook store in the melbourne CBD whereas here we have like almost 4

...If one was to move to Australia from the United States, where would you recommend he go?

come to Perth

you can rent out my tin shed for cheap!

 

[RicoADF]

huh I've never thourght of Perth in that way

One of my friends I've known since 2001 moved out of Sydney due to how busy and rude people are here, she prefers Adelaide but was going to check out Perth. My other friend lived in Perth for awhile and also commented on how much more relaxed it is to Sydney so idk, would like to find out for myself some day.

Yeah well Melbourne is weird I have a few comics and nerd shops within a block of my work's office.

 

[1Life0Continues]

@erttheking: Jesus, if you can navigate the expense required to move here, you're doing mighty well for yourself.

As someone who has been navigating the immigration system in an attempt to get his damn WIFE from the US to Australia, I've found it's going to take in excess of $8000 total just for the privilege of having the one I love.

As a single person, you need to be able to show that you can survive here on your own (bring over $20k) while you get the right to work and find employment.

Luckily, if you're under the age of 30, you can get a Working Holiday visa to the country. If you're over 30 (like my wife) you're shit out of luck without excess cash to support yourself.

OT: This is actually good news. If the product is not fit for purpose, refunds are allowed by Australian law. VALVe should not be exempt for this if they wish to trade in this country.

 

[Akisa]

Perth and Adelaide are medium sized cities, their more like the traditional Australian towns with people being more polite, more likely to help eachother out and are cheaper places to live.

Honestly, as someone who lives here, Perth is probably one of the most expensive cities to live in almost anywhere. Everything from food to retail to housing has been steadily getting more and more expensive over the years. Right now alcohol insane with most 6-packs costing you $15-$20

Seems cheap, what brand? Than again I live in NYC.

 

[Vault101]

One of my friends I've known since 2001 moved out of Sydney due to how busy and rude people are here, she prefers Adelaide but was going to check out Perth. My other friend lived in Perth for awhile and also commented on how much more relaxed it is to Sydney so idk, would like to find out for myself some day.

Yeah well Melbourne is weird I have a few comics and nerd shops within a block of my work's office.

sidney has always given me the impression of a douche place but thats just me (Ive never been there)

while there are definetly differences among citys such generalisations are not always indicative of peoples experience...I mean I've seen hipsters here in perth

@erttheking: Jesus, if you can navigate the expense required to move here, you're doing mighty well for yourself.

As someone who has been navigating the immigration system in an attempt to get his damn WIFE from the US to Australia, I've found it's going to take in excess of $8000 total just for the privilege of having the one I love.

As a single person, you need to be able to show that you can survive here on your own (bring over $20k) while you get the right to work and find employment.
.

ooooorrrr he can come over and I'll hide him in my shed for half the price