Wargaming Goes on the Offensive about Chinese World of Tanks Knockoff

[WarpZone]

See, this is my problem with the "outrage" about this. I like clones. I grew up in the 80s, when 8-bit side-scrollers were a dime a dozen. I like first-person shooters. I like puzzle games. I like Mario Clones, Diablo Clones, and Halo clones.

So when there's a Day-Z knockoff or a World of Tanks knockoff, it's very important for me to know, are they just copying a game that wasn't that original in the first place? Or are they actually stealing content?

If there was a real tank in history called the Panzer, making up another tank and calling it the Panzer II isn't that original of an idea in the first place, you know?

If they didn't steal models, didn't steal textures, didn't steal code, I don't see it as a problem. But this seems to be the mindset of the modern gamer. Every single fucking game has to innovate, whether the old game had anything wrong with it or not.

Nobody's allowed to make a game like Amnesia, except for Frictional. If they do, they get laughed out of the room for "ripping off" the incredibly original idea of being in a dark castle. Even if it's been years since Amnesia came out and everyone who's into Amnesia has already played it to death. I'm not talking about a violation of copyright or anything like that. I'm talking about a completely original survival horror game that happens to take place in a dark castle and maybe do the blurry vision thing. Not. Allowed. To. Happen. According to gamers. When did that become the norm? No WONDER developers are constantly innovating for innovation's sake. Somewhere along the line it became taboo to just make a new game that's like a cool old game.

I don't understand why that is, and I think we're all poorer for it. Especially since so many AAA games are so short these days.

 

[JaceArveduin]

If they didn't steal models, didn't steal textures, didn't steal code, I don't see it as a problem. But this seems to be the mindset of the modern gamer. Every single fucking game has to innovate, whether the old game had anything wrong with it or not.

That's the thing: They did steal textures and models.

Lmao, even the new garage slots cost the exact cost. But yeah, it almost looks exactly the same, with a few tweaks here and there.

 

[WarpZone]

Okay awesome. Can you show a side-by-side comparison? Wireframes or even texture captures from the video card would be better, but I don't want anybody breaking copyright laws in order to prove that somebody else did. So like. I don't know. Figure out a way to compare them pixel-per-pixel without actually exporting the content.

You're the first person to claim that they ARE exact, not "looks" or "seems" exact. Unless it happened further up and I missed it. Pretty sure you're the first.

 

[KeyMaster45]

Lax control gets you sites like Equestria daily and a league of legends resturant.

You're going to have to explain the Equestria daily one because from what I understand it's just a fansite and is operating well within fair use.

 

[savageoblivi0n]

Okay awesome. Can you show a side-by-side comparison? Wireframes or even texture captures from the video card would be better, but I don't want anybody breaking copyright laws in order to prove that somebody else did. So like. I don't know. Figure out a way to compare them pixel-per-pixel without actually exporting the content.

You're the first person to claim that they ARE exact, not "looks" or "seems" exact. Unless it happened further up and I missed it. Pretty sure you're the first.

google man awaayyyyyy!

Spoiler: side-by-side

Spoiler: world of tanks standalone

Spoiler: Project Tanks standalone

looking at those yeah I'd say they look pretty much exact, minus some different placement of buttons, that coupled with the copying of made up tank names seems...pretty convincing to me

 

[JaceArveduin]

Nope, there are a few people above me that did.

I watched Jingle's video, and after 3K or so games of WoT, I have to agree with him. I'll fully admit that quite a few of the things are just barely changed, and that there are a few things that are new, but a good chunk of it looks like Wot. Hell, even the tech trees are the same as the old ones, along with the lines being quite familiar.

 

[WarpZone]

Here, I made one.



Right click to view it full-size so you can hunt for even a single pixel of difference!

[/SARCASM] It's clearly a knockoff but come on, there's tons of differences. ALL of the details are different. I'm a little iffy on those fans (would need to see them up close to count verticies on the curved parts) but every single texture and piece of architecture is slightly different. It's clear they built a whole new garage that was just a blatant rip-off of the old garage.

