Wait, so video games aren't art?
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Is that all?
My university Creative Writing seminar tutor told me that fantasy was a genre entirely given over to cliche, I shouldn't waste time reading comics because they had nothing to add to my writing, and that videogames are devoid of real content.
University level, and he's just dismissed an entire genre and two mediums.
I'm asking daily for a seminar change.
My university Creative Writing seminar tutor told me that fantasy was a genre entirely given over to cliche, I shouldn't waste time reading comics because they had nothing to add to my writing, and that videogames are devoid of real content.
University level, and he's just dismissed an entire genre and two mediums.
I'm asking daily for a seminar change.
not all games are art, but many are.
and those that aren't could be greatly improved if they were made with the idea of being art.
you wouldn't put a randon doodle a toddler made next to the Mona Lisa.
but really there is nothing i can say that hasn't already been said.
and those that aren't could be greatly improved if they were made with the idea of being art.
you wouldn't put a randon doodle a toddler made next to the Mona Lisa.
but really there is nothing i can say that hasn't already been said.
^ This, I was about to suggest. Brew up a list of, say, five really good, artistically beautiful, story driven games, and challenge her to play a good way through each (ie to the really pretty bit / wrenching twist) or at least watch someone do it / watch FOOTAGE of it at that part, and still uphold that statement.
Given that Maro has a cowboy bebop intro still as their avatar, it might also be worth asking... does she consider animation, graphic novels, etc still worthy "art"? Particularly as there are many with near-gallery standard drawn content (particularly the novels), and the storylines and characterisation can be as good as any written novel.
(Hell, I've just taken delivery of a novel that's *the book of the comic* for Girl Genius. That's gotta be some kind of first... it's going to be an interesting read)
Sure, most of this stuff - comics, 'toons, games - ARE pulp trash, but then so is a lot of literature, music, cinema ... and even more "traditional" paintings, theatre, concerts get judged mostly on personal preference than any kind of intrinsic artistic value.
(Though I do guess you'd have trouble finding someone who'd say, e.g., that Beethoven was a talentless hack... quality sometimes shines through regardless. Though I have just read a pretty scathing - not to mention epically late - review of the Nausicäa DVD in a colleague's science ficition magazine. True, it has flaws, but so has a lot of "art" and they seemed to just hating as much on the artist in general as the actual work...)
EDIT: Agh, ninja'd by my own length. I was of course talking about the post now several spaces up. Look for the pistols on a red background
Given that Maro has a cowboy bebop intro still as their avatar, it might also be worth asking... does she consider animation, graphic novels, etc still worthy "art"? Particularly as there are many with near-gallery standard drawn content (particularly the novels), and the storylines and characterisation can be as good as any written novel.
(Hell, I've just taken delivery of a novel that's *the book of the comic* for Girl Genius. That's gotta be some kind of first... it's going to be an interesting read)
Sure, most of this stuff - comics, 'toons, games - ARE pulp trash, but then so is a lot of literature, music, cinema ... and even more "traditional" paintings, theatre, concerts get judged mostly on personal preference than any kind of intrinsic artistic value.
(Though I do guess you'd have trouble finding someone who'd say, e.g., that Beethoven was a talentless hack... quality sometimes shines through regardless. Though I have just read a pretty scathing - not to mention epically late - review of the Nausicäa DVD in a colleague's science ficition magazine. True, it has flaws, but so has a lot of "art" and they seemed to just hating as much on the artist in general as the actual work...)
EDIT: Agh, ninja'd by my own length. I was of course talking about the post now several spaces up. Look for the pistols on a red background
not insane but ignorant, educate the stupid sir! The high point of a game in terms of communication (which is a shoddy definition of art but whatever) is it combines the story telling mediums of books and movies and makes it interactive, letting the people and environments and enemies tell the story but letting you control the perception of that story.Keenanr1234 said:
Not sure what country your in from but I can say from my recollections of High School in the US that it's a bad joke here too.thaluikhain said:
They are not art.
Now that I have your attention, let me explain. Video games very well may be art, but what does it matter? Regardless of how you classify them, they will remain the same. Is OOT any worse if we can't label it art? No, it'll play the exact same either way. Why gamers are so adamant about calling games art will always be beyond me. As a matter of fact, given what passes as art these days, I would rather them not be.
Now that I have your attention, let me explain. Video games very well may be art, but what does it matter? Regardless of how you classify them, they will remain the same. Is OOT any worse if we can't label it art? No, it'll play the exact same either way. Why gamers are so adamant about calling games art will always be beyond me. As a matter of fact, given what passes as art these days, I would rather them not be.
Lots of good articles have been written on this topic, and if you want to read something a little thick and philosophy-heavy, maybe check out this one I wrote for The Ontological Geek:
http://ontologicalgeek.blogspot.com/2010/08/big-question.html
I'd provide a TL/DR, but that's against the purpose of the blog. At any rate, to seay "video games aren't art," like has been said above, usually just means that the person in question is ignorant. No one who has played BioShock or Mass Effect or Fallout 3 or Planescape: Torment or any of a number of other games could possibly be so opposed to the notion.
