View From the Road: It's Time to Grow Up

[sketch_zeppelin]

I think one of the reasons folks want to hide the fact that they play WoW is that its basically the new version of Dungeons & Dragons and popular media (even though its bullshit) continues to represent the D&D player as the lowest form of social reject, so despite WoW's popularity people still realize that there role playing as fantasy creatures in a fantasy world and they don't want folks to know it lest they think back to that one episode of that one show with the pathetic D&D player and assume thats you as well.

Its sad really becasue they are afraid of being associating with a group dynamic that doesn't really exist (90% or D&D players are prefectly normal).

Folks, you don't have to be a nerd to like WoW or D&D...and even if you do then who the fuck cares as long as your having fun?

 

[hyperdrachen]

View From the Road: It's Time to Grow Up

If the RealID fiasco demonstrated anything, it was that we gamers need to start acting like adults.

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Some of these people might be echoing genuine shame but you're kind of forgetting one side of the equation. It may not be the player, but the one that discovers they are a player that has the issue.

I'm not so sure it's a question of being ashamed. A lot of employers have skewed ideas of what gamers are like, labelling them as slackers or thinking they'll be unreliable because some horrendous WoW addiction will take over their lives. Might seem silly to some, but if the person's desperate for a job, or to keep the one they have, not advertising their hobbies might make a big difference.

This actually happens. It doesn't always have to be the getting the job that is in question either. A local Resturaunt passed up an employee for a managerial position due to something they found on her myspace page. It was simply photos of her at a party, not even doing anything compromising. But the store owner drew a line. Likes to party = unreliable. It's not nescessarily true and it's damn sure not fair. I feal like you guys that write about games for a living have a very skewed perspective on what isn't a big deal being public info. Games are your profession, somone knowing you play wow isn't a problem... it's a credential. Some people see gaming in a harsher light than binge drinking. Unfortunatly many of these people own buisnesses and make legislation. You cite the CIO of Starbucks attributing his leadership skills to WoW, but it's easy to lay it on the table when you're already a big shot.

"Why should we ever be ashamed of our hobby? We're all gamers here, we love games of uncountable shapes and sizes. We're quick to defend this passion of ours against all comers, too. When a film critic says that games will never be art, we talk about the games that have affected us profoundly. When an Australian attorney-general stands in the way of a proper 18+ rating in his country, we point out that the average gamer is in his thirties."

Seeing the need for privacy and shame are not the same thing, and the thousands of us commoners that chimed in on these discussions were not doing so under our real names. Not all of us have the luxury of lending our voice and identity to the defense of gaming. Not all of us have jobs that encourage it. People have been screwed out of jobs/promotions for far pettier things than being a gamer.

Do you think couples are ashamed they have sex? No, but that doesn't need to turn it into a public announcement.

Time for some dramatization to illustrate a point:

Consider pornography. It's essentially a multimillion dollar industry in every country it's in. You don't see those kinds of numbers if your customer base is a.01% wierdo crossection of the population. These people are teachers, corperate executives, and surgeons. They don't hurt anyone or try to enact thier fancies on helpless victims. But if it ever became public knowledge that they view pornography, some of them might get off with some public humiliation, some would completely lose thier job and further thier career.

So I agree, it is time to grow up. Certainly anyone who exemplifies your idea of the ashamed player, but only to replace thier irrational shame, with an awareness of the real issue at hand. However, with respect to your article, it's actually not the gamers, but everyone else that needs a reality check. You have sharply understimated the wrath of the irrational, especially when WoW, in particular, catches so much media heat.

 

[hyperdrachen]

Don't forget certain companies won't hire you if your a known WoW player, and women/men/signifigant others are crazy on the BEST of days.

What the fuck? Isn't discrimination like that illegal?

No descrimination laws cover, race, religion, gender... Things that either were not your choice, or are seen as inextricable from you as a person(religion). Being a gamer, having piercings, or liking harry potter don't give you any legal backing. It's shitty I agree, but I don't think this is where the law needs to step in. You can't legislate the sickness out of society. Even anti-racism laws were preceded by people seeing a problem with it and acting on societal view first. The legislation came later. This sort of thing just takes time to weed out. Eventually Company A, is going to lose a great employee to company B cause they passed him over due to his WoW playing. Company B will put A out of buisness because they were more focused on the strength he brought to the company and now have superior products and services due to his leadership/ideas/skills.

