Valve Working on Steam Controller Compatibility for Dota 2

[AzrealMaximillion]

Wait, DOTA 2 (and MOBAs in general) are complex for a controller? Are there really that many inputs in these games that a controller cant handle?

It's not the amount of inputs. Its the lack of precision controllers generally have vs. KB+M. Especially for a game that pretty much controls like an RTS.

Wouldnt the game control almost like any other top down shooter, almost like Diablo 3 does on consoles? Or Torchlight.

Again, the controls being converted isn't the issue. It's the precision that controllers lack. Keep in mind that DOTA 2 is a very team based game. If even one person using a controller isn't precise, the whole team fails.

One of the great things about being a human is being able to compensate or practice. Just because a controller doesn't allow for a level of precision, if the user can hit everything they want to do they're not a liability.

The failure of the cross platform online multiplay for the ShadowRun fps would prove you wrong.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Wait, DOTA 2 (and MOBAs in general) are complex for a controller? Are there really that many inputs in these games that a controller cant handle?

It's not the amount of inputs. Its the lack of precision controllers generally have vs. KB+M. Especially for a game that pretty much controls like an RTS.

Wouldnt the game control almost like any other top down shooter, almost like Diablo 3 does on consoles? Or Torchlight.

Again, the controls being converted isn't the issue. It's the precision that controllers lack. Keep in mind that DOTA 2 is a very team based game. If even one person using a controller isn't precise, the whole team fails.

One of the great things about being a human is being able to compensate or practice. Just because a controller doesn't allow for a level of precision, if the user can hit everything they want to do they're not a liability.

If that were the case then people playing the ShadowRun FPS on the 360 would not have gotten routinely stomped out by the PC players every single time in cross platform play. Sorry but controllers are not good enough to be used side by side for most multiplayer games. Controllers only have an advantage in fighting games and racing titles. Games like FPS and strategy like DOTA2, its not debatable.

 

[Vigormortis]

Ooph. While I admire their tenacity in trying to find a way to make this controller work for games like Dota 2, I'm just not sure they'll pull it off.

Perhaps they'll find a way by combining context-specific mappings and an altered UI, but it'll be damned hard to find an effective system.

Wait, DOTA 2 (and MOBAs in general) are complex for a controller? Are there really that many inputs in these games that a controller cant handle?

Technically, at a professional level, yes. There are.

Spoiler: A quick list of some important inputs.

1 to 6 keys - skills/abilities
1 to 6 keys - items
4 keys - camera (if using more than edge scroll)
7 keys - courier select plus abilities
7 keys - other unit select plus abilities
1 key - attack move
1 key - cancel
1 key - shift queue order
1 key - ability learn
1 key - increase stats

The list sorta keeps going, but I think you get the point.

Some of these actions can be done via clicking a button on the UI, but regardless there are a LOT of inputs.

 

[SomeLameStuff]

Oh god. Can you imagine trying to play a hero like Meepo or Invoker with that controller? Or Chen? Or Enchantress? Or even Visage? Yeah, probably not going to work very well.

 

[DustyDrB]

There are just too many intricacies in Dota and I assume ARTS in general (this is the only one I've played) for a controller to be enough. I can't imagine anyone opting for this input method for the game when they have a choice of playing with a keyboard and mouse. I mean, imagine trying to move the camera, move your hero, and issue commands on a controller. Seems like it would be clunky as hell. There's only so many commands you can put on triggers/bumpers.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

PC people are gonna love when their games support a controller and then get to kick supposed ass against those that do use one.

Queue people once more downplaying the controller, time isn't going to change anytime soon.

Its easy to downplay it. The game is not made for it thus your performance is going to suck.

I've played batman AA with a KB and mouse and with a controller, the game was built for the controller but is playable with a mouse and KB its just much more fluid with the controller and easier to control.

My point being its not really the controller tho in this case its not the best of controllers but that aside the game is just not built for it.

 

[Smertnik]

That controller has 16 buttons or so, right? Let's see, one for scoreboard, six buttons for skills, the items you could put on the same buttons as the skills with a modifier, so one more, the same can be done with control groups, so two more (one as modifier, one for assigning groups) and then you'd have enough room for all the other stuff like quick buy, stop, courier and maybe even a chat wheel or two. It'd probably also be a good idea to enable dota_force_right_click_attack and make it work properly to eliminate the need for attack.
You can definitely make the keys work, I think the bigger problem would be the lack of precision and speed with the trackpads.

If you want to play something like legacy Invoker that requires 14 keys just for the skills that's just out of the question.

You'd obviously use QWERTZ for skills and not the legacy keys. Legacy doesn't have any purpose on a controller anyway.

Technically, at a professional level, yes. There are.

I doubt any kind of professional or even high skill level in general matters here, this is aimed more at casual folk to whom an increase in reaction/input time doesn't make that much of a difference.

 

[james.sponge]

The biggest question is scrolling speed and precision. Dota has a few skillshots and tons of target point abilities, aiming those in crowds could prove difficult.

 

[Denamic]

Wait, DOTA 2 (and MOBAs in general) are complex for a controller? Are there really that many inputs in these games that a controller cant handle?

You really have no idea. The micro management just in controlling last hits in the laning phase will be a nightmare, and that's one of the most vital part of the game. Fail to control the Clinkz' farm, and he'll murder your everything when he has a 12 minute orchid.

