Vaping. Your Thoughts?

[Starbird]

I dislike it.

Why?

Because some anti-socially oriented cunts have now started to ignore smoking bans with them, because they think their new cigarettes are somehow 'not smoking'.

They aren't smoking. Very very different processes. Still, I can see how it would be invasive and so common courtesy dictates not to do it near people who ask you nicely not to.

My thoughts on vaping?
1) If you are not dependent on Nicotine do not start. Vaping is not "cool" it just shows weakness and how so many are addiction prone. It is not a habit you want to start. If you ask the majority of people addicted to nicotine what is the one thing they would change about their life, and usually that answer is to have never started nicotine products. Nicotine is one of the hardest habits to quit, so best advice is to not start.
2 If you are or were a smoker, vaping is not a substitution for quitting, so you should still strive to get yourself nicotine free. It can be a tool to help you quit if you choose to make it be, but ultimately quitting has to be your goal to make that a reality. Bottom line is it only controls you as long as you allow it to, and only you can take back that control.

What if you really like smoking, but are looking for a healthier, cheaper substitute?

I have yet to meet anyone with a fully developed prefrontal cortex that actually "liked" smoking, but rather they liked the self treatment for their anxiety. Once you are actually addicted to smoking, it no longer is a " like" it is more like a " need" just to feel normal.

EDIT: Also, I disagree with your first response. People should not have to ask you nicely not to, you should be respectful of their space and go where there are not people close by to vape, just as you would with a cigarette. Same rules would apply, never vape in someones home without asking, do not vape in restaurants, the workplace ect.. Just as I would never spray air freshener on someone without their permission, I would not blow vapors on them either. That would just be extremely rude. LOL

Hmm. Well then call me Mutant-Prefrontal-Cortex Man because I really do enjoy it. I like the sensation, the visual aspect, the smell and the taste of it. It may have something to do with my father smoking like a chimney through my childhood (and he is a hale and hearty 85 now) but I do like it.

As to the second part - it's probably a cultural thing. Smoking over here in Japan isn't exactly the norm, but it's still widely spread and acceptable to do in a lot of public spaces.

The major reason I moved over to vaping was that A) my current employer is death on the smell of smoke and B) my last computer died full of gunk.

I heard a TV argument about this. I'm pretty much on the same side of people who say "If you don't smoke, don't start vaping, if you smoke, it's the lesser evil." I also really can't stand the smell of cigarettes so it smells nicer to me if someone is "vaping" instead.

That said, there were also people who said they have used it to get off their nicotine addiction by adding smaller and smaller amounts to the liqour over time and then stopping altogether, using "vaping" to stop. Anyone who "vapes" has any thoughts on this/tried it/wants to try it? Seriously interested!

I may eventually start cutting down the nicotine I add to my juice, but until they discover some serious health issues with vaping I'll probably continue.

 

[Starbird]

I wonder how wide-spread the nicotine free e-cigarettes are? The ones we have at my 7-Eleven are essentially just scented water, no nicotine at all...

I'd prefer people use the vapour cigarettes, they smell better for one, for two they're healthier. By a lot. It would probably be better not to start at all, though.

Over here in Japan it's illegal to sell the nicotine filled stuff completely (probably due to the government getting tax from smokes). I have to order it from overseas.

If's it's not being used specifically to help quit smoking then it's stupid and gross. If you want to be addicted to something for the sake of it you need to be institutionalized. The new e-cig market is turning more people into e-cig/vapor-gig smokers who wouldn't normally smoke real cigarettes.
Also they shouldn't be able to push that shit on the TV, real cigs are banned, this crap should be too.
I'm a huge Yankees fan, I still couldn't help laughing at that loser sucking on the plastic tube with their logo all over it.

People don't even realize that by smoking them you aren't sticking it to big tobacco, who do you thinks owns e-cigs/vapor-cigs? Ignorant hipsters.

As for the OP, good job getting off normal smokes!

P.S. There still are real health risks though: http://no-smoke.org/learnmore.php?id=645

I don't think anyone wants to be addicted to something. It's more something that I enjoy that unfortunately has addictive properties and health issues.

It's a lot like alcohol. Or fast food. Or any vice, really. The main issue I had with my smoking was the damage I was doing to my surroundings and the fact that some people around me disliked the smell.

It is actually an interesting question that - why do smokers get such a negative reaction (even when they are doing it behind closed doors) while moderate to heavy drinking is socially acceptable, if not outright encouraged in certain settings?

 

[Brennan]

It is actually an interesting question that - why do smokers get such a negative reaction (even when they are doing it behind closed doors) while moderate to heavy drinking is socially acceptable, if not outright encouraged in certain settings?

