Violent games - are we being hypocrites after all?

[lacktheknack]

I might not have much to say here, as I'm the only guy in existence who turned off the blood in "Fallout". I like a good FPS as much as the next guy, but games like Gears of War make me feel positively nauseous. Too much blood makes me feel uncomfortable.

The only game genre where you can put violence completely off its tits is horror, because it's no longer about "adrenaline rush" and more about "scaring the everloving crap out of you".

 

[lenneth]

Violence can make things more fun. plain and simple.
If all Store clerks are required to ask fo ID when someone buys something MA or R then responsibillity lies more with the parents not the store.

Killing in real life is VERY different to killing in a game. in a game when you kill something there is no big consequence, no pain is felt (SOTC and key story moments in other such games aside)

 

[RoThgar]

I just wanted to add a little corner of my mind into this debate. I personally think that while defending our way of entertainment is noble, some people are going the wrong way about it.

Anyway, the reason behind all the violence and immersion is because, gaming, like other art and entertainment forms, are an escape from reality. The more immersed and real it seems, the more we are soaked into it. Side effects thereof are for another discussion. The point is that, most people will never come close to experiencing anything like real combat, or going into space, or fighting monsters.

Gaming is a way of treating yourself to a tiny part of that reality, excitement and experience. Someone once said (don't quote me on this, but I think it might have been Churchill) "Being shot at and surviving is the singly most exhilarating thing a man may experience" So this is why people play military scenarios, play as heros, play as things they cannot experience in normal life.

Unfortunately where this comes into the boundaries of reality is that the human mind learns by repetition and experience, playing these games does have side effects, that to most people, are just part and parcel of playing. To others who are too immature or inexperienced enough to distinguish between their urge to experience what they are playing, and the reality that it is not something that you can normally do; is where we start to get the idea that gaming is bad.

The way to defend gaming, as they do with other art forms that cross taboos and cause revulsion in others, is to see the root cause of it. Parental guidance in upbringing and emotional development has made everyone here into an adult human being. Unfortunately for the generations now, and to come, parents have seen games as a baby sitter, some not taking too much care as to the content of said games.

The way to defend games is to say, if someone is deemed mature enough to drink, to drive, to watch 18 rated films, to vote etc. etc. they are mature enough to play whatever they like. conversely if you would not show a violent film to a child, you would not let them play CoD or Halo or anything like that where violence and death are strongly themed. Sorry for drifting slightly off topic there.

 

[oktalist]

It's the ever same defenses that make me sick. It's how they're claiming that Counter-Strike, or CoD, or what-have-you, is nothing more than hide-and-seek and that the scenario doesn't matter, hell, you don't even recognize it after some time. I wonder, then, why don't we just play hide and seek? If it's nothing more than that - why don't we settle for some ASCII graphics of strawmen? Why all the guns, the military scenarios? Why the somewhat-realistic killing? What's that for, if we really don't care that much?

Well, perhaps some people really would be just as happy playing "virtual tag" with noobs online, and perhaps those are the people invoking that particular defence. However, we should be concerned with the broader demographic of gamers, so you are right to discard that particular argument. In the broader sense, obviously the violence is a major factor in appealing to the vast majority of gamers (who are thankfully not those who frequent these forums). It's just the free market giving people what they want (not that that necessarily makes it okay).

We should rather be asking why are people so drawn to violence in the first place?

 

[sgtshock]

All games are designed to have goals that the player must meet. The overcoming of obstacles is what makes games fun. And the simplest and (usually) most fun way to overcome obstacles is with virtual violence. While some games are able to have non violent objectives, such as Sim City, or Thief, it is always simplest to come up with a fun concept that involves killing and destroying. There's a reason you never see games like Diplomacy Simulator II. PLus, violence is usually more stress relieving.

 

[Internet Kraken]

I'm so sick of this. Let me be honest; I have researched this issue many times. I have come to the conclusion that both sides are wrong. Both sides are very resistant to compromises and refuse to acknowledge the credibility and legitimacy of the opposing parties arguments. The debate over violence in video games is going nowhere.

 

[Hugo Artenis Rune]

To quote ZP - "The best way to blow off steam is to blow off someones nadgers"..

