Violence in games

[Aurgelmir]

So I am not from the US, and ergo we don't have the whole debate going here in Norway.

But I was watching a TV program last night, where they shed some light on the "violent" video games, and the fact that kids are playing these. (To contrast from american "news" networks, these program was very neutral in its presentation of the game, but they did of course show the infamous MW2 terrorist scene.

In Europe games get a age limit (which is mostly tentative), and the program named a bunch of games, and I thought to myself "Man thats a lot of the biggest titles in the past year."

So my though was this: "Why is it that all the 'good' games are considered to be suitable only for 18+ audience?"

So to complete off my introduction here, I was watching this at my parents house with my parents, and my mother asked a very valid question "Is it not possible to make kid friendly games, without making them too kiddy?"

My mother is one of those people that think that games are made generally for kids, so I explained to her that the biggest market is actually 20+ (Since we can buy more games)

TLDR:

Why are all the "good" games so violent?
Can we make awesome games, that are children friendly?


PS: Are kids today to stupid to play Civ5 and games like that? I was a huge Civ player when I was young...

 

[MrShowerHead]

Violence sells well. Kids are going to buy that, or at least make their parents buy it. Kids want action.

And there are already good non-violent games out there. Like LBP

 

[Last Bullet]

I'd guess the good games are violent is that's just kind of what works. It's designed for "older" players, and older players have money, so obviously the game is going to be bought. Makes stuff for the folks with money. Sure, there can be a few games suitable for younger players, it's even possible to not make them to kiddy.

In my area, yes, kids seem to be getting dumber. To a scary level. My mother is a teacher's assistant and... I've heard a lot of stories, let's just say that.

 

[oplinger]

The awesome games are so violent because as a species, conflict interests us. (for various reasons) easiest way to show conflict? Violence.

Yes we can, and have on many occasions. Maybe not recently, but there are plenty of high profile games heralded as the greatest games of all time, that are not really adult oriented.

...And yes kids are too stupid. Maybe not too stupid to play Civ 5, but kids are generally, like most people, stupid. ..I don't know why, but it seems like being intelligent gets you shunned >.> ..Thats a whole different topic though.

Personally, A good portion of my favorite games aren't really that violent. Unless you were to say any violence is violent.

 

[Keava]

Plenty of good games get 16+ rating, but it comes down to what one considers entertainment.

The market for shooters is quite big, how do you make a shooter without making it violent? Sure, you can give everyone a squirt gun and pew pew water or throw water balloons at people but that looses it's charm very very fast. Even NERF gun won't really change things much.

Next on the run you have action hack and slash games. Hard to hack and slash if you cut out the violence part now ain't it? Can you imagine Kratos in pillow fight with Zeus? Would make awesome mini-game for a short play-through once a month, but not something people will actually play day and night.

When it comes to RPGs i think BioWare sums it up the best. They want to make games for mature players, they don't really bother with family-friendly content there. They add violence because be it high-tech future or medieval fantasy, violence is persistent through-out human evolution. Cutting it out would make the worlds feel artificial.
You have loads of jRPGs that are aimed for teen on the other hand. Those are tame, the combat is more funny than realistic and the actual violence is not really that detailed.

RTSes generally split into two camps as well. You have bloody ones (CoH/DoW) and you have teen friendly (SC, Mech based, etc.) Still you can't really remove violence from a war simulator.

Games grew up with their audience. Back when i started gaming majority of my games were platformers, economy sims, racing games, violence was limited to those few shooters like Wolfenstein3D or Doom.

 

[Drudgelmir]

I personally disagree with age ratings, I think there should be psycholgical testing in oder to player certain games. Take the Manhunt fiasco a few years ago, the boy didn't kill because he was too young, it was because he was too impressionable, had difficulty distinguishing fiction from reality and already had a predisposition to kill. To quote Marcus Brigstocke "if we were all influenced by the games we played when we were young, we'd be running round in the dark, listening to repetitive music and popping pills."

On the other thing, when I was 7/8 I was a massive Civ player (and other games like it) so I don't think it's because children are too thick, perhaps it's because we live in an age of instant gratification. Ho-hum.

Ps. Awesome name.

 

[Rikdyou]

I need violence to keep me sane hahahahahaahahahahahahahahaHAHAHAHA

 

[Aurgelmir]

I'd guess the good games are violent is that's just kind of what works. It's designed for "older" players, and older players have money, so obviously the game is going to be bought. Makes stuff for the folks with money. Sure, there can be a few games suitable for younger players, it's even possible to not make them to kiddy.

In my area, yes, kids seem to be getting dumber. To a scary level. My mother is a teacher's assistant and... I've heard a lot of stories, let's just say that.

I agree with you here, it is us over 20 that has the money.