Can somebody who has access to both games take some close-up screenshots of the same tank? The cylinders might be the same, but I'll bet there are some subtle differences in the chassis. That's how you can tell if it's the same model or not. Again, wireframes are great if you can somehow grab them from the running games. (Don't ask me how.)

 

[savageoblivi0n]

Here, I made one.

*snip*

Right click to view it full-size so you can hunt for even a single pixel of difference!

Honestly my problem with your original post is the fact that no one here is saying the other company needs to innovate. However the similarities are close enough to the eyes of the people with the most knowledge to have it investigated, they have to file a lawsuit to do that, and the defending game was pulled while the investigation goes more in depth. That's all that happened here, and for someone to get basic knowledge they could do 5 minutes of research online in the various games forums to build a beginning opinion, which more than a few people have done.

 

[JaceArveduin]

Here, I made one.

*snip*

Right click to view it full-size so you can hunt for even a single pixel of difference!

Honestly my problem with your original post is the fact that no one here is saying the other company needs to innovate. However the similarities are close enough to the eyes of the people with the most knowledge to have it investigated, they have to file a lawsuit to do that, and the defending game was pulled while the investigation goes more in depth. That's all that happened here, and for someone to get basic knowledge they could do 5 minutes of research online in the various games forums to build a beginning opinion, which more than a few people have done.

Bout covers it. There's also the fact that it doesn't play similar, it plays exactly the same, minus a few of the physics features that took WG awhile to get in. I'm sure if you went up to someone who's never played either of these games and showed them some ingame footage, they'd think it was the same game.

 

[Thyunda]

Here, I made one.



Right click to view it full-size so you can hunt for even a single pixel of difference!

[/SARCASM] It's clearly a knockoff but come on, there's tons of differences. ALL of the details are different. I'm a little iffy on those fans (would need to see them up close to count verticies on the curved parts) but every single texture and piece of architecture is slightly different. It's clear they built a whole new garage that was just a blatant rip-off of the old garage.

Can somebody who has access to both games take some close-up screenshots of the same tank? The cylinders might be the same, but I'll bet there are some subtle differences in the chassis. That's how you can tell if it's the same model or not. Again, wireframes are great if you can somehow grab them from the running games. (Don't ask me how.)

The Project Tanks screenshot garage looks like the default garage in WoT. The one in the WoT screenshot must be a premium garage, because mine does not look that awesome.

 

[WarpZone]

I zoomed in in photoshop and I'm pretty sure the top image has 12-sided cylinders on the fan gratings and the bottom one has 20-sided cylinders. If that's accurate, they are two different meshes. Railings are too close to call.

I haven't played either one, but the guy in the video seemed surprised at some element of how the tank handled, I think. He definitely said the damage model is different. Having worked with Unity3D, I think it's *extremely* unlikely that the physics engine models things the same way, unless World of Tanks *also* used Unity3D, which AFAIK they rolled their own engine.

I know nobody here said they need to innovate. I was referring to the attitude that pervades the consumer side of the games market. Nobody said it because it's assumed by this point. If you didn't assume that "anyone who makes a new tank game has to do something different than the old tank game," nobody would have posted here in the first place.

In any other market, if you sell a widget, and I sell a cheaper widget that performs the same basic function but is slightly different, you don't file a frivolous lawsuit, you fucking compete. Why is that not the case here?

If the same tank is the same in both games, please show me the two tanks side by side. I haven't seen anything yet that convinces me they lifted art assets. You can't copyright/patent an idea. Only specific implementations of that idea.

If you own World of Tanks and I'm wrong, just take a screenshot that proves me wrong and show it to me.

 

[WarpZone]

The Project Tanks screenshot garage looks like the default garage in WoT. The one in the WoT screenshot must be a premium garage, because mine does not look that awesome.

