View From the Road: Cheaters Sometimes Win

[deth2munkies]

I will add that there IS cheating in the SC2 beta. A number of confirmed Maphackers (I faced one myself) have been spotted.

 

[F8L Fool]

Calling simple banter cheating, regardless of how "dishonest" it may be, is a gigantic stretch. I don't even know how you began to interpret it as cheating in the first place. Cheating is breaking the clearly defined rules. Nothing more, nothing less.

Anything else is open season and perfectly welcome in any good competitive environment. Regardless of how immature, meaningless, minimal, dishonest, cruel, or awkward a tactic may be.

This guy has the right idea:

In the SC1 days I used to join "NO RUSH" games and then proceed to rush my opponents. When the brood war expansion was released I won more than a few games as Protoss with Dark Templar spam simply because my opponents neglected to build any sort of stealth detection, which was somehow considered "unfair" of me.

Yeah, not exactly cheating, but certainly in poor sportsmanship...to them. In my experience cries of 'cheating' and 'exploit' and being a 'poor sport' are the mewling of a LOSER.

You won, they lost, end of story. Touch cookies, suckers.

 

[Altorin]

This actually reminds me of an ancient chinese general who actually defeated a huge army with ONLY A CHINESE VIOLIN.

He knew that he was going to be besieged by an opposing force, but he had no force to counterattack with, so his options were - a) lose the city, and possibly his life, or b) pull something hilarious out of his ass and hope for the best.

He chose option B, and stood on his city wall, which was almost entirely unguarded, and simply played his violin. When the enemy army got to his wall, they saw him playing, and thought "damn, this guy is either fucking crazy, or fucking hardcore, and if he has an army, I don't want to fight against it."

So eventually, the army just left, because they thought he had some crazy plan that involved killing them all with the power of music.

Or another ancient wartime mindfuck, I think it was the babylonians, attacking Egypt.. The general learned that, a) the egyptians were ridiculously superstitious, and b) they worshipped cats as a vengeful god called Bast.

So what he did, when he assaulted them, is he painted cats on all of his soldier's shields, and he sent a wave of cats in ahead of and among his warriors. The egyptians refused to fire on the babylonians because they were afraid of hitting the cats and angering the vengeful god Bast. Also, they couldn't bring themselves to strike their enemies shields for the same reason.

When the babylonian general won, he ended up sacrificing a bunch of cats right infront of the egyptian prisoners, just as a final "Fuck you, and Fuck your god" message.

Mindfucks are great.

edit: http://www.cracked.com/article_17319_the-6-greatest-battlefield-mindfucks.html

a few mistakes in my retelling, but taht's because it was from memory

 

[Altorin]

a bit more On topic, this actually reminds me of a friend of mine.. He would ALWAYS win when we played Warcraft 2, or Starcraft.

The reason for this, was because he always won. People didn't want to be beaten by him, so they'd ally with him. And unvariably, he would turn on them when they were at their weakest, and win the game - he NEVER won an Allied Victory. It was all or nothing with him.

Another thing is, he ONLY had an endgame. He went straight for Carriers and templars.. or in Warcraft 2, Dragons and Ogres. He didn't have an early game, so if you assaulted him early, he'd probably fall.

I was the only one who saw this, and I'd try and rally people AGAINST him, and they'd agree.. but in secret, they'd all ally with him, each thinking they were the only one in the game to do so.. when actually everyone BUT me was allied with him..

So I'd get stomped, and then they'd fight amongst themselves until he was ready to kill them all.

This happened every time.

I think my friends were morons.

 

[LionsFist]

http://www.youtube.com/user/SaharaDrac#p/a/u/1/SLwWUvBiX-k

I think this game describes what you're on about ;P

As for the tactics, completely fine. It's what competitive martial arts is build upon.

 

[Yeager942]

/steal idea

 

[Shjade]

I have a hard time deciding. Sometimes this sort of deception can work, yes. Other times it has no effect. It really depends on the player. It's not cheating by any means - at least not the examples in the article. Dropping a "gg" while intending to pull a sneak attack...that's borderline.

Related: folks who end up against me wouldn't have to worry about this as I don't like the idea of being considered untrustworthy - all you have online to determine character is your word, pretty much. I just finished up my placement matches today and on the last one I gave my opponent a gg when I was sure I wouldn't be able to come back. I didn't quit right away, though, as I'm sometimes a bit chatty when a game ends; I told him I'd just taken the island base (the map was...the one that's like a horseshoe-shaped map on an asteroid where the two opposing bases are close together but separated by space with an island between them) and he scanned it afterward and saw the little setup I had there, complete with two stargates I'd planned to rain hell on him with if I had the chance, but I just didn't have the resources to make use of it and he already had dropships with a big army. Maybe if I hadn't said anything it would've taken him too long to find the base and given me time to do some damage, but it seemed unlikely. Anyway, we had a little chat about strategy and how the rankings work and such, then I left the game when it seemed like we'd reached a lull in the chatter.