Alcohol has much, much deeper roots with human civilization. For thousands of years on at least three continents, beer and wine actually served and important role by providing a source of reliable potable liquid in areas/eras where water sanitation was either not understood or impossible. Many civilizations may not have been possible without alcohol.

Its psychoactive effects have long served important roles as well. It isn't called a "social lubricant" for nothing. And on the darker side, getting someone impaired under the pretext of socialization is a classic way of fighting dirty in business, diplomacy, and... personal matters. Combine this with the above, and you have something which socially could become almost as important as eating, if not sometimes more so.

Between having thousands of years to entrench itself in traditional and ritual meaning, and actually having major practical value for much of that time, alcohol is almost inseparable from most human cultures. Think about, say, the difference between wine and fruit juice. One is mass manufactured, and for the most part no one really gives much of a damn about brand or ingredients, and even when they do, it's always cheap and simple. The other has thousands of producers, ranging from cheap "ordinary" stuff to individual bottles that cost more than your car and are treated like culinary high art. Every ingredient, step, and flavor is fussed over. A wine or beer enthusiast can talk about a sip like an art history professor talks about a painting. This is the result of millennia of cultural evolution with necessity, vice, and socioeconomic class dynamics all intertwined.

Smoking tobacco on the other hand is fairly recent, and is purely a vice with little to no practical value. Its psychoactive effects are mild and don't have much social utility. It's only cultural value comes from superficial association with subjective aesthetic ideals like "coolness", so it's completely vulnerable to shifting trends.

Drinking in moderate amounts (like, say, one or two beers or glasses of wine a day) is not only fairly harmless intoxication-wise, but actually has long term health benefits, while smoking on the other hand is pretty much always just unhealthy; whether you smoke more or less is just a matter of how much you want to push your luck.

TLR- Alcohol has an actual practical pro vs con dynamic, and has been with us much, much longer. Smoking is relatively new, and with no non-aesthetic pros always ultimately reduces to just a vice/weakness, even in moderation or in private.

 

[Eddie the head]

Who else besides me thought 'Vaping' was fapping for ladies? Just me, okay good.

I didn't, but I did think it was something sexual. I'm not even kidding.

More on topic. Better then the alternative.

 

[clinicalPsychologist]

I heard a TV argument about this. I'm pretty much on the same side of people who say "If you don't smoke, don't start vaping, if you smoke, it's the lesser evil." I also really can't stand the smell of cigarettes so it smells nicer to me if someone is "vaping" instead.

That said, there were also people who said they have used it to get off their nicotine addiction by adding smaller and smaller amounts to the liqour over time and then stopping altogether, using "vaping" to stop. Anyone who "vapes" has any thoughts on this/tried it/wants to try it? Seriously interested!

I may eventually start cutting down the nicotine I add to my juice, but until they discover some serious health issues with vaping I'll probably continue.

Thanks for the answer. Do you have the feeling it will work or would it be really hard?

 

[Starbird]

It is actually an interesting question that - why do smokers get such a negative reaction (even when they are doing it behind closed doors) while moderate to heavy drinking is socially acceptable, if not outright encouraged in certain settings?

Alcohol has much, much deeper roots with human civilization. For thousands of years on at least three continents, beer and wine actually served and important role by providing a source of reliable potable liquid in areas/eras where water sanitation was either not understood or impossible. Many civilizations may not have been possible without alcohol.

Its psychoactive effects have long served important roles as well. It isn't called a "social lubricant" for nothing. And on the darker side, getting someone impaired under the pretext of socialization is a classic way of fighting dirty in business, diplomacy, and... personal matters. Combine this with the above, and you have something which socially could become almost as important as eating, if not sometimes more so.

Between having thousands of years to entrench itself in traditional and ritual meaning, and actually having major practical value for much of that time, alcohol is almost inseparable from most human cultures. Think about, say, the difference between wine and fruit juice. One is mass manufactured, and for the most part no one really gives much of a damn about brand or ingredients, and even when they do, it's always cheap and simple. The other has thousands of producers, ranging from cheap "ordinary" stuff to individual bottles that cost more than your car and are treated like culinary high art. Every ingredient, step, and flavor is fussed over. A wine or beer enthusiast can talk about a sip like an art history professor talks about a painting. This is the result of millennia of cultural evolution with necessity, vice, and socioeconomic class dynamics all intertwined.

Smoking tobacco on the other hand is fairly recent, and is purely a vice with little to no practical value. Its psychoactive effects are mild and don't have much social utility. It's only cultural value comes from superficial association with subjective aesthetic ideals like "coolness", so it's completely vulnerable to shifting trends.