Overall, though, it's probably not worth fussing about-- ignorant people tend to stay ignorant. If she's interested, then some Extra Credits, or my Ontological Geek post, or some other good Internet references might help your case, but she's probably just completely discounting the idea, and there's no use arguing with that kind of approach.
http://ontologicalgeek.blogspot.com/2010/08/big-question.html
I'd provide a TL/DR, but that's against the purpose of the blog. At any rate, to seay "video games aren't art," like has been said above, usually just means that the person in question is ignorant. No one who has played BioShock or Mass Effect or Fallout 3 or Planescape: Torment or any of a number of other games could possibly be so opposed to the notion.
Overall, though, it's probably not worth fussing about-- ignorant people tend to stay ignorant. If she's interested, then some Extra Credits, or my Ontological Geek post, or some other good Internet references might help your case, but she's probably just completely discounting the idea, and there's no use arguing with that kind of approach.
Video games will be an art form when game designers try to make them art instead of pumping out boring repetitive shite like call out duty.
To be art something has to have some kind of artistic merit or meaning, which is why most films are not considered art and why a school child drawing their pet cat in crayon isn't art either.
Of course some games could be considered art, but on the whole they are overshadowed by games meant solely to be be played by mindless child drones, not appreciated as art.
To be art something has to have some kind of artistic merit or meaning, which is why most films are not considered art and why a school child drawing their pet cat in crayon isn't art either.
Of course some games could be considered art, but on the whole they are overshadowed by games meant solely to be be played by mindless child drones, not appreciated as art.
If i were you......i wouldn't care about the opinion of a person who has never and will never touch a videogame, but still feels the need to judge it, without any proof or reason.
In my counrty, we call those people...... Dipshits
In my counrty, we call those people...... Dipshits
I wouldn't say she's insane as much as she's an ignorant luddite. Really you should take this to her superiors because the fact she immediately dismissed this and laughed in your face questions her objectivity as a teacher. It would make me question what else she doesn't consider art and if it's influencing what I, as a student, am being taught.
Also
Also
We're so concerned about calling games art for a few reason but BY FAR the most important is Art is protected. The government can't censor the crap out of games if they officially and legally recognized as an art form.Intronaut said:
Games wouldn't need to be censored if parents weren't such idiots and payed attention to age restrictions. Films are censored and age restricted just as much as games are. Saying "games shouldn't be censored" is not an argument for saying they are an art form.Sylveria said:
Yer teacher's an psycho *****! Video-games are the most artistic form of art there is! I say this because it takes ALL other mediums of art, puts them together and makes them interactive, tell yer teacher she can go fornicate with a rusty tire iron.Keenanr1234 said:
You guys need to remember how inexperienced the general public still are with video games.
A hell of a lot of the older generation haven't played video games, or haven't deeply, and don't understand them so they just view it as mindless.
For all we know she could be thinking of pac-man and tetris.
EDIT: Thinking about it, the 'worthless technology' thing is quite ignorant >.>
Also, yes, I do realise how prejudice this is and that she is in the wrong. I've just realised how the above sounds like i'm defending her, well I'm not.
If I was you I would have argued with her or at least tried to push my point a bit.
EDIT 2: Also, she's not wrong because she says video games aren't art, thats subjective, she's stupid because she laughs at the though, and the whole 'worthless technology' thing mentioned above.
A hell of a lot of the older generation haven't played video games, or haven't deeply, and don't understand them so they just view it as mindless.
For all we know she could be thinking of pac-man and tetris.
EDIT: Thinking about it, the 'worthless technology' thing is quite ignorant >.>
Also, yes, I do realise how prejudice this is and that she is in the wrong. I've just realised how the above sounds like i'm defending her, well I'm not.
If I was you I would have argued with her or at least tried to push my point a bit.
EDIT 2: Also, she's not wrong because she says video games aren't art, thats subjective, she's stupid because she laughs at the though, and the whole 'worthless technology' thing mentioned above.
Having an uneducated, prejudice opinion does not make you a Nazi, it makes you uninformed.dngamecat said:
Video games are art, but I think gamers need to widen their mind on what games are. Okami, Shadow of the Colossus and Ico are the only ones I hear people mention all the time. SotC and Ico are fantastic, but Okami can fuck right off. A nauseous art-style /=/ (good) art.
I guess she thinks Tetris and all that stuff, because that is hardly a form of art (yet still might reconsider, as art can be pretty much anything; it's the personal feeling that makes it count anyway). If you put in plots and whatnot, it's more like interactive media rather than games (or a blend) then.
My guess: validation. Especially given it's a post on a video game magazine's website/forum.Zeithri said:
We're going to favour our media as art. Not universally, but we are quite a biased group.
I never understood how someone can think that games are not art (if one has ever played them, that is). Games are a friggin work of art, tons of work by hundreds of artists, whether they are designers, writers or programmers.
That is a totally unfair statement. You may not consider that crayon drawing art but to that kid it is. Who's to say that kid didn't draw that stick figure cat with as much love and concern as a "real" piece of art? What sets that scribble apart from some of the masterpieces that are just a few abstract lines? Or that neo-expressionist sculpting that is just a bunch of junk (literally) welded together?Doive said:
Just because it's done poorly or not done in the fashion you dislike doesn't rob it of it's status. I don't find that hidden cryptic beauty that the Mona Lisa is said to hold but if I went to the curator and said it wasn't art he'd probably smack me in the face. Yeah for every Metal Gear there's a dozen Call of Duties that some hack studio whipped out in 3 months and dunked in coffee, but that doesn't mean they should be held to a lesser standard or drag the rest of the medium down. I can smear crap on a canvas and I'd still be totally justified in calling it art.