Wait, this is a Webcomic?

Recommended Videos

Krantos

New member
Jun 30, 2009
1,839
0
0
So, I've always had a sort of 'meh' attitude towards webcomics. I thought they were pretty much all like Penny Arcade and Ctrl + Alt + Del. Funny in their own way, but really nothing beyond that.

Then I started reading some by Gisele Lagace (I'd link it but some of the stuff is mildly NSFW). These were still focused on humor, but they had consistent characters and story arcs. Still not fantastic, but enough for me eventually work my way through all the series up to the present.

And then I found one of Lagace's first works which she primarily just did art for: Penny & Aggie. And then I proceeded to read the entire thing (all 1200+ strips of it). In one night.

Holy crunchberries. What starts out as a simple strip about two high school girls who hate each other turns into a series of stories confronting themes of (among others) Tolerance (racial/religious/sexual), social responsibility, psychological disorders, rape, attempted murder, suicide, and in the epilogue (yeah they actually have an epilogue) the transitory nature of life in general.

My favorite example is what happens with a particular character that is built up to be "the perfect guy". Imma slap this in a spoiler just in case you want to read the strip (and you should). It's not a huge spoiler, certainly not even in the top 10 surprises the strip has, so I still encourage you to read it.
A certain character, we'll just call him 'M', is built up for about half the series to be the Perfect guy. He's handsome, athletic, sensitive, confident, etc. Half the main characters at one point or another have a thing for him.

He even has the 'troubled' thing going for him as he has problems with his mother (this will be important later), but it doesn't seem to negatively impact his personality. He seems to be coping. So yeah, pretty much Edward, but with less sparkle.

M ends up in a relationship with a girl who may not be the best suited to him. She's manipulative, aggressive, and, as things turn out, borderline downright evil. He stays with her, though, because, as he claims, he has a lot of respect for where she came from, and he can see she's trying to be a better person. At least that's what she tells him.

He is able to stand up to her though, and does so on several occasions when she pressures him for sex (this will also be important later). You even get to see her internal struggle at times as she battles with her self, because she, as she herself puts it, doesn't deserve him.

Well, one of the main characters falls for him (near the start of the strip, actually) and so you think you know how it will end up (he realizes his girlfriend is bad and ditches her for the main character).

But you're wrong. Oh, so wrong.

When the main character (who is one of his close friends) finally confronts M about his girlfriend and suggests that she (his girlfriend) was behind a recent string of acts that are bordering on criminal, he doesn't believe it. He says he knows her too well.

...and then he says something odd. He says that she's provided him with a relationship more secure than anyone else has offered (THIS IS IMPORTANT).

The main character then, haltingly, admits to being completely head over heels for him, and has been for a while. This would be the point you think the story turns into your typical romance. You know how it goes: He pauses. Looks into her eyes. Then pulls her into a tender embrace.

That doesn't happen.

M gets as far as looking into her eyes, then proceeds to verbally rip her to shreds. He goes so far as to accuse her of trying to place a wedge between him and his girlfriend for her own purposes. He then says what is, and he knows it is, the most hurtful thing he can say to her. With that, he turns and walks away, leaving her crying on the sidewalk.

...

WHAT?!

WHAT JUST HAPPENED?!

This was supposed to be the EDWARD character. This is the one character that has been nice to EVERYONE. The one character that doesn't seem to have any flaws. Why would he do that??

The answer? Because the author is the most badass drama writer I've seen.

Suddenly, with this brazen display of cruelty, M's stone facade of being "Mr. Perfect" comes crashing down. At this point the reader has to stop and really think about everything M stood for. Everything he said. Everything that troubles him. And when they do they realize something.

M hasn't been "Mr. Perfect" naturally. He's been doing it to because of those troubles with his mother we talked about. To make a long story short, his mother is portrayed as one of those slutty girls who never wanted to grow up. She goes from relationship to relationship. Treats sex casually. And basically tries to constantly get her own way.

You know THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT M ACTS LIKE! Suddenly, M's entire character makes sense.