Could I have tried to store up and mount an aerial attack? Probably. He didn't go attack the base even after he knew it was there, so if I hadn't mentioned it I bet he wouldn't have gone looking for it while we spoke. I probably could have, but I'd have felt dirty even thinking about it. Never happen. I guess it's sort of a self-handicap, but I can live with that. Like I'm ever going to be competitive in an RTS anyway - bahahaha. Perish the thought.

Oh, related to that last remark: on the few occasions I've noted in response to a "gl" that I'll be needing it 'cause I'm a bad, it hasn't impacted the game's outcome...because it's true. x.x

...except when I end up Zerg.

Yay Random!

 

[samsonguy920]

Starcraft has many elements of chess and poker, and both of those games allow bluffs and sacrifices. The art of the bluff and sacrifice are integral to any good game, and anybody who would consider that cheating are: merely jealous they didn't think of it first, angry that they got fooled, or unimaginative rules lawyers*. I have to admit though it hadn't occured to me until Mr. Funk brought it up of using such tactics beyond the fourth wall of the game. I feel kinda silly now.
*:as in reading the rules as they see it.

I have a hard time deciding. Sometimes this sort of deception can work, yes. Other times it has no effect. It really depends on the player. It's not cheating by any means - at least not the examples in the article. Dropping a "gg" while intending to pull a sneak attack...that's borderline.

Considering GG is geek speak for white flag, I don't consider it very borderline since there have been a number of real battles where one side pulled out the white flag only as a distraction or ruse. I for one would never stop once a GG is called, or call a GG of my own, because you never stop even when everything tells you that you lost. If anyone asks why you are opting to continue the battle even after a GG was called, just tell 'em you like to clean up the map before leaving. [small]Will help establish part of your notoriety that GG as a ruse won't work with you.[/small]
But it is always worth to try the tactic of the bluff, as any opportunity to keep your opponent off their best feet is worth trying. Just avoid repeating the same tactic at least the same way time and time again. There is nothing more delicious than a good rope-a-dope when it connects, but never assume that someone won't see it coming a second time. I think it is safe to say that Funk's pseudonoob and drunk tactics will be on many people's watch list, so from now until game release it will be good to hatch up your own schemes.

lol, i hate this; the beta vids and commentaries, all the journalists and critics talking about the game.
It is like Starcraft 2 is just this awesome exclusive game that only a room full of people are allowed to play. Sometimes people forget that not everyone got a key. You are talking about a game that 95% of Starcraft fans haven't even played.

I can understand where you are coming from, but as @John Funk: put it, this only will make it all the more delicious when the game is released. I like to look at it as even more preview and preparation for when I will get to play, learning strategies and not having to use two weeks in single player alone just to get used to the mechanics and all the new units. Blizzard makes a good story, therefore making the single player all the more fun, but the real meat and potatoes of Starcraft is the multiplayer. And that I would like to get into all the sooner. And since I didn't get my own golden ticket, I'm gonna be taking notes from those who did.

 

[Eleima]

On some level, StarCraft - and games like it - are all about deception, since it's a legitimate part of any strategy. I might build up a few Roaches and throw them in a suicide attack at my Terran-playing foe, leading him to build Marauders: powerful ground units that destroy armored units like my Roaches, but which have no defense against aerial attacks, which will be the main thrust of my attack. Or, a clever opponent of mine will build his main production facilities away from his main base, causing me to believe that he has the most minor of defenses and attacking before I'm ready, only to be slaughtered by a hidden force lying in wait. All of this is part of the actual game.

You sly fox!
Back on topic, though, I'm not sure what's described in this column truly constitutes as "cheating". I would say it's exploiting the enemy's weakness, because, let's face it, underestimating your opponent is a weakness. I've often been on the other side of the fence, people see a "gamer girl", and think it's going to be a cakewalk... hehehe. I don't think that's cheating. =D

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

I wouldn't consider that cheating simply because I won't really ease-up just because my opponent claims to be drunk or new. I won't stomp him into the ground in record time, mind you, but I won't really go easy on him, either.

 

[The_ModeRazor]

Wouldn't work on me, because the only good kill is overkill.
Although I am pretty drunk right now. (not)

 

[VanBasten]

I resolved to test this theory.

Have you considered testing the opposite effect? Saying stuff like: "I'm really prepared and I think I'm gonna win this one", "12 wins in a row, you're next!" or "I'm Korean, so basically... run".