But my question, or in fact my mothers question was:

Is it possible to create a game that gives the same thrills, without the violence.
LBP was mentioned, and it is a great game, but it still feels kiddy.

Let's make an example:

Assassins Creed, is in its own rather violent. It has a lot of other awesome qualities, but to an 11 year old I'd assume the fun factor is "I get to stab people in the gut with my wrist blade"

So lets say we want to make a game that is as deep, and entertaining as AC, without it being about assassinations. How do we do this?

 

[Banana Phone Man]

People want what they can't have. This includes breaking rules. SUre in real life they may not want to break rules or be violent but when inside a game you can go wild as it will only harm your own mind. And it is because of this that kids want violent games which are usually +18 so sales of them increase and are therefore considered good.

 

[Alex.p.]

"Why is it that all the 'good' games are considered to be suitable only for 18+ audience?"
What are you talking about..mario,zelda,pokemon are some of the greatest game franchises and games ever and they are not 18+ (also i'm going to include viva pinata just cause it's beyond awesome)

 

[Anah'ya]

We humans, as a species, are violent.

It is in our nature and manifests itself from the early years on. I can hardly recall any sort of game (before the computer or consoles even brushed with my life) played in my childhood that were peaceful by choice.

Cowboys and Indians (in all its colorful variations) to name one example. Even boardgames usually boiled down to defeating your enemy in one way or the other. To recall the games I played after that: Super Mario and other Mario variations and the cartoons that were available to watch, I can hardly say that those are any less violent. More colorful and tamed in their presentation, but do you really think it feels nice to get stomped into the ground by a fat Italian stomping on your head?

So. Yeah. Violence will continue to dominate the landscape of our entertainment. Least we don't round up people in a stadium and have them duke it out while we sit around and cheer at the bloody massacre. Not anymore, anyway.

... as for why the big games are so explicitly violent without trying to hide it: Audience, as everyone else already pointed out. There are plenty of games for kids out there. Games to draw them in and keep them playing, until one day they will reach the age where they can use their money to buy more games. And the circle closes. And keeps going 'round and 'round.

Now the question would be: Why do parents buy their children games that are not suited for them

 

[Drudgelmir]

People don't just want what they can't have this is the problem. For instance games like need for speed and FIFA sell bucketloads (those are some huge buckets...) but there is nothing to stop people playing football or racing (admittedly it wouldn't be street racing) Personally I think people are morons with a cattle mentality, why did CoD sell so many copies? Because of the multiplayer, same with Motorstorm, Moh, CS:S etc The time of intellingent mainstream games is over it's left to 'indie' developers like whoever made braid to challenge us mentally and recieve gratification from that.

 

[Nexus4]

People want what they can't have. This includes breaking rules. SUre in real life they may not want to break rules or be violent but when inside a game you can go wild as it will only harm your own mind. And it is because of this that kids want violent games which are usually +18 so sales of them increase and are therefore considered good.

Pretty much this concerning kids. Though the whole "People want what they can't have" also applies to adults, its more in the case of people want what they are not willing to do. You can commits crimes and go on rampages in games because it is not real, you can do this in real life if you really want to fuck up your life. But the point is that it provides a respite from your limits as a social person. People don't want to play simulated Frisbee-throwing because it is something we can all just get up and do without repercussions. People want violence because it is so far removed from what we are willing to do, it is enjoyable because it is 'alien' to our own lives; this provides a fun break from reality.

 

[Kurokami]

So I am not from the US, and ergo we don't have the whole debate going here in Norway.

But I was watching a TV program last night, where they shed some light on the "violent" video games, and the fact that kids are playing these. (To contrast from american "news" networks, these program was very neutral in its presentation of the game, but they did of course show the infamous MW2 terrorist scene.

In Europe games get a age limit (which is mostly tentative), and the program named a bunch of games, and I thought to myself "Man thats a lot of the biggest titles in the past year."

So my though was this: "Why is it that all the 'good' games are considered to be suitable only for 18+ audience?"

So to complete off my introduction here, I was watching this at my parents house with my parents, and my mother asked a very valid question "Is it not possible to make kid friendly games, without making them too kiddy?"

My mother is one of those people that think that games are made generally for kids, so I explained to her that the biggest market is actually 20+ (Since we can buy more games)

TLDR:

Why are all the "good" games so violent?
Can we make awesome games, that are children friendly?


PS: Are kids today to stupid to play Civ5 and games like that? I was a huge Civ player when I was young...

Not stupid, just impatient.

I gave my sister a game to play and after she failed to understand how to perform a certain task simply gave up and claimed the game was 'stupid'.