He doesn't refrain from sex because he thinks it's sacred or anything. He does it because his mother treats it so casually.

He isn't selfless because of some inner virtue. He does it to prove he's better than his mother.

He doesn't cling to a his relationship because he can see the good (that isn't actually there) in his partner. He does it because of how many relationships his mother has been through.

He's not really even mature. He just wants to be that way because his mother doesn't want to grow up.

He's constructed a facsimile of what he wants to be and what he wants his life to be like based entirely on rebelling against his mother. The problem is he's done it so well, and in such a socially acceptable way, that he believes it.

So when he lashes out at the main character, it isn't because of what she said or did. It's because facing the truth would mean ripping a hole in that facade. It would mean he's not as grown up as he likes to think. It would mean facing the fact that he's in a bad relationship. It would mean, in essence, facing the fact that his facade is just that. That the inner child is still there, just playing at being a grown up.

And he reacts just like a child would. Lashing out at the person trying to help him. The one person trying to show him the truth. The one person who might have accepted it.

This is one of the most heartbreaking scenes in the series (and there are more than a few of those), not only because the main character has had her heart ripped up by the one person she just wanted acceptance from, but also because of M.

It show us for the first time, just how tortured he is. It shows us how hard he's trying to do right, for all the wrong reasons, and just how much growing up he still has to do.

One of the few problems I have with the series is how it handles M after this. He pretty much just disappears. After finally discovering the truth about his girlfriend and apologizing (kind of) to the main character (who basically tells him, understandably, that she probably will never be able to forgive him completely), he just kind of disappears. He's pops up later in the strip in tangential ways, but we never actually get to see him deal with this stuff. It's merely said in the epilogue that he still dealing with his issues.

Personally, after pulling something like that, I'd like to see it taken to it's conclusion. I guess I can see why they didn't. He was only important to the story because of the main character's affections for him. After he destroyed those, he really served no purpose.

Still would have been nice to see the fallout as it were, though.

When I finally finished the series, I felt something I didn't expect when I started reading it.

I felt that bittersweet after glow that I get after reading a good book. Pleased to see it reach the conclusion, but sad to see the characters move on. Wanting to keep them but knowing all good things must end.

AND THIS IS A WEBCOMIC???

I wasn't expecting that.

It just goes to show that you can't judge a story by the medium it's presented in. A good story will enrich your life no matter how you experience it.

Here's a link to the stip if you want it: http://www.pennyandaggie.com/index.php?p=1
Just bear in mind the series doesn't start dealing with the really heavy stuff until about 200-300 strips in. It's still pretty good before that, though, and the early stuff helps put a lot of the later stuff into context.
 

Aidinthel

Occasional Gentleman
Apr 3, 2010
1,743
0
0
Krantos said:
It just goes to show that you can't judge a story by the medium it's presented in. A good story will enrich your life no matter how you experience it.
Very much this. The major problem with webcomics is that so many of them don't finish properly. On that note, here are some completed webcomics that I enjoyed:
Inverloch (site includes a link to the author's other completed comic)
Darken
Crimson Dark
Digger
 

dyre

New member
Mar 30, 2011
2,178
0
0
Yup, lots of webcomics go beyond a few laughs. I'd even call a few of them intelligent (as in, not just emotionally gripping, but intellectually stimulating). Gunnerkrigg Court and Dresden Codak come to mind.
 

Aidinthel

Occasional Gentleman
Apr 3, 2010
1,743
0
0
dyre said:
Gunnerkrigg Court and Dresden Codak come to mind.
Gunnerkrigg Court is great. (Didn't it win some big popularity contest recently?) All you need to know is that the first published volume has an endorsement from Neil Gaiman.

Dresden Codak would be awesome, if it updated more than about once a month. I don't understand it at all, so it must be really deep.
 

dyre

New member
Mar 30, 2011
2,178
0
0
Aidinthel said:
dyre said:
Gunnerkrigg Court and Dresden Codak come to mind.
Gunnerkrigg Court is great. (Didn't it win some big popularity contest recently?) All you need to know is that the first published volume has an endorsement from Neil Gaiman.

