Wal-Mart Customers Trick Stores to Match a Fake $90 Price for PS4 - Update

J Tyran

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Slycne said:
I hope your friend paid in cash. Setting aside whatever sticking it to Wal-mart you feel should/shouldn't happen. I'm no lawyer, but pretty sure this is still fraud.
Its not fraud to take advantage of a companies sloppy special offers, no-one tricked Walmart into allowing any Amazon market place listing instead of just Amazons own listing.
 

Something Amyss

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Pyrian said:
"Heh, that's obviously fake. But frankly, WalMart, you don't pay me enough to care. NEXT!"
When I worked at Wal-Mart, I'd get shit from both the customer and management if I questioned something like this. I imagine it's not worth it to raise the issue most of the time.

Even discounting payment.
 

Something Amyss

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J Tyran said:
Slycne said:
I hope your friend paid in cash. Setting aside whatever sticking it to Wal-mart you feel should/shouldn't happen. I'm no lawyer, but pretty sure this is still fraud.
Its not fraud to take advantage of a companies sloppy special offers, no-one tricked Walmart into allowing any Amazon market place listing instead of just Amazons own listing.
It is if you use a fake listing and deceive the cashier, the latter of which the guy from the article did. These are intentional acts to defraud a company.

tippy2k2 said:
I'm kind of surprised they just take your word like that.
According to taahaa8 they didn't.
 

J Tyran

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Zachary Amaranth said:
J Tyran said:
Slycne said:
I hope your friend paid in cash. Setting aside whatever sticking it to Wal-mart you feel should/shouldn't happen. I'm no lawyer, but pretty sure this is still fraud.
Its not fraud to take advantage of a companies sloppy special offers, no-one tricked Walmart into allowing any Amazon market place listing instead of just Amazons own listing.
It is if you use a fake listing and deceive the cashier, the latter of which the guy from the article did. These are intentional acts to defraud a company.
Oh you have some proof that the people buying the Playstations deliberately placed fake listings or colluded with the people that placed the "fake" adverts then? Mind sharing it for the sake of discussion?
 

Something Amyss

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J Tyran said:
Oh you have some proof that the people buying the Playstations deliberately placed fake listings or colluded with the people that placed the "fake" adverts then? Mind sharing it for the sake of discussion?
You mean like the guy I just referenced mentioned in the original article? Whose name was in the post before you edited it down?

I mean, holy shit. If you're going to dispute that he said he intentionally deceived the clerk, that's one thing. But when I reference an article you've supposedly read and you say something to the tune of "where's your proof?" I....

I just don't....

Take it away, Nathan.

 

J Tyran

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Zachary Amaranth said:
J Tyran said:
Oh you have some proof that the people buying the Playstations deliberately placed fake listings or colluded with the people that placed the "fake" adverts then? Mind sharing it for the sake of discussion?
You mean like the guy I just referenced mentioned in the original article? Whose name was in the post before you edited it down?

I mean, holy shit. If you're going to dispute that he said he intentionally deceived the clerk, that's one thing. But when I reference an article you've supposedly read and you say something to the tune of "where's your proof?" I....

I just don't....

Take it away, Nathan.

Exactly, there is no proof anyone intentionally committed fraud so the other question is are you comfortable making such a serious accusation without any evidence or any real facts whatsoever?

The article never made the accusation, the CNN piece never made it either. The CNN piece said that the listings where fake but it never claimed that the people that bought the console either placed them or colluded with those that placed them, thats the only way this could be considered fraud.

So like I asked are you privy to some evidence we have not seen or are you happy to accuse people of a federal criminal offence without proof?
 

Hawk eye1466

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Damn I wish I'd thought of that I coulda snagged a ps4 and probably xbox one if I was feeling particularly masochistic.
 

Something Amyss

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J Tyran said:
Exactly, there is no proof anyone intentionally committed fraud so the other question is are you comfortable making such a serious accusation without any evidence or any real facts whatsoever?
Oh, if only the article had mentioned someone who did this, and I had mentioned his name specifically, and there was a link in the article where the person in question talked specifically about it.

