Volition Dev Vs. Pre-Owned Games

[Naeras]

Extra Credits covered this pretty well, I feel [http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/project-ten-dollar]. It's not the customers that are screwing the publishers and developers over, it's GameStop. They're effectively punishing customers by pulling shit like this while mixing up their business model quite a bit probably would get them more money and more good-will from their customers.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

Up in arms for a little while?

No, more like firebombing Microsoft until the agree to do something about it.

Though honestly, this whole rumor is just stupid. There is no way in HELL that Microsoft would do that as it doesn't directly benefit them in a large way and would hurt tem FAR worse than any good things it did.

 

[uncanny474]

You know what's ironic about this thread? I bought and really enjoyed Saints Row 2. I was going to buy Saints Row The Third full-price. But now? F*ck Volition--I'm not paying more than five bucks for their crap, and I'm certainly not buying it on steam like I originally intended. I refuse to support a dev that will treat me like this. I have CONSUMER RIGHTS, and I'm not going to give them up without a fight.

I have never payed more than thirty bucks for a game. Every game I've gotten new, I've gotten as a gift. This was because I'm 19 years old--I can't afford $60 per game. I've supported the developer by buying games on Steam, especially during Steam sales. I don't have much cash, but I'll use it to support good games.

But when Volition acts like a spoiled brat, I have to show my outrage somehow. Congratulations, Volition. Let this post be evidence of how you lost a new game sale because you were angry about that consumer buying your last game used.

 

[ablac]

No other industry gets into hissy fits over used sales. What makes games so different. I dont want to buy a licence to a game i want to buy a game. If I pay for it then so long as i dont break the law what happens next should be up to me. But no apparently its still theirs. This is just DRM on the consoles and it is total bull. I dont buy many used games and i rarely trade in games worth keeping even if im not going to play them again. Thats just me and I cant speak for others but the concept of being licenced a game is whats most worrying.

 

[Samus Aaron]

Indeed, I too love saving money on video games, but when I don't have enough money to buy another game I want, tough luck for me. Besides, even if I don't get it immediately, by the time I am able to, odds are the price will have been lowered.

Without used games to compete against there's no reason to lower the price, after all you can just wait and save up for it...

By the way (and this is less relevant but still needs to be said) some people complain that most games cost $60 now. Games are extremely expensive to make, even moreso now that the technology is improving so fast. I can't say I enjoy paying more, but everything has its price, and if you want it, you'll have to be willing to pay for it.

That's a design decision, good games can and will appeal to people even without multi-millions invested in state of the art rendering tech. It's a risk the developer/publisher make when creating their game that they hope will sell the best. The developer has failed if the player is done with their $60 game in the span of a week and returns it.


I expect the prices of games to rise if there is no competition from used games when the consumer has no choice for better pricing.

That's not necessarily true. Prices fall naturally in order to attract more purchases from people who are less able to spend the high initial price. Some people are able to pay $60, and those people will buy the games at launch at full price. Some people won't be willing to do so, only buying at, say, $40. These companies realize this - they don't maintain their high prices simply out of stubbornness that their product deserves the full $60 if lowering the price is guaranteed to increase profits - and after ensuring that the initial costumers have bought the game, they will lower the price in order to draw in the less-interested consumers (one example of a company taking advantage of price drops is the Steam sales.

So the competition of used games has little effect except to perhaps speed up how fast the price drops. Without this competition, it's not like the price stops dropping; it does so regardless.

 

[XDravond]

O I laughed when I read "only 60$" o you lucky ones who get to play bad games and lose interest in gaming because every time you paid 60$ you've gotten disappointed. And then we have a decreasing fan base woho mission succeed crashing our company yey what we wanted...
OH wait they have THQ as publishers that explains it...

And if it were only 60$ the difference and tax makes games around here more in (translated in to dollars again) 75-80$... plus the special eds..

 

[Chefboski]

You know what's ironic about this thread? I bought and really enjoyed Saints Row 2. I was going to buy Saints Row The Third full-price. But now? F*ck Volition

I too loved Saints Row 2. Bought it used and played through it 3x. Based on my previous experience, I pre-ordered Saints Row 3. I felt Saints Row 3 was not a substantial improvement over Saints Row 2 and I paid 2x as much for it. After that, I swore off buying any game new.

The problem is, Volition made tons more money off the DLC heavy Saints Row 3 than they made for Saints Row 2. Since this was "successful" they'll keep doing it. Nevermind the fact that Saints Row 2 was what lead me to give them money for Saints Row 3, and the disappointment from Saints Row 3 is what will keep me from buying Saints Row 4 when it comes out.