I think plenty of games can be just as good without excessive gore, and many are good without violence at all, but truth be told, and here's the part that seems to scare people although looking at TV and even the news I'd have to say I find it a normal ideal, I like gore in games, I like gore in general, Violence in itself is a spectacle we enjoy watching daily. (for the most part)

Anyway, some games nowadays allow you to dissable blood effects and harsh language and such, most don't bother however because as I said they are in part (in my opinion not the harsh language so much) a bonus to the game.

 

[getbonus]

Why are games not drenched from head to toe in blood and entrails immediately labeled 'kiddy'? Violence in games does not bother me, but the fact that people won't play a game unless it's graphically violent does.

 

[General_Potatoes]

They have made good non violent games but not as many people play them.
Thats why there are heaps of violent games because people just like violence more i guess.

 

[Last Bullet]

I'd guess the good games are violent is that's just kind of what works. It's designed for "older" players, and older players have money, so obviously the game is going to be bought. Makes stuff for the folks with money. Sure, there can be a few games suitable for younger players, it's even possible to not make them to kiddy.

In my area, yes, kids seem to be getting dumber. To a scary level. My mother is a teacher's assistant and... I've heard a lot of stories, let's just say that.

I agree with you here, it is us over 20 that has the money.

But my question, or in fact my mothers question was:

Is it possible to create a game that gives the same thrills, without the violence.
LBP was mentioned, and it is a great game, but it still feels kiddy.

Let's make an example:

Assassins Creed, is in its own rather violent. It has a lot of other awesome qualities, but to an 11 year old I'd assume the fun factor is "I get to stab people in the gut with my wrist blade"

So lets say we want to make a game that is as deep, and entertaining as AC, without it being about assassinations. How do we do this?

*Mouth hangs open uselessly* Erm... In terms of the assassinations... Cartoonify it? For whatever reason, I keep getting this potentially badass image in my head of Sackboy (of LBP fame) using a needle and thread to stitch his arm back on after some epic battle.

But to remove violence completely... You could make a sort of courier-service game. Not sure how horribly fun that would be, but with some humor or an interesting art style you could take the parkour of Assassin's Creed or a similar game and make it accessible to kids.

Honestly, I don't know. I'm not a good person to ask. I think the only nonviolent (in any way) games I've really played are like Animal Crossing and The Sims. I'm not big on sports games or simulations. Most games I play have good guys and bad guys, and the two... fight.

But is ALL violence marked as bad? I mean, kids love superheroes, right? Superheroes... fight people. They beat the living crap out of people. As long as it retains some degree of fantasy, is it really that big of a deal? If blood and gore isn't spilled, is it ok? Like The Legend of Zelda series... or Megaman. I loved those series as a kid.

 

[Aurgelmir]

*Mouth hangs open uselessly* Erm... In terms of the assassinations... Cartoonify it? For whatever reason, I keep getting this potentially badass image in my head of Sackboy (of LBP fame) using a needle and thread to stitch his arm back on after some epic battle.

But to remove violence completely... You could make a sort of courier-service game. Not sure how horribly fun that would be, but with some humor or an interesting art style you could take the parkour of Assassin's Creed or a similar game and make it accessible to kids.

Honestly, I don't know. I'm not a good person to ask. I think the only nonviolent (in any way) games I've really played are like Animal Crossing and The Sims. I'm not big on sports games or simulations. Most games I play have good guys and bad guys, and the two... fight.

But is ALL violence marked as bad? I mean, kids love superheroes, right? Superheroes... fight people. They beat the living crap out of people. As long as it retains some degree of fantasy, is it really that big of a deal? If blood and gore isn't spilled, is it ok? Like The Legend of Zelda series... or Megaman. I loved those series as a kid.

No no, we don't need to remove all forms of action, that won't sell I think.

But I think what I am getting it is why does it seem that most games are either "kiddy" or "super violent"?

But yeah there are games that are action based without being really considered violent. Shadow of Colossus I would call that. It has action, it has fighting, but you wouldn't really deny your 11 year old that game?

I personally think Halo is more kid friendly than MW2, mainly because its more distanced from reality.
I think the biggest issue normal people that are against violent games, are against the very realistic ones...

PS: I would like to ad that I personally am not against the games, I am just interesting in figuring out why it seems so many games today are so freaking violent.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I don't have much sympathy for the people who say that their games are only made for adults publicly then privately market them to kids and count the money. If they are not outright lying they are not being totally honest with themselves. They deserve Jack Thompson and mainstream critics looking down on games as an "art."

Thinking that kids are not going to play violent action games is nonsense since in reality they mostly are not going to be that interested in much else. The only question should be what sort of violent content is suitable for kids and how the content should be tailored for them in a positive way. Literature is tackling this head on with the concept of young adult fiction while game developers have their head in the sand by saying you are either playing "kiddie" Nintendo games or are a 30 year old responsibly playing Call of Duty or GTA.