Drinking in moderate amounts (like, say, one or two beers or glasses of wine a day) is not only fairly harmless intoxication-wise, but actually has long term health benefits, while smoking on the other hand is pretty much always just unhealthy; whether you smoke more or less is just a matter of how much you want to push your luck.

TLR- Alcohol has an actual practical pro vs con dynamic, and has been with us much, much longer. Smoking is relatively new, and with no non-aesthetic pros always ultimately reduces to just a vice/weakness, even in moderation or in private.

Well tobacco actually does go back really really far in a lot of cultures...

I heard a TV argument about this. I'm pretty much on the same side of people who say "If you don't smoke, don't start vaping, if you smoke, it's the lesser evil." I also really can't stand the smell of cigarettes so it smells nicer to me if someone is "vaping" instead.

That said, there were also people who said they have used it to get off their nicotine addiction by adding smaller and smaller amounts to the liqour over time and then stopping altogether, using "vaping" to stop. Anyone who "vapes" has any thoughts on this/tried it/wants to try it? Seriously interested!

I may eventually start cutting down the nicotine I add to my juice, but until they discover some serious health issues with vaping I'll probably continue.

Thanks for the answer. Do you have the feeling it will work or would it be really hard?

Will see. Last time I tried to go cold turkey or taper off on old uncle Nick I reached a point where I was just too tired to function at work. I tried the patch and it gave me massive sleep issues.

 

[michael87cn]

i'm very skeptical about this new unproven, untested vaping thing. everyone at my work is doing it, and I think its probably even worse for you than cigarettes. you're probably taking in WAY more nicotine or something.

i think if you vape long enough you might just become unable to live without it...

we'll see though.

 

[barbzilla]

My thoughts on vaping?
1) If you are not dependent on Nicotine do not start. Vaping is not "cool" it just shows weakness and how so many are addiction prone. It is not a habit you want to start. If you ask the majority of people addicted to nicotine what is the one thing they would change about their life, and usually that answer is to have never started nicotine products. Nicotine is one of the hardest habits to quit, so best advice is to not start.
2 If you are or were a smoker, vaping is not a substitution for quitting, so you should still strive to get yourself nicotine free. It can be a tool to help you quit if you choose to make it be, but ultimately quitting has to be your goal to make that a reality. Bottom line is it only controls you as long as you allow it to, and only you can take back that control.

What about people like me who were occasional smokers (mostly hookah, and sometimes clove cigarettes when I was out drinking and shooting pool, not an excuse, just giving background), who then converted to using vaporizers with nicotine laced liquids, and then finally switched to nicotine free liquids. So, now I am still "smoking" something, but it has no nicotine or arsenic in it. It may have some unknown health side effects that I am unaware of, but compared to before, I feel much better, not just physically, but about myself.

 

[Brennan]

Well tobacco actually does go back really really far in a lot of cultures...

No, it doesn't. It goes back really really far in native South America, and a bit less far in native North America, and the entire rest of the world only about 400 years or so.

And even in Native American societies (who's culture ultimately got steamrollered by Europeans', remember), it was a social vice and a piece of religious ritual paraphernalia, not an item of actual practical utility, much less necessity.


I'm not necessarily defending alcohol, mind you: much of its practical value has been outmoded for at least a century, so in the modern day it's pretty much just a pure vice. Only the "social lubricant" and "dirty fighting" utility remain, and those are much harder to justify by themselves relative to the risks/downsides. But there's really nothing remotely mysterious about its traditional roots being so much deeper and more tenacious than smoking's, if you're actually comparing their histories honestly instead of fishing for justification for feeling that your preferred vice is unfairly put upon.

 

[Starbird]

Well tobacco actually does go back really really far in a lot of cultures...

No, it doesn't. It goes back really really far in native South America, and a bit less far in native North America, and the entire rest of the world only about 400 years or so.

And even in Native American societies (who's culture ultimately got steamrollered by Europeans', remember), it was a social vice and a piece of religious ritual paraphernalia, not an item of actual practical utility, much less necessity.


I'm not necessarily defending alcohol, mind you: much of its practical value has been outmoded for at least a century, so in the modern day it's pretty much just a pure vice. Only the "social lubricant" and "dirty fighting" utility remain, and those are much harder to justify by themselves relative to the risks/downsides. But there's really nothing remotely mysterious about its traditional roots being so much deeper and more tenacious than smoking's, if you're actually comparing their histories honestly instead of fishing for justification for feeling that your preferred vice is unfairly put upon.