 

[oranger]

Interesting. The thing is though, I don't really think all the problem lies with gaming in general, although obviously part does, but more just with WoW itself. Like it or not, you can't deny that WoW is the most well known MMO out there, very likely the most well known PC game out there, and to those who don't play games, maybe even the most well known game, period. With this comes a whole bucket of negative stereotypes. WoW is known as the game that you get addicted to, in and outside the gaming community. How true this actually is doesn't factor. If there's ever a piece about game addiction, what's the main game likely to be? World of Warcraft. It's the accepted scapegoat for all game addiction cases.

Now, there's no real reason to be ashamed about playing WoW, but some people think there is. When you say you play WoW to some people, the first thing they're going to think is "This person is addicted to it".

What I'm saying is, I don't think the people who wanted to hide the fact that they play WoW from their friends and family were ashamed of being gamers, more that they were ashamed of being WoW players, in the same way that some people are ashamed of smoking. It's seen as an addiction by mainstream media, not a game.

I myself haven't really met any gamers who feel the need to hide their gaming, or are ashamed about it, but I have met WoW players who are ashamed of it. Which is stupid anyway, but you get what I'm saying.

Either that, or there's a LOT more addicts out there then most people are comfortable believing.

 

[Falke]

See, now that you have explained about the Warhammer bit, it makes ALOT more sense now than it did before. But I will say that quite frankly, personal hobbies should never be discussed by interviewers. (Unless it is not illegal in the area you live in) It is a severe violation of personal space by the interviewer. If I ever heard the question, "Do you collect Star Wars items?" I'd would tell them, "That is not a question I will answer." I don't, but that isn't something you ask.

I completly agree. No one should ever ask those questions. But things like this happen. They certainly happend to me. And caused trouble. SO then someoen scolds me for being "ashamed" of my hobby I think it's not too strange that I feel a bit anoyed since that decision is forced on me by my suroundings and standing proud for games is not worth my career. It's easy to asume different if you work in the gaming industry or are still at school or college (in which case I asure you that there's some harsh lessons in for you once it is over.).

 

[Negatempest]

See, now that you have explained about the Warhammer bit, it makes ALOT more sense now than it did before. But I will say that quite frankly, personal hobbies should never be discussed by interviewers. (Unless it is not illegal in the area you live in) It is a severe violation of personal space by the interviewer. If I ever heard the question, "Do you collect Star Wars items?" I'd would tell them, "That is not a question I will answer." I don't, but that isn't something you ask.

I completly agree. No one should ever ask those questions. But things like this happen. They certainly happend to me. And caused trouble. SO then someoen scolds me for being "ashamed" of my hobby I think it's not too strange that I feel a bit anoyed since that decision is forced on me by my suroundings and standing proud for games is not worth my career. It's easy to asume different if you work in the gaming industry or are still at school or college (in which case I asure you that there's some harsh lessons in for you once it is over.).

Now, that its all clear. The OP was NEVER talking about RealID in the 1st place, I was. Now I still agree with what he said. Even though you have your own legitimate reasons for not showing your hobby, the majority of complaints about RealID were in the form of "I don't wan't 'Blank' to know I play video games". From which comes the part of being ashamed of what you do. Not about getting in trouble with interviews, but that you don't want someone close to you to know that you play video games.

Though I enjoy how its okay and at times necessary for a wife to make snacks and meals for the "men" during super bowl season, but heaven forbid should a woman put up with a man that plays video games.

 

[ionveau]

You see, WoW and porn have alot of things in common,
1 is people dont want others to know they play
2 You dont want your full name printed on a porn website
3 Its socially unacceptable

Why people want the realID? well as they stated it will stop trolls on the forums but how?

