Valve Unfazed by PS3 Hacks

[Rewdalf]

Spoiler: That's why this is my Black Ops emblem...

But yeah, Valve (as I've mentioned before) is one of the only companies that I respect.

 

[Giest4life]

Couldn't you buy Portal 2 on the PS3, download the fee PC version, then return the PS3 version for a full refund?

I'm sure Valve has thought of this, and found a way to plug up this hole.

P.S. Thanks

And why should they care? It's Sony's problem not their's. Valve can take care of itself.

What he said.

Don't make short or low content posts. Mod.

Edit. Well sorry, I'd made posts like this before and nobody ever had a problem with it. I didn't know that sort of thing was frowned upon.

I don't think it is, nor should it be. Modes, you know, are an entirely different species as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Anarchemitis]

Knowing Valve {which we don't} they're probably making the game run off an internal emulator for a different proprietary operating system than the console.

 

[nipsen]

I recommend a thorough read of that article. The most succinct quote therein:

Yeah.. as we all know - Digitalfoundry would never tell a lie. (They just repeat what anonymous people tell them).

edit: also, the more general and unspecific, the more of an authority you are on everything. Obviously.

 

[Sentox6]

Yeah.. as we all know - Digitalfoundry would never tell a lie. (They just repeat what anonymous people tell them).

In this case it looks like the anonymous people can back themselves up. If you have any actual evidence to the contrary, I'd certainly like to see it (hell, just explain on a technical level what's wrong with the assertions in the article).

At any rate, GeoHot's 3.55 is available, letting people run homebrew (and I know of at least one PS3 game backup that's running in conjunction with that). I mean, simply on the basis that this is a software-only hack, it's already more accessible than achieving the same result on the 360.

Also, I still really want to know what this "jig" hack for the 360 is.

 

[nipsen]

Yes. Everyone search for "JTAG" on google. Happy?

And no - again, they're simply assuming, and stating things very generally that doesn't actually involve the things they insist on. Typical DF, it's what they always do. In this case, it's equating "running backups" with "being able to do anything". They're not the same.

 

[Trmptplyr_07]

Chalk one up to Steamworks!!!! This is why I absolutely love Steam, among many other ones as well.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Is it does me, or does this sound like a challenge? When people say "unhackable," or "this doesn't affect us," that's when all the hackers come out of the woodwork, right?

 

[Trmptplyr_07]

I see it now "PlayStation developers using Steamworks to protect games." I have no ill will towards Valve, I like them a lot, but for the love of god someone stop them before they take over the world!

BUT I WANT THEM TO BE OUR SUPREME OVERLORDS!!!!! THEY SAID THEY'D GIVE US FREE COOKIES.

 

[Trmptplyr_07]

Is it does me, or does this sound like a challenge? When people say "unhackable," or "this doesn't affect us," that's when all the hackers come out of the woodwork, right?

Normally this would be true, but I know many people and have heard dozens of stories of people who used to Pirate Games actually find out they Love Steam so much they actually Quit pirating the games and end up not only buying all their games off of Steam they also end up buying all the games they pirated as well because they feel bad about doing it.

Besides I've seen and heard of Steam hacks, but none of them are any good.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Normally this would be true, but I know many people and have heard dozens of stories of people who used to Pirate Games actually find out they Love Steam so much they actually Quit pirating the games and end up not only buying all their games off of Steam they also end up buying all the games they pirated as well because they feel bad about doing it.

Besides I've seen and heard of Steam hacks, but none of them are any good.

No, no, Steamworks is coming to PS3. The achievements, dedicated server, and friendslist backend. Not "Steam," the program itself. Besides, Steam "hacks" often manifest themselves as multiplayer cheats - which is disrupted by the VAC system - unless the server is VAC-disabled, often a private server, which Portal 2 will most likely use because it's only 2-player co-op...

 

[AngryFrenchCanadian]

But hackers were already having a field day with COD4 and MW2 way before these hacks...

Ah well, I assume Portal 2 will use Steam rather then PSN. But that being said VAC isn't exactly the best anti-hacker system...

Really? So far, it's the best I've ever seen.