I don't feel it's unfairly put upon, I just think that it gets a lot of hate in certain western countries while alcohol is - if you want to go there - as big if not a bigger problem.

Comparing long time harm to an accutely toxic dosage is being purposely obtuse. Smoking is harmfull. Arguing otherwise is as hopeless as arguing in favour of creationism.

Many things are harmful. Very few of them are outright banned.

My asthma acting up for one thing. All smoking being banned for a second. Common decency for a third.

You probably never seen the early 90's or late 80's, so take it from me when I say that all those smoking bans exist for a reason. They make normal life possible. And even after that some people are pretty much disabled and effectively banned from many places just because a small minority doesn't have the basic decency to not bother others with their own addition.

If someone ran up to you and planted a needle of heroin in your arm so you can share in his addiction, what would you do to him? Or a drunkard starting a fight with you because he's way gone?
So why would it work any different for smokers forcing others to share in their addition?

Because that's a silly example. Smoking isn't good, but it certainly isn't heroin.

So...are you really for smoking being banned completely? Or do you just want it outlawed in public places? Or what?

Again, the culture is a little different here in Japan. Most bars and clubs accept smoking anywhere, aside from a few that don't allow it.

Anywhere with kids however generally has a smoking room and does not permit smoking elsewhere.

i'm very skeptical about this new unproven, untested vaping thing. everyone at my work is doing it, and I think its probably even worse for you than cigarettes. you're probably taking in WAY more nicotine or something.

i think if you vape long enough you might just become unable to live without it...

we'll see though.

That's my biggest issue - it does need regulation and research. However I am very wary of stuff like this - Anti Smokers will likely aim for it to be banned on principle, and the various Tobacco lobbies and government agencies who generate a ton of tax revenue from cigs (see Japan) would want it spiked for monetary reasons.

All I know is that I feel way healthier, it's cheaper and won't clog up my PC with horrible crap.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

This thread has some great stuff, I'd love to hear more about people's experiences.

To the OP, amazing that it's helped you give up the tobacco. What brand did you buy? How does it work exactly? Was it expensive? How does it compare with cigarettes? What are the practicalities of it? Do you plan to eliminate it from your life entirely? Any other thoughts, eg. health, etc?

I don't know anything about these e-cigarettes but they sound like a good step to getting rid of tobacco since they can fill the same niche in one's life without the negatives. Any info on brands, experiences and comparisons would be amazing.

 

[Starbird]

This thread has some great stuff, I'd love to hear more about people's experiences.

To the OP, amazing that it's helped you give up the tobacco. What brand did you buy? How does it work exactly? Was it expensive? How does it compare with cigarettes? What are the practicalities of it? Do you plan to eliminate it from your life entirely? Any other thoughts, eg. health, etc?

I don't know anything about these e-cigarettes but they sound like a good step to getting rid of tobacco since they can fill the same niche in one's life without the negatives. Any info on brands, experiences and comparisons would be amazing.

Okay, very fair questions.

To answer your questions in no particular order:

1) I did some research before I bought. I ended up getting a full vaporizer kit (there are various types of e-cig, but these seem by far the best). Cost me 4000 yen for a Kamry X6. Basically it consists of a battery, a class container, a head (with wicks) and a nozzle. Takes a bit of getting used to and there is a bit of finesse to using it - reminds me a lot of a hookah, albeit a very small portable one.

2) I then bought various flavours of e-liquid, mostly non-nicotine and a bit of the nicotine filled stuff which I have been mixing at about a 1/10 ratio. So pretty low nicotine overall, but I 'smoke' a lot more so it balanced I guess.

3) It was a little expensive at the end of the day, primarily because getting nicotine e-liquid is impossible inside Japan, meaning you need to order from overseas. It is a lot cheaper in the west.

4) As a hookah smoker, I prefer it immensely to butts. The vapor is significantly cooler than smoke and so feels a lot better. It also tastes amazing and there are a bewildering amount of flavours and blends available - from ones that simulate cigarettes to crazy stuff like eggnog and cappuccino.
It also doesn't gunk up everything around you and can be safely smoked indoors and in your car. In fact my car smells amazing at present and others have remarked on the pleasant odor.

5) Practicalities here probably don't apply elsewhere. Most places where I can't smoke cigs I can't vape either - but it's mostly unknown here. It takes a little bit of time and practice to set up the vaper but once you know the tricks it's really simple. You can also mix and match e-liquids to go for high nicotine (nice early morning boost) or low nicotine (best for late night).

6) I would like to gradually remove the nicotine altogether and stick with the high purity zero nicotine liquids if I can. That may take a while however.

7) I have seen a massive heath difference. I feel more energized, less out of breath and my skin and teeth already are improving. And that is with very heavy vaping.

