Virtual Reality: How far do YOU want it?

Recommended Videos

Chessrook44

Senior Member
Legacy
Feb 11, 2009
559
3
23
Country
United States
With virtual reality approaching an actual existence a bit more with the Oculus (And the added device in the latest article, allowing you to actually RUN with it on without running into walls), I thought I'd ask... many probably would argue that it's not virtual reality. But how far do you want to go to get the level of virtual reality you'd be satisfied with? Holograms? Holodecks? Brain hookups? Something else?

For me, a perfected virtual reality has four hurdles it must overcome. When it manages to accomplish these four things, I'd say it's a success.

1: FEEL WHAT IS NOT THERE
This is the easiest, and to my knowledge we can actually do this... somewhat. I think there are gloves out there that can simulate pressure or temperature when touching something in a virtual world. It would be tricky to get it all over the body (Feeling the cold stone chest-high-wall against your back, the wind brushing through your hair, the feel of the love interest's kiss on your lips...) but it's something we're on the way towards.

2: NOT FEEL WHAT IS THERE
This is a tricky one... reaching a hand out where open space is in the virtual world, and feeling nothing but air, but where there is actually a wall halfway in the way in the real world. We can't do that now, and is a harder to do... probably one of the hardest jobs to do, next to number four.

3: NOT FEEL WITH WHAT IS THERE
This is actually something else that could be done, though to my knowledge it would be tricky to do reliably. What I mean by this can be explained thusly... say that, in game, your arm is chopped off (Star Wars game, perhaps?). If in Real Life you tried touching your arm, you'd feel it, when in game you should logically have your hand moving through the space where your arm should be, not feeling it on either side. While numming it or putting the limb to sleep would mean you would not be able to feel it, there doesn't seem to be any reliable way to do it reliably.

4: FEEL WITH WHAT IS NOT THERE
Let's say you're playing as some character that has a tail, for the sake of argument. In game, someone pulls on it, or it gets caught in a door, or something. You should be able to feel those sensations as if someone was actually touching a part of you. But the problem is figuring out what those sensations feel like, and how they would be communicated to your brain. Understanding a feeling that no human has ever experienced in millenia is limited to our imaginations, and not something I think our brains could easily accept. It gets even more complex when you move on into other senses. Heightened smells, extra eyes, or even, if you're getting really obscure, senses that don't exist except to the character in the game. This is the hardest hurdle to overcome, simply because of our lack of experience.

This is just my opinion of the four goals that must be overcome for a perfected virtual reality. And while I would settle for less (knowing that such a thing is not likely to occur within my lifetime), I'm curious. What do YOU want in your virtual reality?
 

gritch

Tastes like Science!
Feb 21, 2011
567
0
0
All these concepts are fine but you're under the assumption you need some sort of tactile stimulate to replicate them. Why do I have to have the nerves in my fingers relay the stimulus to my brain? What we perceive as touch, sight, or any sensation is a result of electrical impulses within the brain. If I have the sensation of "feeling" something it doesn't necessarily mean I am physically touching something only that my brain is receiving stimuli that it interprets as the sensation of touch.

Why not cut out the middle man, so to speak, and go straight to the brain? Tactile interfaces will always have technically limitations but bypassing physical interact itself helps expand the process considerably. With a sophisticated enough computer one could theoretically reproduce any sensation within our brain without physically stimuli and react to any output from the person's brain accordingly.

Furthermore I would consider the concept of a "perfect" virtual world to be incorrect. Our concept of reality itself is based entirely on the stimuli our brains receive and its subsequent interpretation. If we reproduce those same stimuli that world has essentially become the entire basis our "reality". Without another "reality" as a basis for our interpretation of this virtual stimuli, the virtual world would be reality itself.

Sorry about the wall of text there. It's late, I'm a tad sleep deprived, and I've had far too much time to contemplate this stuff. But as for what I'd want from virtual reality - I'd be fine with just augmented reality. This world hasn't been so bad to me that I'd like to escape it all. But the concept of a real life HUD just sounds so damn convenient.
 