 

[putowtin]

I appreciate that the developer doesn't see a penny from used game sales, and I strive to buy games new, even if that means waiting six months after the release date to pick a game up.

Here's my though on a console not playing used games,
*What if I could only get hold of the game used? my copies of KotOR I and II are used, cause no-one, and I mean no-one, had them in new.

Here's my though on Volition,
*Your last few games sucked, I paid £10 for Red Faction: Armageddon (New copy) and felt robbed!

 

[shiajun]

I don't remember a moment in history when overreacting to ghosts and boogies has ever worked out for good. The games industry is speeding rather hastily to a 2nd crash if they keep up this attitude. On PC gaming side you have that phantom of lost sales to piracy, and consoles keep trying to find ways to kill that phantom of lost sales in used games. The result has been the same either way: over restrictive measures that harm consumers but that will be entirely invisible to the people they're trying to stop. Pirate PC games do away with DRM measures and hacked consoles will rise to receive the underground used games world. It will happen.

Games have always been kind of an elite habit due to its cost. I have found myself being able to afford less games now and I've become quite selective of what I buy. This means when I'm not sure I only buy on sale (there's basically no used PC games market). I've been able to keep up the hobby this way. If consoles sought to kill the used games market and keep their 60 dollars price tag fixed it can only reflect on more cautious buyers and even less sales. It will become even a bigger elite situation and sucha niche market that it won't be able to uphold itself.

If I remember my Extra Credits correctly, a lot of money is being wasted in development games, not due to graphics (although that contributes), but piss poor resource management, design schedules and publisher interferance. Get that in order and maybe you won't see budgets keep skyrocketing. I see that as way more urgent to incrase profit than trying to bleed your consumers dry.

 

[Tarby]

So basically the upcoming consoles are PCs? Xbox Live and PSN to become like Steam/Origin, CD-Keys tied to an account etc etc.

See what happens to the price of games then eh? :/

Although a Steam like service might not be too bad, but you can guarantee online authentication will be required.

** haven't read whole thread so sorry if some of this already said.

 

[Madman123456]

Is no one in the Industry aware of the Phrase "not worth the Hassle"? Mafia 2 sits in my Steamfolder and i can't sell it. I put about 50 Hours in, nice Game but not the epic atmosspheric Sandbox i was hoping for. And for the "Freeride" Mode i'd have to pay extra.
No thank you. I'm halfway ok with this Business Practice. I paid for the Game and played it through and it was decent. I don't like that they cut Features from the first Game in Order to sell them as DLC for the second.

"Skyrim" isn't as big as "Oblivion" and "Saints Row 3" is rather short actually. Since everyone is cutting Corners i will be very wary when buying new Games. From some Companies i just wont buy Games because i do not like having to install Spyware or other malware on my Computer, thanks EA and Ubisoft.

I may buy Games from other Companies but i have reached the Point where i look for negatives instead of positives.

Has this Game a good Story intertwined with good Gameplay? That would land a Game on my buylist, but no more.

Now it looks like this: Will this game require the Installation of malware? Will this game have this or that Part that is stupid? Will this Game have Safeguards in Place that prohibits Modifications?

If any of the above is true, i will not buy the Game.
At the Pricepoint of Games and with the Fact some Companies would very much like to sell me a License to play the Game rather then a Copy of the Game i will not risk buying something that i wont like and then sitting on my Purchase, unable to sell it. Or maybe even unable to play it because the DRM crashes my Computer.

There will be more People that will only buy the greatest Releases in the Future. Something like "Skyrim"? While not as big as "Oblivion, it is still a pretty nice Game and it does support Modifications. I knew that in Advance, so Skyrim was mine.
With many other Sandbox Games i'm not sure. So maybe i'll play some more Skyrim instead.

I will not just buy a Game that i know little about when i can't resell it.

Used Games are helping the Companies to sell more new Games. I can buy a random Game now and then when i know that i can sell Games that i don't play anymore occasionally.
I will not buy random Games when i know that they will sit in my Shelf forever until i throw them in a Bin.

Fuck that. Next time i'm bored, i'll check out the "nexus" Sites for new Stuff for my Bethesda Games. or i'll go to gog.com to buy some old Games...