Well you see troll bad talks you on a forum you look up his name and hunt him down.
You see it all works out other then that how will having realID be useful on a childrens video game

Most people that want this RealID are the bottem feeders of society, the ones that never leave home, the ones that look for social contact with others like them, We should not look harshly on them but i dont trust giving out my name to the crowd that WoW has formed,

Anyway I never use my real name on the internet my WoW name is made up etc

 

[Jinxey]

To me your response was heart felt but completely missed the point behind why I disagree with RealID.

I've been gaming since I was 5 (go dad !) and I now work in the gaming industry, have a wife that games and am raising a daughter to game. I'm not ashamed about it and am quite proud I followed my dream.

However my problem with RealID may go down to a "gaming generational" divide. I come from the gaming era of Dungeons and Dragons, Ultima Online, Counter-Strike and Space Quest. Our games didn't have the built in social networking we have today and guess what we got by fine with IRC, ICQ, AIM and E-mails. Or better yet we just piled up to our local server where, sing with me children, everyone knew your name.

Lately games have been building this overarching "social" element while dumping longstanding gaming conventions such as dedicated servers and handles. This globalization of "friendship" smacks more of a marketing schema for recruitment then something genuinely made to help you keep in contact with your friends. I say this because, like I said earlier, the system we had back in the 80's and 90's was just as functional to keep in contact with our good friends in the virtual world.

I really wish gamers of this generation could have my experience growing up - I watch them play at big LANS and they don't even care anymore. "Oh I just got this achievement" to which I reply "great but you lost us the match". "Oh my friend Jeremy said this funny thing..." "Keep comms quite, some of us are trying to play". To get my full curmudgeon on, back in MY day there was an art to the play now it's just e-peening. Don't get me wrong we e-peened back then but today we're building gaming social system around it "Well I have 250 friends therefore I'm right" or "I don't need to pay attention my friend James is telling me what do do right now and he has an achievement score of 9001".

At the end of the day I got into gaming because I loved to explore new worlds, new characters or genuinely enjoy the gameplay itself. I also liked meeting new people online, but here's the tricky bit. Playing as an avatar lets real life people be someone new. Disconnecting yourself from your IRL life lets you try new things in the virtual world. So even if I'm not meeting the real person, I'm meeting what they want to be right now. And hey if we're friends long enough the real person always shines through, it's worked for 20 years it's not broke.

This whole trend of "YOU are the character" seems to stand in direct opposition of what I like about gaming. I don't want to be Brian - I want to be Jinxey, or Mahl'izar, or Duke Nukem.

The TL;DR of it is
Put the achievements away, Close your friends list, and just have a bloody good time playing the game as who you want to be right now.

 

[RvLeshrac]

I finally figured out what the problem with RealID is, in relationship to this article. I'm going to use Funk as an example because, well, he wrote the article.

John Funk is a games journalist. He talks about games. He writes articles about games. His prospective employers want someone who plays games, and they likely want someone who games quite a lot. They also want someone who can write well, obviously. John Funk wants these prospective employers to know that he plays WoW, obviously, since that's a Very Popular game and Blizzard generates a lot of content for him to write about.

Well, what happens if John Funk writes some *abysmal* WoW fanfiction, and posts it on the WoW boards? Perhaps John Funk isn't quite as well-equipped to write in that format, maybe he was drunk, for whatever reason, this fanfiction is abysmal. Some of the worst crap to ever grace the world of fanfiction.

Under the current system, John Funk can post as SirHidingMyIdentity, and no one will be able to connect him with this horrible trash.

Under a system like RealID, people immediately know who the author was. Every time John Funk tries to get a job, the prospective employer sees this hideous garbage he once wrote. Now, John Funk has to explain this away. He has to explain this away every time he meets a person, not merely when he's looking for a job, but in his social life, as well.

And now I understand why Alec Guinness was such a bitter jackass when dealing with Star Wars fans. From the day he set foot on the set, he had to explain to every person he met why he did the role, and how he was really a good actor. Instead of dying a man known for being an amazing star of the stage, he's known as Obi-Wan Kenobi.

 

[Jinxey]

To say gamers need to grow up is, to me, shooting at your saddle buddy. We are grown up. We also live in a grown up world where sometimes things are fine to want to keep private, even if they are overall accepted socially. This is perhaps why you were so regularly misunderstood on this one.