Dresden Codak would be awesome, if it updated more than about once a month. I don't understand it at all, so it must be really deep.
Yeah, Dresden Codak needs to be updated more, and it's almost overloaded with references. I get some of the references about philosophy and history, but the science stuff (or what I assume is science stuff) goes right over my head.

From what I understand of it, it's not necessarily super-deep, but understanding a lot of the cleverness requires that you have knowledge of the subjects involved.

I feel like as I get more educated, I can go back and reread the comics and understand more of it, which is a pretty cool feeling. Plus, it's got great artwork and cool storylines.
 

5ilver

New member
Aug 25, 2010
340
0
0
Aidinthel said:
5ilver said:
Reading now.
Careful, there's a rule against low-content posts. You probably need at least a few more words to avoid a warning.
Yeah, I learned that when I got a warning a couple months ago. Thankfully, making a new account takes <5min :)

As far as the comic:
Starts out slow but gets surprisingly good in about 50-60 pages. I'm very impressed. Thanks for sharing this, OP.
 

Aidinthel

Occasional Gentleman
Apr 3, 2010
1,743
0
0
5ilver said:
Reading now.
Careful, there's a rule against low-content posts. You probably need at least a few more words to avoid a warning.

OT: Should have mentioned this earlier, but I've added this comic to my reading list. I'm far too busy to start reading it now.
 

game-lover

New member
Dec 1, 2010
1,446
1
0
Oh, Penny and Aggie! I've read that!

Honestly, I didn't even connect the story until I saw the link then all the memories rushed back. Yeah, that was a very good end to an arc. And it led up to the beginning of one of the most major arcs of the series.

I did think it was rather unfortunate how "M" just vanished. But again, he was only a minor character. And not even in the way of the others. Like extra minor. Once the main girl in question decided she could never forgive him probably, she'd pretty much severed ties with him. And with no plausible reason for him to ever interact with the mains anymore... well, what more can be done? It was the same with the evil girlfriend too. None of those people were seen again.

But yeah, it was a very good story.

Are you reading the spinoff, Quiltbag? You should.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,855
15
43
game-lover said:
Oh, Penny and Aggie! I've read that!

.
I gave it a look...found it a little painful to read because of the whole "highschool girl" thing
 

Krantos

New member
Jun 30, 2009
1,839
0
0
Vault101 said:
[
I gave it a look...found it a little painful to read because of the whole "highschool girl" thing
That's fair enough. It does get easier to bear once you get to know the characters and the heavier stuff starts to come up. I think the only reason I made it through the early parts is I was bored and depressed and wanted something to take my mind off it.

It is a really good series if you can get through that part, but if not, no harm no foul.

Read Count of Monte Cristo before? If not, you should.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,855
15
43
I gotta say the Marauder sheilds comic is amazing, alomost sad (seriously Bioware take note)

http://koobismo.deviantart.com/gallery/
 

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
8,663
0
0
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Account jumping is a bannable offense.

As you are probably realizing, anything and everything can get you banned on this website ;)
Technically, it says ban jumping. But I am not sure on the mods' stance of account jumping. Technically, again, it's still bad.

OT: While not filled with amazing plotines, I quite enjoy xkcd [http://www.xkcd.com/] and Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal [http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php] (oh, to anyone who hasn't read it emotions were never so evocative: ][>:=~+). They are just one-strip jokes most of the time, so that works. I don't really enjoy waiting a week for updates on a story (I read webcomics once weekly not as they update. Feels slightly better.)

Aside from that, I like Goblins [http://www.goblinscomic.com/] - it started as a light hearted comedy about D&D goblins but it took a turn for a more serious matter somewhere down the line. At first it's there was a goblins village and a wacky ensemble, who complained about adventurers coming all the time looking for loot. And some time later, there was rape, torture, morality and a paladin who doesn't really get the Good part of Lawful Good and kills children.
 