Trying to undermine the "used Product" Market has never been good for any Industry or any Product.
Would i drive a Mercedes Benz if i had not been able to buy it very very old and dirt cheap?
I don't think so. Now the Company can be happy that i drive their Logo around for free Advertisement instead of driving a new Car made by another Company for a lower Price.

 

[GonzoGamer]

Wow. Can you say "out of touch Asshat? I'm betting this idiot is a Romny supporter.

I actually made an account with the Escapist just to comment on this article.

Volition. Throw away that useless martyr complex. I have never thought of any of your games as being worth more than a weekend's worth of play borrowed from a friend long-since bored of your empty games. If Xbox DOES make a console that outlaws used games, say goodbye to YOUR sales.

I pay for games new all the time. I prefer to buy them used over new just because it feels more like "my" game and if it breaks, it was my fault. But I also love the used game market because years after a game comes out, if I want to play an older game, I can find it easily on the shelf of a nearby game store for cheap. It no longer stands up to current games, so I pay less money for it (LOGIC. DERP.) and yet it's not rare and hard to find, so I don't have to pay 90 dollars on ebay for a "Collector's copy" like when I wanted to get Marvel vs. Capcom 2 way before it was on XBLA and the only physical copies were like 70 dollars even though the game was like 10 years old.

But let me say this for sure. If a game system decided to outlaw used games and only allow me one console per game... FUCK. THAT. When I buy games, I run to a friend's house within the first few days to play it there. I WILL NOT go through a lengthy "subscription transfer" so my friend and I can goof off for a few rounds in Soul Calibur V. If Xbox decides to move in this way, as a long-standing Xbox fan (and die-hard console fanboy for a while, as I'm ashamed to say), I will officially call myself a Sony fan and by the PS4.

God, this asshole... boiled my blood so bad I had to make an account to rant so I wouldn't be in a bad mood all day. Geez. And Volition, this is a promise. If games become New-ONLY, I will learn everything I can about hacking/pirating and find a way to crack your games and give away hundreds of thousands of copies for free. Just to laugh and watch you squirm.

Welcome, this is one of those sites where you can badmouth the industry like this and even talk about piracy without being told to STFU...at least, not by the moderators.
I'm already pretty sure I'm not getting a console next generation. No more used games would definitely be the last straw for me as a renter. And no, I don't think his idea for a PS/MS rental service would float too well.
I buy new now but I bought used when I was poor (before gamestop gouged the used game market) and I don't think morons like this Volition Dev realize that if I hadn't bought a game of theirs used in the past, I wouldn't have even known about their games now.
And it's not too surprising that this is their stance. Have you SEEN Saints Row 3. It was horribly chopped into a million pieces so they could sell it bit by bit as dlc.
But all these schemes like day1 dlc and online pass don't seem to be doing them much good. Didn't THQ just liquidate a few offices? That's a sign that the bottom line isn't getting any healthier.

At the end of the day, do we really need to say anything about this?

Volition, we like you. Millions of people have played your games. You've already shipped 3.8 million copies of Saints 3, well past your initial goal of 3 mil by March. Used game sales aren't going to put you in debt anytime soon.

That's the part that really annoys me. It's not the struggling independent devs that have been all up in arms about used games. It's the douchebags in charge of huge publishers who champion things like online pass because it might make their ridiculously huge bonuses slightly less ridiculous.
It's ironic that the publishers of really popular games that sell a hell of a lot anyway are the ones who really like crap like online pass. Did I say ironic, I meant shitty.

 

[Aureliano]

Stay tuned for next week's installment when Durall explains where gamers who don't pirate and can't afford to pay $60 for every game they want to play get an extra ~$20-$50 to pay per game without severely increasing their workload!

Oh. You mean this is just a one shot article? Awkward...

 

[Alexander Vanderpoel]

the more BS these developers put in the way of playing a game the more we will fight, take a page out of valves book and get your head out from you know where, like they dont make enough from the DLC one every stupid thing they pump out

 

[rembrandtqeinstein]

Any console that came out with anti-used game technology will be a nonstarter. I suspect MS is playing the developers/publishers.

They talk to the publishers about locking out used games, show off a little tech demo then get then publishers to invest in developing/launching for the new console. Then just before the release date MS announces "we are listening to the concerns of our customers and are not including anti-used game technology". MS gets a massive PR bump and and awesome media buzz. The publishers will all be crying but what are they going to do? Not release their games and lose all their investment?