I don't have any evidence except the guy's own words. I don't know why that would make me uncomfortable, but okay, sure.

So like I asked are you privy to some evidence we have not seen or are you happy to accuse people of a federal criminal offence without proof?
I don't know what's so hard about clicking a link and reading. In the time you've spent complaining that I don't have evidence and asking if I was privy to some evidence, you yourself could be privy to the same contents. I didn't even have to do any research off the Escapist. I clicked a link. And then I read what was at that link. I'm pretty sure if you were able to get to this article, you have all the tools necessary to see the same information.
 

ritchards

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Given how lack some of these places are around this (for so many reasons), Photoshop is an easy way to a discount...
 

J Tyran

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Zachary Amaranth said:
J Tyran said:
Exactly, there is no proof anyone intentionally committed fraud so the other question is are you comfortable making such a serious accusation without any evidence or any real facts whatsoever?
Oh, if only the article had mentioned someone who did this, and I had mentioned his name specifically, and there was a link in the article where the person in question talked specifically about it.

I don't have any evidence except the guy's own words. I don't know why that would make me uncomfortable, but okay, sure.

So like I asked are you privy to some evidence we have not seen or are you happy to accuse people of a federal criminal offence without proof?
I don't know what's so hard about clicking a link and reading. In the time you've spent complaining that I don't have evidence and asking if I was privy to some evidence, you yourself could be privy to the same contents. I didn't even have to do any research off the Escapist. I clicked a link. And then I read what was at that link. I'm pretty sure if you were able to get to this article, you have all the tools necessary to see the same information.
I read the article and watched the CNN piece, nothing to firmly suggest fraud on the part of the people buying the consoles at all. There was a person laughing that he took advantage of the situation but there is no way of knowing if he actually placed a fake listing.

But thank you, its nice to establish some boundaries on what posters on various forums consider acceptable cause for serious accusations. Accusing people of fraud or conspiracy to commit fraud with no firm suggestion either way is obviously where you sit.
 

Something Amyss

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J Tyran said:
I read the article and watched the CNN piece, nothing to firmly suggest fraud on the part of the people buying the consoles at all. There was a person laughing that he took advantage of the situation but there is no way of knowing if he actually placed a fake listing.
Thank God I never said that he did post the fraudulent listing. I mean, he did say that he showed a fraudulent listing, then when asked for verification, showed her the retail price listing's description rather than the fake one, which would meet most folks' standards for fraud. But I can't prove that claim I didn't make that he posted the listing. You got me. Boy is my face red.

But thank you, its nice to establish some boundaries on what posters on various forums consider acceptable cause for serious accusations. Accusing people of fraud or conspiracy to commit fraud with no firm suggestion either way is obviously where you sit.
If you have to lie to set my standards for me based upon claims I didn't make, I'd say you're establishing more about where you sit. Namely, that you don't give a crap about truth.

Also, it'd be nice if you answered the other guy's question:

Brendan Davis said:
J Tyran, would you mind sharing the statute for the federal criminal offence?
Oh, I'll do it myself:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/47

What taahaa8 claims to have done would qualify as far as I can see. Whether or not he posted the fraudulent listing.

This is apparently "no proof," though.
 

J Tyran

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Zachary Amaranth said:
J Tyran said:
I read the article and watched the CNN piece, nothing to firmly suggest fraud on the part of the people buying the consoles at all. There was a person laughing that he took advantage of the situation but there is no way of knowing if he actually placed a fake listing.
Thank God I never said that he did post the fraudulent listing. I mean, he did say that he showed a fraudulent listing, then when asked for verification, showed her the retail price listing's description rather than the fake one, which would meet most folks' standards for fraud. But I can't prove that claim I didn't make that he posted the listing. You got me. Boy is my face red.

