Videogames as Art

[Birthe]

This is a pretty well done article I thought and yeah I agree, if games are art or not it's pretty much up to your personal point of view. I mean there's also no real universal describtion of what art actually is... that also explains some of the pieces hanging in a Modern Art Museum...

 

[Eldarion]

I pretty much agree with this article. While I don't agree with Ebert's view, I'm not going to get up in arms and start spamming his email in response to it.

I give Edert the same treatment I give everything I don't like, I ignore him. Don't see any reason to care what he thinks.

 

[crimsonshrouds]

yahtzee is correct and if i listen to ebert its about films because that is wat he knows. I listen to yahtzee for video games... and sometimes i don't...

 

[Quiet Stranger]

How can he be Ebert's "videogame equivalent" when he hates almost everything and Ebert actually likes some movies and hates some movies, I've only seen one or two games Yahtzee actually likes

 

[oMonarca]

Not mean enough, and actually pretty valid and reasonable.

This was not written by Yahtzee. Maybe by that sissy Croshaw, but not by Yahtzee, no sir.

 

[dekuben]

complaining about how there is so much beauty in these games

Bahahaha!

Gz Yahtzee, I would have said the same thing; but I couldn't be bothered.

Is someone else going to do an inflammatory anti Roger Ebert article?

 

[Suskie]

Great heaven almighty am I sick of seeing Shadow of the Colossus thrown around in this debate.

I frankly think the fact that the gaming community is making such a big deal about Ebert's comments in fact gives the man more credibility than he deserves. As Yahtzee says, Ebert is a film critic with minimal knowledge of video games. He makes arguments that are unfounded and don't hold a lot of wind. I respect his opinion, of course, but why are we so bothered by it?

Edit: Oh, minor note. I don't mind that Ebert is so dismissive about video games, because again, what do I care. What I WON'T stand for is that Ebert recently said via tweet that he may be "too well-read" to understand video games, implying that the medium is for the illiterate. Which is ludicrous and insulting. I'm amazed a man as intelligent and articulate as Ebert would sink to such levels; he is literally trolling.

 

[Space Jawa]

I must say I enjoy this version of the article much more than what I was expecting it to read like.

 

[DaOysterboy]

Yahtzee, you're right.

You're not funny when you're not being mean.

Anyway, my feelings after Ebert's claim was less about the fact that he declared video games aren't art and more about him feeling qualified to define what art is. That's a rather arrogant attitude to take, in my opinion, but history has proven us nothing if not that the most successful people in life tend to be the biggest dicks, so shine on, Mr. Ebert.

And it makes it all the more arrogant that his own medium (film) was only very recently in a similar "it's art/no it isn't" type of debate. In terms of "accepted art forms" he chose the infant of the group as his subject of choice, and now he has the right to declare what art is? No.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Personally, I feel sorry for Ebert on this.

Not because of his viewpoint or anything else, just that he hasn't seen the depth of emotion that people here have seen; and never will.

But as Cracked said, the reason people are getting upset about it proves that it's art to some.

When something is defended this vigorously, you know it's raised a lot of powerful opinions in people - and that's the core of art.

 

[josh797]

yahtzee: seriously? a TL/DR? can we not read a single page article now? dont include a tldr for those lazy sods who cant be asked to read a full page article. it weakens your peice, by telling us that what you wrote isnt worth reading, beacause all the main points can be summed up in a single sentence. good article as always. just was irked by the TLDR thing.

 

[CopperBoom]

You may not get the dishwasher pregnant, but it is fun to try.

 

[Sovvolf]

I said some thing on the same lines as Yahtzee here... though I don't have a cult fan following or an internet show (yet) so I guess my words went into the fucking wind. I'm glad Yahtzee shares my opinion on this... you'll listen to him. Now excuse me I'm going to scream at a wall.

 

[CabbageSnake]

Finally someone with some sense! Ebert's opinion is just that, an opinion. Everyone I was talking to was thinking "Oh, Yahtzee is probably going to word rape that stupid Ebert's entire article." I think gaming gets a black mark in the art community because of our more extreme fanboys who would rather burn the Mona Lisa than admit that Ebert can have an outsiders view of video gaming. That said, I disagree in the extreme but not to the point where I'll go burn his house down for being the wrong kind of critic.

All things have an extreme fanboy group... unless they are genuinely accepted as crap by everyone. What's lame about this is... he's just another fanboy, albeit of movies. Obviously though, since he has more influence, people just like to jump on him.

 

[CopperBoom]

yahtzee: seriously? a TL/DR? can we not read a single page article now? dont include a tldr for those lazy sods who cant be asked to read a full page article. it weakens your peice, by telling us that what you wrote isnt worth reading, beacause all the main points can be summed up in a single sentence. good article as always. just was irked by the TLDR thing.

I do not even know what that means, I have to google it...

...

...oh.

 

[Distazo]

A very well written article by Yahtzee that really displays his intellegence in a way that isn't over done and often comical insults. I completely agree, art is and should be a very personal thing.

I have never been impressed by things like paintings or sculptures but books, movies, and videogames can move me to tears. Is that wrong? No. Its just how I percieve things and what has an impact on me.

Ebert has a different definition of what art is than what Yahtzee does which is different from what I do, its all subjective and ultimately any controversy painted by this is pointless.

 

[kingbosss]

between this and the penny arcade response i have seen two of the more intelligent arguments but both have the same line or theme and that is just because it has not been art yet it will never be. I mean I pridey sure you had good movies in the first twenty five years but i doubt you had any of the time honed classics you hear about today such as citizen Kane. that movie came out in 1941 when one of the first moves came out in 1896. the point is that it is still a little premature to say and the fact we argue it so emotionally shows how insecure we are which is another ting both articles say.

 

[Theophob]

The medium "game" is still very young compared to others. I guess there were a bunch of people saying films will never be art when this medium was new. Same is true for that discussion of games driving people mad by the way, it was the same with movies or Rock'n'Roll or whatever new thing/unused medium.
In my opinion it's because all written art is somehow familiar because since the dawn of humanity there were spoken stories, so the difference to the written form wasnt that big. Nowadays films and games are only abstractly connected to spoken/written story (depends on film/game tho). But we got used to films and there are very few left, who were born when there were NO films. So almost all got used to films from day one of their life. In some more years this will be true for games. This will drastically change the view on games as a medium.

The only question is and will ever be: What really new media will come and how would YOU think about it when you are 50 and its just came out and all the young ons are into it and you dont get it

 

[DeathQuaker]

Fantastically written piece, but I lost Yahtzee right around here at the end:

Religion should be something you keep within the confines of your own head, and we should all recognize how pointless it is to try and make other people see the fairies that live in your brain. That's how I feel about art.

The wording suggests we should keep our artistic inspirations in our head. (Which would mean that no one ever should make books, movies, paintings, sculptures, or video games, etc.)

Or just not force what we see as art onto other people?

I mean, with the religion analogy--okay, I know I believe in a powerful force of Light and compassion that works and moves through all human beings (even Yahtzee ). (And I can understand, in the world we live in, why people might think I'm insane for believing that.) I think it's okay for me to tell people what I believe.

What's NOT okay is me forcing other people to have the same belief, or disrespecting other people who do not share the same belief (that would in fact be hypocritical of me to do so).

Hopefully that's what he's getting at.

I believe Mr. Ebert's entitled to his opinion, but the "you're wrong" mentality that seems to underlie his message does grate.

I do appreciate the effort to support the "to each his own" attitude--and I have to admit I'm surprised to see it coming from Yahtzee, but shame on me for not expecting better of him.