I don't remember the last time I encountered a hacker on a TF2, DOD:S or CS:S server. I mean, there's basically two layers of security: VAC itself and the people administering each individual server. It's possible to get past VAC, it's not as easy getting past an Admin.

I can't say the same for PunkBuster. It's a piece of crap.

 

[A1]

I can definitely see Sony adopting Valves techniques and methods in order to protect their games. And to think that Valve and Sony were once on poor terms. Now it looks like Valve may very well turn out to be one of the best friends Sony has. The irony is quite delicious.

 

[Roxor]

Well, it's certainly good to see a developer not making a fuss over a hack.

Sony, start taking notes. Valve is showing you how a proper developer behaves when the platform they're using is hacked.

On another note, I wonder if Valve's PC development background has anything to do with their lack of a reaction?

 

[Something Amyss]

But the guy is French.

And I'm a little confused...

How are the hacks destroying the PSN marketplace?

They're totally ruining it! Only Steam can save it! PRAISE VALVE!

 

[RelexCryo]

XBox got hacked years ago. Wonder how they got away without this much publicity.

First: Xbox wasn't dubbed the unhackable system.
Second: It was years ago. If they released a report saying, "Hacking Still an Issue With Xbox" no one would care because it is old news. Give it until November (very liberal guess) and by then no one will care that the PS3 is still hacked except for one story every other month saying a new update confused some hackers but they've broken it already.

..no. What it comes down to is that no one covering this has any kind of idea what actually happens. So they, like you, simply base themselves on myths they believe to be true.

Where in my post am I making grand assumptions based on myth? Was the PS3 not called the unhackable system? Is the Xbox hacking/modding community not old news? Do we not see a story about a single update that might prevent some pirating every two months but ends up being to no avail?

Please tell me, I am curious.

Sure... You're assuming that a "hack" is the same on a windows-system as any other system. That it's absolute, security on or off. And that it automatically involves an easy way to apply patches in completely unrestricted ways. So you suggest that it's not going to be an issue once everyone just settles down and accepts that the system is broken. Apparently you're also taking Geohot's comments to support the idea that the system is now wide open.

It's much more complicated than that, and actually worming your way into the ps3 based on low-level code is not practicable. It will probably never happen that someone manage to write their own sub-routines. Instead it's going to be high-level hacks based on other high-level code, such as the leaked sdk.

Meanwhile, the reason why there's any controversy at all over this is partially because:
1. the hack doesn't actually allow either piracy or individual patches to specific games. It's very difficult to circumvent just the platform security encryption (..even if it's doable, it's not practical. "Practical" meaning: "possible to do without a large development studio and tools you don't have access to in even a very well-equipped basement, etc". It's not an easy target).

...and because
2. Sony is having a hissy-fit because someone made them believe they had stolen all their toys, and hoisted them up on a flag-pole.. that is so high you can't see the top. And Sony is now basically calling in their parents to outlaw flagpoles, as well as thieves and annoying people in general that are "stupid". They also have PR dudes that like to talk as if they know everything.

Meanwhile, the jig (on the xbox360) does make the system wide open, and completely exposed. And it is, like you say, not news because there's no drama around it. The drama and the fallout from the ps3 hack is all completely self-inflicted by Sony imps, though. So I hope they're really going to be punched around for a long time.

But speaking about the actual hack, and in terms of the mechanisms on the platform (and other things Sony folks don't know what is), the "hack" isn't actually breaking the system wide open. In practical terms it never did.

One example of that is the MW2 hacks - they existed before the ps3 hack turned up. Which of course doesn't stop IW folks from blaming the hacks on Ps3 platform security. While suddenly "platform security" becomes something that has to be asked of every developer.

And you get articles like the above, where publishers are asked in leading terms about something they don't know enough about. While the ones asking the questions know even less. Until it's all repeated until it's true on the internet.

Welcome to "new media", I guess..

Which raises the question: Did Jerry/Tycho of Penny Arcade put this accurately?