But thank you, its nice to establish some boundaries on what posters on various forums consider acceptable cause for serious accusations. Accusing people of fraud or conspiracy to commit fraud with no firm suggestion either way is obviously where you sit.
If you have to lie to set my standards for me based upon claims I didn't make, I'd say you're establishing more about where you sit. Namely, that you don't give a crap about truth.

Also, it'd be nice if you answered the other guy's question:

Brendan Davis said:
J Tyran, would you mind sharing the statute for the federal criminal offence?
Oh, I'll do it myself:

http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/47

What taahaa8 claims to have done would qualify as far as I can see. Whether or not he posted the fraudulent listing.

This is apparently "no proof," though.
Still not fraud, he was taking advantage of a special offer nothing more. Walmart where the ones that offered to match any price from certain websites, go and check that link you dropped it contains lots of terms like "may reasonably be believed".

In other words the customer taking advantage of Walmarts poorly thought out policy has a legitimate defence that he didn't know the listings where fake, so without collusion or placing the listings themselves there is still no fraud.
 

Something Amyss

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ritchards said:
Given how lack some of these places are around this (for so many reasons), Photoshop is an easy way to a discount...
Taahaa8 actually claims that he was asked to prove the veracity of this and simply showed the real listing's description. The associate in this case at least seems to have put in a legitimate effort.
 

Something Amyss

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J Tyran said:
Still not fraud, he was taking advantage of a special offer nothing more.
By defrauding the store.

I seriously can't believe your defense is "nuh uh." You're honestly going to tell me that using information you know to be fake--to the point you have to switch documents--doesn't qualify as fraud? Seriously?

In other words the customer taking advantage of Walmarts poorly thought out policy has a legitimate defence that he didn't know the listings where fake
Except in this case, where the dude says he shifted listings to get away with it when challenged. Are you just pretending this isn't the case because it's inconvenient, or what? Because it's in the Twitter link you said you looked at.
 

J Tyran

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Zachary Amaranth said:
J Tyran said:
Still not fraud, he was taking advantage of a special offer nothing more.
By defrauding the store.

I seriously can't believe your defense is "nuh uh." You're honestly going to tell me that using information you know to be fake--to the point you have to switch documents--doesn't qualify as fraud? Seriously?

In other words the customer taking advantage of Walmarts poorly thought out policy has a legitimate defence that he didn't know the listings where fake
Except in this case, where the dude says he shifted listings to get away with it when challenged. Are you just pretending this isn't the case because it's inconvenient, or what? Because it's in the Twitter link you said you looked at.
"Shifted" listings or picked out the "cheapest" listing? Hard to prove which.
 

Something Amyss

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J Tyran said:
"Shifted" listings or picked out the "cheapest" listing? Hard to prove which.
Unless you read what he said. He showed one listing, then when challenged, showed a different one.

Can you please just admit you didn't read the tweets? I'd like to move on from this, since your whole argument revolves around ignoring a pretty crucial piece of information.
 

Something Amyss

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J Tyran said:
Accusing people of fraud or conspiracy to commit fraud with no firm suggestion either way is obviously where you sit.
Interesting side note, Wal-Mart has been calling it fraud, too.
 

J Tyran

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Zachary Amaranth said:
J Tyran said:
Accusing people of fraud or conspiracy to commit fraud with no firm suggestion either way is obviously where you sit.
Interesting side note, Wal-Mart has been calling it fraud, too.
Well obviously the butt hurt and embarrased big company is calling it fraud, unless someone is convicted of the crime Walmart calling it fraud is as meaningless as you calling it fraud. So far no-one has even reported even a complaint to the police, let alone even a single arrest or charges.

That says more about the allegations of fraud than anything else.
 

Callate

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I'm trying to find some shred of outrage about Wal-Mart being taken advantage of in this way, but I just can't. Stupid decision made from on high, passed on for implementation to underpaid, unempowered employees who are frequently treated as expendable; predictable result.

In another week or so, we'll get to hear about another round of injuries and possibly deaths at Wal-Mart Black Friday sales, just so we can have further reminder of just how messed up this chain and its policies are.

Wal-Mart depresses the hell out of me.