He's correct in a way, although that's not the whole truth, at least not for me. I'm a whiny pacifist, and liberal - I've not been in a fight since my little brother hit me with a hammer when I was picking on him too much. And yet I love blowing characters into tiny fragments.. It's fun and thrilling. And I think it's simply because I'm a bloke and I've been alive since the mid seventies.

I'd guess that most of the men here are fairly similar. We've all grown up in an era where we're supposed to be sensitive, have a soft side, be interested in our emotions etc etc etc and at the same time we're kind of conditioned that we should ALSO be strong, capable and generally not to be messed with. I'm not saying we're actually *told* this by anyone - but it's hammered into our brains from an early age by endless TV series featuring Caring Men or Jack Bauer.. Our girlfriends and wives will shamelessly drool over some muscled hunk in a movie and three minutes later tell us off for not buying them flowers in a while.

So most of us choose the easier option - the one that involves just being nice and caring and avoiding conflict. However, in this world we're constantly surrounded by people telling us what to do.. From our bosses/teachers, our girlfriends, wives, mothers, fathers, all giving advice, prodding us to do things a certain way (and yes, I do the same thing back - but forget about that for now . Add to that list all the big faceless corporations who constantly ram advertising down our throats, and the bastards who send you letters saying they're going to take away your phone/house/car/possessions because you're a week late with a debt repayment.. Or the bank telling you that you owe them £20 and if you dont pay it back on time there will be repercussions (this coming from the people who've lost TRILLIONS and THEY'RE getting bailed out!).. And you have to.. And.. And..

And wouldn't it be GREAT if you were actually in CONTROL of your life for a while? Wouldn't it be GREAT if you were a total hardass? Wouldn't it be GREAT if you could actually DO the stuff your game character does? I have to admit, in all honesty, that I'd give my left nut to be like Neo in the matrix. Just being able to wake up in the morning and say "Well hey, I dont give a damn what the world throws at me because I know I could pull their kidneys out their noses if I desire". I'd love to be like Jack Bauer. Or even bloody Spiderman.

Of course, there is no way that I'll ever be able to do any of those things. I suppose I could go and learn Kung Fu or something, but to be honest I'm afraid of getting the crap kicked out of me whilst learning. So what I DO do is play violent computer games (and watch similar movies) because they allow me to fulfill the probably childish fantasy of being something I'm not. A total gung-ho ninja killer assassin who doesn't take any shit from anyone.

All I'm trying to say is that violent computer games offer us a chance to be something we're not - they allow us to be the hardest, the fastest, the strongest, the most dangerous and the one in control. Wanting to play them and enjoying them is NOT sick or depraved, it's nothing more than a release. If you really want sex but there is no willing vagina's around do you go out and rape someone? No, you sort yourself out. That doesn't make you a dangerous sexual deviant. If you want to scream at the world to back the hell off do you pick up a shotgun and wander down your local high street? No, you press a couple of buttons and make some red pixels appear out of some polygons. Does that make you a sociopath? No. If anything it'll probably allow you to chill out enough and face another day of putting up with the world.

My word, what a long, disjointed, rambling post. And it's my first one! Holy crap.

 

[Hugo Artenis Rune]

and ALSO: When the alien mutant robot zombies DO appear from another dimension who do you think are going to be called in to deal with the situation? That's right. WE ARE.

 

[Inconsistently Inconsistent]

Gaming takes us as the human race to a fantasy world. Whether it is a deep game or casual gaming, Gaming helps us escape from reality.

Violent videogames lets us experience an action that we would never do in real life (I hope).
That is my escape and I am not a hypocrite. Although, I understand certain people being (lack of a better word) uptight and not enjoying violent images which is understandable since we all did not grow up the same way.

 

[SimuLord]

Call me crazy, but I think the more over-the-top the violence, the less interesting the game. That's not to say I'm a pacifist (far from it---Total War is my favorite series), but the games I love to play competitively have more in common with sports, whether they're actual sports or business/tycoon style games that use dollars/gold pieces where sports would use points/goals/runs, especially if there's a trade element to it. I got crazy addicted to Puzzle Pirates once upon a time because it let me run what basically amounted to a corporation (we even called the guild The Hanseatic League) and the whole thrill was in controlling and dominating markets. My wife took care of all the ship combat on voyages while I handled the supply and logistics that most folks don't find to be much fun.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Games are based on violence for one simple reason: it's something that you can't do in real life without serious penalty. In fact, it's pretty much the ONLY thing you can't do in real life without serious penalty other than selling drugs or streaking through your community. If you fight something in real life, you risk getting hurt, and getting arrested. If we're going to simulate something it might as well be something we cant actually go out and do. If we could do it normally, why would we try to simulate it? We could just do it.