 

[mindfaQ]

I really want to see what's possible with the Steam Controller API. Even if I don't by a Steam Machine anytime soon, I'll probably get my hands on one of these controllers out of curiosity.

Now I can get people in my games who don't speak english on english servers and using a less optimal method of control, thank you based Valve!

Kinda your skill's fault if controller people get matched with you

Wait, DOTA 2 (and MOBAs in general) are complex for a controller? Are there really that many inputs in these games that a controller cant handle?

6 skill buttons
6 item buttons
hero hotkey
shop hotkey
select all units or select all other units (to your preference)
courier hotkey
shift for action queueing
alt modifier for pinging, drawing on the map, toggling autoattack
ctrl modifier for leveling up, caution pings, assigning groups
group hotkeys
glyph hotkey (can be left out imo)
buyback hotkey (can be left out imo)
taunt and action item hotkey (can be left out)
attack hotkey
hold position hotkey
move hotkey
tab for switching between multiple selected units
left mouse click
right mouse click
middle mouse click for dragging
mouse movement
up/down/left/right for camera movement (can be left out with mouse, but maybe needed with controller)

Those are the ones I use. Traditional controllers would have the biggest problem with mouse movement. But even with the Steam Controller, it can be straining I believe, but maybe if you are used to it, it works with ease.

 

[DaViller]

I like valve and im Overall pleased with the way they handled dota(ofc things coud still be better), but if this gets implemented and console players can actually join in the pc pool it will be the death of the greatest multiplayer game I have ever played.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

I like valve and im Overall pleased with the way they handled dota(ofc things coud still be better), but if this gets implemented and console players can actually join in the pc pool it will be the death of the greatest multiplayer game I have ever played.

So basically what you're trying to say is:

because that's exactly what you're making yourself look like right now.

 

[Th37thTrump3t]

Wait, DOTA 2 (and MOBAs in general) are complex for a controller? Are there really that many inputs in these games that a controller cant handle?

I don't think it's complexity that makes using a controller a bad idea but rather the fact that these types of games require a certain amount of finesse that controllers lack. I'm not saying using a controller wouldn't work, in fact it would probably be great for more noncompetitive players. But as far as competitive play is concerned, I don't think controller support will really catch on.

 

[DaViller]

snip

Dude just leave it allright.

Indeed large influxes of new players are already a problem (not theyr existense, just the way they are handled), since the matchmaking is very far from perfect and often fails to provide matches in a reasonable skill range. However there are ways to handle a new, bad (a slot that I fill up quite often as well) or even complete asshole player, mostly you can be confident that they are capable of using a point and click spell or of attacking a stunned hero. You can communicate with them and work things out (hell I once a absolutly awesome game with 2 guys who called me a "son of a russian whore" 4 minutes in), it wont always happen but it´s at least possible.

But what happens when I play with or against a guy who is naturally handicapped and simply can´t respond to whats happening in the game in time? He will be useless no matter wich situation you put him in or how much you communicate with him. It´s kinda hard to explain this to a none dota player (im just gonna assume this and apologize if it is untrue), trust me this would completly destroy the game for everyone involved.

 

[Shadow-Phoenix]

snip

Dude just leave it allright.

Telling me to leave it doesn't mean I'll "leave it", that's exactly what I saw you coming off as, in future don't word it in such a manner.

If you think it's going to ultimately (see what I did there with the word "ultimate" as if it's destined to happen) happen then let Valve know that you think making their controller work for their game is wrong on all levels and will not lift off the ground and will just destroy the entire fanbase over night.

 

[DaViller]

Telling me to leave it doesn't mean I'll "leave it", that's exactly what I saw you coming off as, in future don't word it in such a manner.

Sorry dude but your response came of as kinda prickish as well, so lets just be cool on this.

I also already posted pretty similar, yet better worded and longer, post in a thread on the official dota2 dev Forum, so for all it´s worth valve is "informed" on my standpoint on this.

I say let it destroy the fanbase, fat chance. If people are so insecure and think a possible control scheme is going to completely sink a game; they probably don't have a lot of faith in the game, developer, or anything else associated with it. Or they see themselves as better than they really are, since the only thing holding the game back is how others choose to play.

Well the way other people play will always impact your enjoyment of a multiplayer title, especially a teamplay heavy one. They can port the game to console im cool with that (although I would rather have them spend the effort on making the actual game better), but joining pools would be a very bad idea. Nobody ones to lose games because a teammate is practically handicapped and nobody wants to be the guy who just feeds and drags his entire team down with him. I don´t see any good in doing something that will only help to lessen everyones overall enjoyment of a game.

I find a bit weird that the ones who support this seem to be people who don´t play the game.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

If that were the case then people playing the ShadowRun FPS on the 360 would not have gotten routinely stomped out by the PC players every single time in cross platform play. Sorry but controllers are not good enough to be used side by side for most multiplayer games. Controllers only have an advantage in fighting games and racing titles. Games like FPS and strategy like DOTA2, its not debatable.

The failure of the cross platform online multiplay for the ShadowRun fps would prove you wrong.

Never played Shadowrun, not much of a FPS guy. At the same time I was unaware MOBA's require the skill precision of headshots.[/quote]

MOBA's require precise timing. Not precision for headshots, but being in the right place at the right time so that the hero you control is last hitting properly instead of wasting potential XP gained enemy creeps and enemy heroes. And if the trackpads on the Steam Controller are as overly sensitive as everyone who tried it at CES recently says, the controller will put players at a disadvantage.