 

[Zom-B]

Gamers are a fairly entitled bunch, the majority will not give a shit if the game DESERVES to be bought new, they will be told by a gamestop employee when they are buying new that they can get the exact same thing for 5-10 dollars off, and be asked why they don't want to save money.

They will pick the used game almost every time, because it is the exact same product at a cheaper price point, with peer pressure working against them.

besides, all the people saying "This is BS, this sucks, I am so not going to buy if this happens!" Well, the game industry was really shown the last time people said how much they were going to boycott a game...it and ITS sequel sold better than any other media in history.

So, while people are hoppin up and down saying how horrible it is, the big companies have learned they can just snicker and brush those people aside because they will likely end up as customers anyway.

Some of this might be true for some gamers, but please don't presume to speak for us all.

Sure, given the choice between a new game at $60 and a used at $30, I will pay $30 most of the time, because then, of course, I have another $30 to buy a second game. Given the choice between a $60 new game and a $55 used copy, I will invariably either buy the new game or wait for the price drop.

Also, if a next gen console does have some anti-used game lockdown on it, I certainly won't buy it. And I know a lot of other people won't either. It's easy to say that the public will suck it up and keep buying or that the game publishers and hardware makers will continue pushing more and more restrictions all the while snickering away at the stupid public, but don't put it past the average human to rebel against something that really, really bothers them.

Online passes are one thing, taking away the option to even play a used game on your console is an entirely different animal.

 

[Skratt]

"Gamers who want to lend games to their friends could conceivably be accommodated by a system similar to Amazon's book lending policy, which transfers the license for a set period of time. "

And this comment completely undermines his ENTIRE FUCKING ARGUMENT. If the point is to STOP people from playing a game they didn't pay for so the devs can feed their families, a loaner system does the complete opposite.

The used game industry is just that - an industry, complete with employees and customers. What this dev is really saying is "I will make more money if the used game industry doesn't exist." which is not only complete conjecture, but likely a crock of shit. Your COMPANY will make more money, and how much more they would make is debatable.

All of these devs, companies and supporters of doing away with the used game industry are ignoring one fatal piece of evidence: Not everyone will pay $60 for a new game. This seemingly foreign paradigm is called the Law of Demand. If 1 million people buy a game used because they want to pay less, taking away the option to buy used will not make 1 million more people pay $60 for a new game.

The used games R bad, mm'kay approach to recouping costs are simply another way of ignoring the giant white elephant in the room. AAA Titles cost too much to produce so when a game tanks, everyone (devs, publishers, et al) blame everything but the fact that people don't want to pay full price for a sub-par game. It really sucks that you spent 4 years of your life coding sweat, blood and tears into something that didn't break sales records but life sucks. Deal.

BTW, with digital distribution, used sales are going away. It's best we all just prepare for it. All I'm saying is that the arguments I keep seeing for devs and publishers not making enough money are horseshit. Except maybe arguments about piracy costing companies money. If a person doesn't want to pay for a game then they just shouldn't fucking play it.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Every. Other. Industry. Has. A. Secondhand. Market. Period.

Do authors, publishers, and sellers of books go out attacking independently-owned secondhand book stores because "buying used hurts the author and publisher!" No. No they don't. At least not in any profound public way.

Does Hollywood attack secondhand DVD sellers? No. No they don't. At least not in any profound public way.

I understand that video games are expensive to make and tend to have bigger teams of employees compared to books, but the gap between production team for a movie and game isn't that different.

Other industries have adapted to the existence of a second-hand market, and video games should too. The secondhand market is a perefectly valid thing. If someone in the industry can't adapt to it, then they perish. That's the nature of the free market. Deal with it.

 

[Orange12345]

If that happens then welcome to the world (at least an area) of PC gaming, consolers.

My thoughts exactly when I first heard about this, if all consoles go through with this I am switching over to PC until consoles pull their head out of their ass.

Rant incoming

It isn't even fair to try and ban used games,
What if I buy a 60$ game and don't like it?
What if I buy a 60$ game and finish it in 2 days?
What if the game I want to play is 5+ years old and I can't find a new copy?
What if the game I want to play is 3+ years old and the multiplayer is barren?
What happens if my console breaks? Do I get my games back?
What happens if I decide to upgrade to one of the inevitable "newer" consoles (I.E. ps3 slim)?

Well according to console developers TOUGH SHIT

To be fair yes their is a problem with used games that needs to be addressed, but shafting your consumers to get back at some other A-holes is not the way to do it.

 

[Thoric485]

That's some pretty pathetic clickbait.

Works though.