Basically this .

I don't "want the world to know" because they don't need to know. This is my hobby and I only wish to spend it with like minded people whom I find in the world. I don't care about Bob the CEO who works in my office plays on my server, good for Bob. I wasn't looking to strengthen my relationship with Bob I was looking to enjoy the game as it was.

Now if I meet Bob as Darkstrider and we build a relationship together and we find out? now that is classic gaming .

 

[tehroc]

If they're going to reject my application based not on my qualifications, but on what I like to do for fun, then I didn't want to work there anyhow.

-m

Yes your right, everyone can be picky about what jobs they work these days. As there are so many jobs spots open everywhere and spiraling out of control. There is so many jobs available we have to outsource to undeveloped countries. Sorry bud some of us have to work for a living, some of us work two jobs just to make ends meet. Most of us cant write an article on gaming and then call it a day. Methinks because you have a job you like that all of us have the exact same opportunities, you take the job search in today's broken economy for granted. I for one would rather not have any disadvantages in the job search like being labeled a slacker for playing games.

 

[tehroc]

Also to John Funk. I understand the article and what it is talking about and agree. To those that say they don't want their bosses to know that they play World of Warcraft, quite frankly that is a personal question that is quite illegal in the USA to ask(I don't know about else where). That is the same as asking the questions, "Do you party a lot?", "Do you watch sports?" "Do you watch fantasy movies like Lord of the Rings?". An employer asking such personal questions is none of their business. Though asking such questions in our personal environment or during interviews is completely different than getting your real name in a video game website where others share the same freakin hobby.

You do realize employers dont ask, they just do a quick google search without your permission and viola! If they decided to not hire you because of your hobbies they wont even bother telling you that, you just wont get a call back.

 

[oathblade]

As soon as comic books are treated as worth of being read by adults then society will be mature enough to handle games. Till then you can take your agressive posture and shove it up your pipeland.

 

[Tharwen]

Surely if you can show yourself to be responsible while hiding it, that means it's not affecting you and you can safely show the world your hobby without it being a detriment to you.

 

[Cuppa Tetleys]

I'm not technically an adult, but I absolutely agree; gamers, or anyone with any hobby should not be ashamed of doing what they love. By acting ashamed, it just makes others feel awkward about the subject and the more you try and hide it, the worse it gets.
Although this is the right way to go about things, I myself am still not entirely open about me being a gamer. If I'm directly asked I would say 'yes, yes I am', but to any non-gamer I would stop there and cease to ever mention the topic again. I don't deny the fact that I am a gamer, I just think I would bore everyone to death If I told them that my favourite plot twist in modern fiction is the one in Bioshock and that I just completed metroid prime to 100% for the second time on hard mode. I kind of think it would change people's opinion of me if I did so, so I generally keep it on the down low.

 

[Cuppa Tetleys]

Edit: You know what, here's my unedited, 'I don't care about appearing uncivil' response. This article is just bad. It reeks of either someone who is so stuck in their own view they can't see others, a fanboy who is being apologetic, or someone who's being paid off.

This article is not about RealID. Stop trying to make it about RealID. You're missing the point.

What is your point? You begin your article by saying that, by loads of people stating they want to keep their gaming private, they must be ashamed of what they do. You don't bother to present any evidence for this claim, you just say that they're 'diving under the covers like a pubescent kid hiding a purloined Playboy'.

I told you WHY people are right to criticise having our real names forcibly attached to our gaming choice of habit, and thus why your assumption that 'They're against it because they're ashamed!' is flawed.

I know your entire article is not on that, I was refuting that one idea.

Sorry to but in, but John is not trying to say that ALL gamers who want to keep their hobby private are ashamed of it, but that if we keep hiding it that's what it will look like to the rest of the community - it's not about whether we are ashamed as gamers of our hobby, it's that if we act like it is, that's what gaming will appear to be to everyone else; something to be ashamed of. As a result of this, the gaming community will never grow and be recognised unless we, as gamers, are completely open with our love for video games.