"What it means in actual practice is something different, though. Software for the Xbox 360 routinely outsells its PS3 equivalent, and that equipment is deeply compromised. Ask Infinity Ward how secure the 360 is. But there's still some voodoo involved in seizing the reins of that hardware. It's well understood and deeply codified voodoo, but there's still a rudimentary latch on the screen door. When the box literally cant distinguish between its creator and an unnamed third party, you've entered a new era."

http://www.penny-arcade.com/2011/1/7/

 

[Outright Villainy]

Well, at least Portal 2 will be well protected. I love VALV[sup]E[/sup].

As much as I love Valve and Steam, great stuff, they've gone and shot themselves sin the foot here with this announcement.

To the hacking mind, valve saying "haha! We have steam as well, we have no problems" is like flourishing a red cape. The only way they could have made it worse would have been to say "Our technology is un-hackable" which as we all know is a claim that yields great success within the hacking community; it's a challenge that gets beaten in the first few days of release.

Absolutely true of course, but I don't think as many hackers would go after Valve to prove a point; everyone is on Valve's side, they'd just be seen as giant dicks by everyone.

 

[nipsen]

..hamfisted and poetic, I guess.. Or just extremely sarcastic..

It's one perspective, though. That since this will eventually lead to self-signed packages that will very likely install on any system, it means something special. Because it will all make it so much more available and easy. Sure.

But since we're still talking about installing protected, separate programs that won't actually change other software on the console. It doesn't mean "the floodgates are opened", etc. It means you can treat the box as your PC.. except it's secure, and you don't necessarily need to distrust particular programs, since they're assigned to various access-levels, and will not have access to your mail, data and credit card without your approval.

Besides, some of us have made ready-made programs that automatically execute and magically unpack their content on other platforms before. Various grand apocalyptic visions of the future failed to materialize.

See - turns out that actually installing something yourself, and making an effort to even be interested in what your device can do... rather than fawn over what the publishers and manufacturer thinks it's economically convenient that their devices should do... is something that takes so much effort, it could easily be thought of as being in the realm of "extremely specially interested people".

I do enjoy the entire "ohmygod, hacking, ohmygod" discussion, though. And how it ends up letting more people discover just exactly how much inconsistent silliness is said about pirates, hackers, and other terrible things. If it actually ends up influencing the steel sphere that is Sony-land as well.. great.

Otherwise, maybe I can just go back to programming for interesting hardware in peace this time, without funny firmware updates and expensively paid for propaganda-declarations screwing everything up. I mean, is that really too much to ask for? Not have some pale-fat CEO trample over your hobby, after you paid good money for a documented feature that came with the box?

Apparently, it's some sort of impossible media-event that happens every 100 years or so. "Behold! The product does... what it did before! Except now it can't be fucked up by corporate whims! That on reflection may very well have been more harmful than helpful after all! Though we're never going to admit it, because it would look bad.. to actually look good! It makes sense, because we say so". ..bloody world. Bastards. Allbastards.

 

[Paragon Fury]

XBox got hacked years ago. Wonder how they got away without this much publicity.

The Xbox 360 got hacked, but Microsoft was able to stop most of it, and ban those who had done various nefarious things. You can still play pirated games, but it requires a modified Xbox 360, and you're likely to get caught if you go onto Xbox Live.

What happened to the PS3 is much, much worse. Basically everything on the PS3 is open for business now to modders, who can pretty much do anything they want to the system and most any game on it. And if my understanding of coding is still fresh, Sony can't do anything about this new Masterkey hack unless they recall every single PS3 ever and install new hardware.

 

[theultimateend]

I would have preferred them saying "Hacking won't effect our sales."

It would be nice if someone would actually acknowledge that there is no data to support massive profit loses (or even noticeable ones) (to my knowledge, feel free to disprove me, I like new information).

Now I don't pirate, if it's not worth my money it's not worth my time (basically just play wow at this point till something good hits) but it's like the drug war.

DRUGS ARE BAD!
Why?
Because they intrinsically are!!! Look at all the crime!
...that didn't exist before you outlawed them?

Same with Piracy, reduction in sales tend to coincide with terrible DRM practices and not piracy numbers. The highest selling games each year have the highest piracy as well. I'd love for people to pirate me into millions of dollars. Would be a nice punishment.

GM Rico