Chessrook44

Senior Member
Legacy
Feb 11, 2009
559
3
23
Country
United States
The second commenter actually kinda answers the first commenter's question, at least partway... why not go straight to the brain? Two reasons actually.

The first is that, well, yes... there are many people out there who would get squicked out at the idea of the surgery, and would think that would be way too far for something like that.

The second is because, quite simply... we still don't fully understand how the brain works. I mean sure, I think we can guess what areas affect what spots of the body, or what flares up with activity when certain stimuli occurs, but we still don't know everything. We don't know how memories are stored, what causes us to perceive things the way we do, or anything like that. We know the what and the where, but not really the how or the why (And the who and when doesn't really come into it).

There is something I remember hearing once though... something about work being done that would turn Dreams into a sort of Virtual Reality. It seems a shortcut and the most likely way to get such a virtual reality in our lifetime, but that seems to limit us to things we can conceive ourselves. At least as far as I know. If you go by this logic Lucid Dreamers are probably the only people who could get anywhere close to Virtual Reality, and it's all self-made.
 

ecoho

New member
Jun 16, 2010
2,091
0
0
honestly i think Sword Art Online had what we as gamers would want,(within reason i mean no one wants to actually die if they die in game) a fully emmersive feels like your real body but isnt experiance.
 

Evil Moo

Always Watching...
Feb 26, 2011
392
0
0
I want the Matrix.

Heck, I would be happy to be a brain in a jar being fed a fantasy world of my own design. Imagine it.

Everyone in the world is living out their wildest dreams, kept alive by automated sustainable systems. With everyone on a minimal life support system, there would be no food shortages. Everyone is in their own world so no one can cause any suffering to anyone else and even if they can visit each others universes, it is virtual, no harm can be done. No responsibilities. No obligations. Just whatever you want whenever you want it. This does rely on creating a decent direct to mind interface, but I'm optimistic that this will happen eventually.
 

The Event

New member
Aug 16, 2012
105
0
0
I'd love the direct brain interface total immersion video game where everything seemed as real as reality.
Not that I want to give up reality for fantasy, but I would like my escapism to be as realistic as possible.
 

wintercoat

New member
Nov 26, 2011
1,691
0
0
I want it deep enough to be able to fully escape into it as though it was the real world, minus extreme pain and suffering, and death.

I want one or two steps below the Matrix, minus the "not knowing your in a simulation" bit.

I want to feel the weight of the clothes on my virtual body, feel the wind on my skin, the warmth of the sun. I want to feel the rain falling on my face, the rough textures of stone, the smoothness of metal. I want to smell the fresh-cut grass, taste and smell the food, hear the ambient sounds around me in my virtual setting as though I was there.

I want Reality 2.0.
 

gritch

Tastes like Science!
Feb 21, 2011
567
0
0
Chessrook44 said:
Don't get me wrong I wouldn't really want someone cutting into my brain to create a virtual reality either. But if we're talking about making a "perfect" virtual world I think it'd be our best shot. Any sort of perfect virtual world is quite a ways off though.

I think research into virtual reality should try to focus on bettering our current world rather than creating an entirely new one. For example use augmented reality to help display useful information (oxygen level, orientation, building layout) directly to a firefighter to make his job safer and more efficient.

ecoho said:
honestly i think Sword Art Online had what we as gamers would want,(within reason i mean no one wants to actually die if they die in game) a fully emmersive feels like your real body but isnt experiance.
I actually just started watching that before posting here. The world sounds interesting and I'd be lying if I as a gamer wouldn't have loved to be a part of that game. I can't help but notice quite a lot of plot holes though which I'm hoping are explained by the end (but I haven't finished it yet so please no spoilers).
 

ecoho

New member
Jun 16, 2010
2,091
0
0
gritch said:
Chessrook44 said:
Don't get me wrong I wouldn't really want someone cutting into my brain to create a virtual reality either. But if we're talking about making a "perfect" virtual world I think it'd be our best shot. Any sort of perfect virtual world is quite a ways off though.