8) Health wise long term...that is currently the big question mark. It's definitely not as good for you as no smoking at all. Some studies show that nicotine has potentially dangerous short term effects, but long term is not really known. Ditto the other stuff inside it.

9) The nicotine infused juice itself can be very dangerous however. The container clearly says that it will likely be fatal to fish and animals, and in large quantities people too. I know that some people have smoked a lot on heavy nicotine loads and have had OD symptoms (like you can with the patch). However a little bit of common sense and care means you should be okay. If you have kids though, keep the nicotine stuff VERY well hidden and out of reach.

10) Overall though, I'm having a blast. I have tried every other way of quitting and never made it more than a week or so. I am now going on 7 weeks with no cigarettes smoked. My clothing, my house and my car smell nice. I doubt I will ever stop completely (I really enjoy smoking) but so long as no crazy health risks are uncovered with the stuff I've probably at least upgraded my life slightly.

 

[Chaelura]

Yeah, I switched to vaping a while ago. Slowly reducing the amount of nicotine in the solution. It's been fantastic so far. It *should* be regulated though, and more thoroughly tested. If you don't get your cartomizers or juice from reputable sources, sometimes they taste off or metallic, which makes you wonder. (And VG base (vegetable glycerin), instead of propylene glycol [which is found EVERYWHERE, in foods etc.] tastes like buttered popcorn.)

On the plus side - it smells and tastes nice and fruity; and nothing gets set on fire. Hell, inhalation of candle smoke being blown out is bad for you. I don't hack and cough with it. No ugly stains on the walls. So all that's good.

 

[Fdzzaigl]

I guess you mean the electronic cigarette...

Been trying to get my dad on those here, he's smoked his entire life (50 years) and although he's held up relatively well, his coughing is getting worrisome.

But it's actually forbidden to sell capsules for it with nicotine in my country (Belgium), therefore it's kind of useless to get for him.
The reason is something like: "It could be dangerous and not enough research has been done on them."

Which smells like bullshit fed by the tobacco lobby to me. No matter what little research has been done on it, it can't be much worse than basically inhaling burned up tar.
Regardless of that, at least a non-smoker like me wouldn't need to get vomit-urges when they arrive in a smoker's room or wash my clothes after co-working with a smoker.

 

[AT God]

The one thing e-cigarettes taught me is that I sure am glad its illegal to advertise regular cigarettes on TV.

I don't care what people do to their own body to be honest and the new vaping/e-cig thing is fine and great for people who couldn't quit smoking but can make due with less. The science will be extremely slow to be exposed probably and my guess is that while it will be better than cigarettes, I get a feeling that it wont be much better and will probably end up being a niche tobacco product, creating and fulfilling a new market but still have the same warning labels and restrictions as everything else.

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I started vaping about 6 weeks ago...

There are three major issues with electronic cigarettes.

1) They are expensive to get the starter packs, $60 USD or so. If you're going to use only vapor cigs you might as well get the reusable one after all. They also can fall apart forcing you to replace them with another starter pack. Also consider how many cigarettes you've ruined, packs you've destroyed over the past 11 years, yeah that will happen to the vapor cigs.

2) Since a full charge can let you burn through arguably a pack of cigarettes it is really easy to "overdose". A long car ride with an absent mind and you now have 20 cigs worth of nicotine in your system. It can make you sick or even raise your dependence and tolerance.

3) Currently, there are no medical studies on the effects of vapor cigs on the body. Its not the nicotine thats the problem its the add ons. Some initial findings have shown that these chemicals do affect the bodies cells, though whether this reaction is a danger has yet to be seen.

I liked em, but I just kept having to replace them. They were no longer cost effective. Plus you still get yelled at for using them in public buildings and airplanes.

 

[Zantos]

I really like it, it stopped me smoking around May time to the point that I don't even understand why I did it. I've dropped the nicotine content a lot, to the point that soon I'll just ditch the nic all together, maybe keep up with nic free ones or just not. It costs less, I feel a lot better, and our NHS has released it's report which recommends it as a good way to quit smoking.

That said, in the interest of public decency I generally go outside, and in the case of private places always ask and respect the wishes, or just go outside until told otherwise. In my own house I use it a bit and as I enjoy the smell I dont mind my bedroom or living room getting a weird perfume smell to it.

 

[murrayb67]

I've been vaping for a few years now, it took me about two weeks to switch over from tobacco, which I had smoked for 30 years prior. I don't miss the real thing at all now. At one point I took a drag on a real one out of curiosity and it was repugnant. Just be sure to do the research in choosing a vendor.