 

[banthesun]

I don't actually play Starcraft but I do use a similar tactic in other games; whenever I'm preparing for an attack I send "kekekeke" messages ect. and then hit them with the biggest units I can make.

I'm not sure if it actually helps, but I have lots of fun.

 

[tkioz]

The second someone says "go easy on me I'm new" or "I'm a bit drunk" that's the point I get ready to kick him in the crotch in game. I'm a nasty bastard, no-one went easy on me when I was new, and no-one ever gave me a break because I was pissed off my head, so why the hell should I play nice.

I like to call it "my daddy beat me, so now I'm gonna beat you boy" mentality.

 

[Mr. Mike]

Deception is a perfectly viable tactic no matter what you're playing, be it a sport or a video-game. Unless there's a rule specifically against it, go for your life.

 

[TitsMcGee1804]

lol, i hate this; the beta vids and commentaries, all the journalists and critics talking about the game.
It is like Starcraft 2 is just this awesome exclusive game that only a room full of people are allowed to play. Sometimes people forget that not everyone got a key. You are talking about a game that 95% of Starcraft fans haven't even played.

I can understand where you are coming from, but as @John Funk: put it, this only will make it all the more delicious when the game is released. I like to look at it as even more preview and preparation for when I will get to play, learning strategies and not having to use two weeks in single player alone just to get used to the mechanics and all the new units. Blizzard makes a good story, therefore making the single player all the more fun, but the real meat and potatoes of Starcraft is the multiplayer. And that I would like to get into all the sooner. And since I didn't get my own golden ticket, I'm gonna be taking notes from those who did.

lol you are absolutely right i suppose, its not as if they are spoiling the story, sometimes i even forget that its not all gonna be about the multiplayer, and hell, its gonna grab me by the balls till it ships, and then when it does, it will let them go and it will be the best feeling ever, i stand corrected

as the greatest commercial ever created once told us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcdDg30VBgo&feature=related

good things come to those who wait

 

[Booze Zombie]

People can be easily fooled if they think you're weak...

 

[samsonguy920]

lol, i hate this; the beta vids and commentaries, all the journalists and critics talking about the game.
It is like Starcraft 2 is just this awesome exclusive game that only a room full of people are allowed to play. Sometimes people forget that not everyone got a key. You are talking about a game that 95% of Starcraft fans haven't even played.

I can understand where you are coming from, but as @John Funk: put it, this only will make it all the more delicious when the game is released. I like to look at it as even more preview and preparation for when I will get to play, learning strategies and not having to use two weeks in single player alone just to get used to the mechanics and all the new units. Blizzard makes a good story, therefore making the single player all the more fun, but the real meat and potatoes of Starcraft is the multiplayer. And that I would like to get into all the sooner. And since I didn't get my own golden ticket, I'm gonna be taking notes from those who did.

lol you are absolutely right i suppose, its not as if they are spoiling the story, sometimes i even forget that its not all gonna be about the multiplayer, and hell, its gonna grab me by the balls till it ships, and then when it does, it will let them go and it will be the best feeling ever, i stand corrected

as the greatest commercial ever created once told us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcdDg30VBgo&feature=related

good things come to those who wait

Don't think I ever saw that commercial before, but it is epic. Thanks for sharing it.
Here's to waiting for good times ahead...cheers!

 

[cartographer54]

Hahaha, thanks for implying that I should NOT to go easy on any people who say they're drunk! XD

 

[TitsMcGee1804]

lol, i hate this; the beta vids and commentaries, all the journalists and critics talking about the game.
It is like Starcraft 2 is just this awesome exclusive game that only a room full of people are allowed to play. Sometimes people forget that not everyone got a key. You are talking about a game that 95% of Starcraft fans haven't even played.

I can understand where you are coming from, but as @John Funk: put it, this only will make it all the more delicious when the game is released. I like to look at it as even more preview and preparation for when I will get to play, learning strategies and not having to use two weeks in single player alone just to get used to the mechanics and all the new units. Blizzard makes a good story, therefore making the single player all the more fun, but the real meat and potatoes of Starcraft is the multiplayer. And that I would like to get into all the sooner. And since I didn't get my own golden ticket, I'm gonna be taking notes from those who did.

lol you are absolutely right i suppose, its not as if they are spoiling the story, sometimes i even forget that its not all gonna be about the multiplayer, and hell, its gonna grab me by the balls till it ships, and then when it does, it will let them go and it will be the best feeling ever, i stand corrected

as the greatest commercial ever created once told us

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcdDg30VBgo&feature=related

good things come to those who wait

Don't think I ever saw that commercial before, but it is epic. Thanks for sharing it.
Here's to waiting for good times ahead...cheers!

you are welcome, it doesnt get any better than that