I think research into virtual reality should try to focus on bettering our current world rather than creating an entirely new one. For example use augmented reality to help display useful information (oxygen level, orientation, building layout) directly to a firefighter to make his job safer and more efficient.

ecoho said:
honestly i think Sword Art Online had what we as gamers would want,(within reason i mean no one wants to actually die if they die in game) a fully emmersive feels like your real body but isnt experiance.
I actually just started watching that before posting here. The world sounds interesting and I'd be lying if I as a gamer wouldn't have loved to be a part of that game. I can't help but notice quite a lot of plot holes though which I'm hoping are explained by the end (but I haven't finished it yet so please no spoilers).
understand right now that that series is based off a novel so theres gonna be some plotholes, myadvice to you is watch the whole thing and then read the wiki on the novels a lot of the plotholes are just things they couldn't put in do to time/money constrants(it wasn't expected to be this big a hit.)
 
Oct 12, 2011
561
0
0
Evil Moo said:
I want the Matrix.

Heck, I would be happy to be a brain in a jar being fed a fantasy world of my own design. Imagine it.

Everyone in the world is living out their wildest dreams, kept alive by automated sustainable systems. With everyone on a minimal life support system, there would be no food shortages. Everyone is in their own world so no one can cause any suffering to anyone else and even if they can visit each others universes, it is virtual, no harm can be done. No responsibilities. No obligations. Just whatever you want whenever you want it. This does rely on creating a decent direct to mind interface, but I'm optimistic that this will happen eventually.
Nyarlathotep would be so proud.

OT: I'm going to second (or third, or whatever) the notion of a "perfect" virtual reality as going to far. The whole, if you die in the matrix you die in real life" thing just comes to mind at that point.

As for how to produce those sensations, I think that sensor technology that reads brain waves is coming along quite nicely. The whole notion of being able to transmit sensation without any surgical implantation being necessary is becoming less science fiction and more potential science fact, as far as I can tell.

Meh, in ten years we'll see where computer and sense-based technology has gotten and then I'll make a decision on what is and is not "good" virtual reality.

At any rate, I kind of agree with several comedians who have stated that the invention of the holodeck will spell the end of the human race. With any fantasy available to you, the odds of babies being made the old-fashioned way seems pretty slim.
 

Heronblade

New member
Apr 12, 2011
1,202
0
0
1 is easy, we've already got the tech to do crude tactile simulations. Its only a matter of time until it becomes good enough for at least relatively realistic simulations

2, at least to the degree of not running into walls, requires some kind of room setup that keeps you in one place, kind of like an omni directional treadmill. Star Trek holodecks manage this, but I don't recall anyone mentioning how. Perfecting this would however require the same as 3 or 4 below.

3 and 4 would both require some kind of neural intercept. This would most likely take the form of a reversible spinal tap of some kind that effectively paralyzes the body while replacing the feedback. The advantage here is that once you can do this, everything else is a cakewalk

davidmc1158 said:
At any rate, I kind of agree with several comedians who have stated that the invention of the holodeck will spell the end of the human race. With any fantasy available to you, the odds of babies being made the old-fashioned way seems pretty slim.
Yes and no

natural births certainly will die off. But people like myself would just take that as an opportunity to get a decent breeding program in. Improve the stock of the human race while maintaining a stable population.
 

BeoW0lfe

New member
Jan 31, 2013
35
0
0
ecoho said:
honestly i think Sword Art Online had what we as gamers would want,(within reason i mean no one wants to actually die if they die in game) a fully emmersive feels like your real body but isnt experiance.
cant agree more. having seen the entire show, i would still buy the game in a heartbeat. (even if i got stuck and died, it'd still be awesome.)
 

SadisticFire

New member
Oct 1, 2012
338
0
0
I think four has a chance of being impossible. Our minds just can't comprehend it. It took us two years as from birth to fully realize our sensory organs, then to walk. Where learning is super accelerated, but as a teenager? It'd be near impossible, and not to mention adult where they're more less hardwired then. I don't want to say it's impossible, cause yesterday's impossible is in our pockets now, and we use it everyday.

Still be neat, but I'd be afraid of getting shot legitimately.