 

[mooncalf]

Violence in media is allowed because it's unarguably a step down from real world violence. If everyone were to disconnect from real violence/aggression (which is something we can hope will slowly happen.) Then maybe we can slowly begin to envision without discomfort or disgust a world without any violence, real or depicted.

 

[karmapolizei]

*SNIP*

Thank you, that was really something for me to build upon... if that's what comes if you're rambling, go on please
The "control" hypothesis is really interesting, I must admit I hadn't looked at it from that point yet. And the more I think about it, the more appealing it becomes - I think to look at it from this side explains a lot why these kinds of shootings happen in the first place: We, as human beings in general (and as men in a little more particular), like to be in control of things - however, we're not, because it's a complicated, highly divisional and what-have you world we live in. For the most part, that's ok, but to cope, we gotta get that control back - and that's where games, and violent ones in particular, come into place.

Now some people feel at such a lack of control that they have to fill that hole a little more - too much actually. I think you could say the difference between what kind of people they are in games and what they're like in the real world becomes so mind-bendingly large that they get... nuts, and what they're doing to fill that gap, well, we've seen it enough already.

So according to that, what would video games have to do with school shootings? A lot and nothing at all: They're pushing very few people over the edge, while they're actually KEEPING THE VAST MAJORITY SANE. Hm. I'll have to elaborate on that.

So, I just made up a hypothesis, everyone who feels like nuking it, feel free, it's needed.

I'm so sick of this. Let me be honest; I have researched this issue many times. I have come to the conclusion that both sides are wrong. Both sides are very resistant to compromises and refuse to acknowledge the credibility and legitimacy of the opposing parties arguments. The debate over violence in video games is going nowhere.

That kinda was why I started this in the first place. And I couldn't agree more, other than that we ought to make it go somewhere, because it's much needed.

 

[Hexadecimal16]

The answer to this is really pretty simple. Violent games relieve stress while simultaneously giving an adrenaline rush, and they're an escape from reality to an extent. Because let's face it, reality can be pretty boring and stressful. When I sit down to play a game the part of my brain that worries about 'real life' stuff shuts off and the part that's always alert and ready to mow down the opposing team trying to kill me is the only thing I'm focused on. People seem to forget that violence is human nature. It's as natural and as wired into our brains as sex is. Violence is just more controversial. I have no desire to actually shoot anyone in the head, but doing it in a game feels awesome.

 

[Kogarian]

Hell, I'd play hide and seek with you guys.

 

[doctorwhofan]

It takes a lot of military training to get most people to the point where they are willing to kill another human. I'm not sure how it is for cavemen.

...or natural uncaring of the human speciaes in genral.

QFT

 

[sokka14]

the vast majority of games, at their core, are about violence. it's part of what hooks us. personally, i'm not one for FPS's, and that applies more and more depending on how realistic it is. for example, i loved XIII for a multitude of reasons (story, gameplay, visuals etc), but i won't deny i enjoyed the violence. it's almost about the desire to do something i know i could never do in real life, but really, i just thought it was cool.
then there are games with more playful violence. mario or sonic for example. though less real, the violence is still part of what draws us in.

i don't think i could like a game which is purely about violence, because violence alone couldn't immerse me. i get immersed by a good story, good gameplay, and feeling my effort is pushing the story forward. i also need to be somewhat challenged physically (i use the term loosely) and mentally to feel accomplishment. the gameplay can be excellent without violence, and POP (especially the first one) is a good example of that. to this end i don't view violence as the immersion, but a (generally large) contributing factor. to some people it will be a larger contribution than to others. why? i haven't a clue. maybe it's innate, maybe it's cultural.

 

[Pseudonym2]

The key to drama is conflict and you can't get a more distilled sense of conflict then two people shooting each other.

When I think of immersion, I think of getting immersion in the act of playing a game, not the game world itself. I still get immersed in Jade Empire even through the obnoxious amount of loading screens and characters acting bizarrely.