Rastien

Pro Misinformationalist
Jun 22, 2011
1,221
0
0
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
5ilver said:
Aidinthel said:
5ilver said:
Reading now.
Careful, there's a rule against low-content posts. You probably need at least a few more words to avoid a warning.
Yeah, I learned that when I got a warning a couple months ago. Thankfully, making a new account takes <5min :)

As far as the comic:
Starts out slow but gets surprisingly good in about 50-60 pages. I'm very impressed. Thanks for sharing this, OP.
Account jumping is a bannable offense.

As you are probably realizing, anything and everything can get you banned on this website ;)
How does the banning work? is it by IP, as most home users get their WAN IP from a pool, so by rebooting your router you obtain a different IP from the avaible pool.

It's how i used to get around the 72-minute restricted mega video.

Just curious how banning works :x not wanting to get my chops busted here.
 

Raijha

New member
Aug 23, 2010
316
0
0
Questionable Content can be pretty good/have some interesting story.

ummmmmm, PvP has had a few good storylines.

I really liked Ozy and Millie, and while it didn't have a true full overarching story, it ended really well, and was decent all the way through.

Other than that, yea, Inverloch and The Phoenix Requiem were both good, can't wait for Finding Gossamyr to actually release.

And if your a huge D&D nerd, Order of the Stick over at Giant in the Playground Games is pretty funny with a long running story.
 

Rastien

Pro Misinformationalist
Jun 22, 2011
1,221
0
0
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Rastien said:
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
5ilver said:
Aidinthel said:
5ilver said:
Reading now.
Careful, there's a rule against low-content posts. You probably need at least a few more words to avoid a warning.
Yeah, I learned that when I got a warning a couple months ago. Thankfully, making a new account takes <5min :)

As far as the comic:
Starts out slow but gets surprisingly good in about 50-60 pages. I'm very impressed. Thanks for sharing this, OP.
Account jumping is a bannable offense.

As you are probably realizing, anything and everything can get you banned on this website ;)
How does the banning work? is it by IP, as most home users get their WAN IP from a pool, so by rebooting your router you obtain a different IP from the avaible pool.

It's how i used to get around the 72-minute restricted mega video.

Just curious how banning works :x not wanting to get my chops busted here.
As far as I know its standard bans for a while (meaning you can get around it by restarting your router/changing your IP).

They have some way of detecting someone banjumping though, even if that person changes their IP, and if they banjump enough they bust out the big guns and just ban the entire area, making it impossible to register another account.
Ahh i see this makes sense =) cheers for the info, only reason i asked is i find this kinda stuff really intresting. Not the banning persé more the implmentation and how to restrict access etc etc
 

AdmiralMemo

LoadingReadyRunner
Legacy
Dec 15, 2008
647
0
21
Aidinthel said:
Very much this. The major problem with webcomics is that so many of them don't finish properly.
Indeed... One of the best unfinished webcomics I enjoyed and miss is Elf Only Inn [http://www.elfonlyinn.net/]. It aborted its first storyline and went on hiatus for a few years. Then, it came back, different, and in most ways, better. After some time on the new storyline, though, the author had a big fight with his wife over the comic, and now it sits, incomplete.

At lease he gave his fans a bit of a conclusion, in text form [http://sortelli.livejournal.com/64605.html?thread=352349#t352349], on his LiveJournal.
 

Bazaalmon

New member
Apr 19, 2009
331
0
0
My two favorite webcomics have no continuing story at all!
XKCD and Cyanide and Happiness.
As far as ones with a real story going on...Order of the Stick, most definitely.
 

Queen Michael

has read 4,010 manga books
Jun 9, 2009
10,397
0
0
If you want a strip that starts off with joke-a-day but gets into being about developing as a person, then read Bruno. [http://www.baldwinpage.com/jan196.html] It's my favorite webcomic, and I've been reading webcomics for ten years now.
 

Lugbzurg

New member
Mar 4, 2012
916
0
0
I think this is the perfect time to bring about some of my favorite webcomics!

El Goonish Shive
http://egscomics.com/

Aoi House
http://www.gomanga.com/manga/aoi.php

Axe Cop
http://www.axecop.com