Oh okay. What about the garage shown in savageoblivi0n's screenshot? Is that the default garage? If not, could you take a screenshot of the default garage and post it here?

Edit: Is this it?
http://benchmarkreviews.com/images/reviews/games/WoT/World-of-Tanks_Ferdinand_Garage_2D.jpg

 

[The Great JT]

And suddenly I remember Final Combat, the Chinese knock-off of Team Fortress 2 that cut core class abilities (rocket jumping from their version of the Soldier). Someone needs to bring the hammer down on these plagiarists.

 

[Madkipz]

Lax control gets you sites like Equestria daily and a league of legends resturant.

You're going to have to explain the Equestria daily one because from what I understand it's just a fansite and is operating well within fair use.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_use#Fair_use_on_the_Internet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_art

The legal status of derivative fan made art in America may be tricky due to the vagaries of the United States Copyright Act. Generally, the right to reproduce and display pieces of artwork is controlled by the original author or artist under 17 U.S.C. § 106.

However, fan art using settings and characters from a previously created work could be considered a derivative work, which would place control of the copyright with the owner of that original work. Display and distribution of fan art that would be considered a derivative work would be unlawful.

However, American copyright law allows for the production, display and distribution of derivative works if they fall under a fair use exemption, 17 U.S.C. § 107.

Basically HASBRO is letting EQD exist, but they still took down Fighting is magic even if technically both sites were infringing on the trademarks with equal measure. Basically you will never have a MLP resturant because HASBRO cannot stand having people enjoy the art and profiting off it. <,<

 

[Madkipz]

*snip*

Copyright is bullshit and china doesn't care for the american versions of it because they want to clone it. This is news?

Lax control gets you sites like Equestria daily and a league of legends resturant. The opposite gets your brand no unorthodox marketing and shits all over the economy while letting stupid companies get monopolies on how they want to use their art assets so that their can cultivate their market niche instead of having the brand name gain mainstream traction by virtue of fair use.

So, what you're saying, is if you made a game, for a specific market demographic, and someone pretty much copy pasted your game, stealing a chunk of your market share, but "in a browser!" stealing from you by using your hard work to make money for themselves, whilst taking away prospective customers from you, losing you money, that's totally cool.

Equestria daily, isn't taking away "customers" from hasbro, and the league of legends restaurant isn't lowering leag of legends' playerbase, so your comparison is more of an apples and oranges deal, it doesn't work, sorry.

P.S. Capchas telling me to enter specific words about toyota's new camry is pissing me off, it's not going to brainwash me into buying it, in fact, it's doing the same thing to me that the pontiac adds in anarchy online were doing, making me feel almost alergic to their brand name, who the hell comes up with this kind of marketing, they should be fired.

You are wrong. It is the same when it comes to the law regarding trademark IP.

 

[WarpZone]

Yeah I know there's videos. It just seemed like there were a lot of World of Tanks players in this thread, so I figured maybe they could settle it one way or the other with the right screenshots. Screenshots would be more conclusive because they're higher resolution, the person taking the screenshot could line up the camera and everything to be as similar as possible to the Chineese game, etc. He says the names and roles of the vehicles are the same, but without having played it, I don't know whether he means they're literally stolen or just really, really similar.

What triggered me in the first place was, everyone talking about it seemed to be using language choices that implied it was stolen but literally meant that it was just similar. So I'm just trying to get that ambiguity resolved.

 

[Colt47]

It would be a good day in gaming if the two developers could come to terms and work together instead of against each other. It's obvious that both sides want to make money and fighting each other in court is a tiring exercise regardless of which side someone is on in the case. Even if the other side did steal models from World of Tanks, they built new maps and designed the game to run in a browser, meaning they do have talent over there.

 

[RicoADF]

People keep saying "rip-off," but I don't know what that actually means in this context. I don't play World of Tanks, so I have no basis for comparison. Are they using models and textures from the first game, or new names or terms that Wargaming made up? Can anybody post side-by-side screenshots of the same tank or menu in both games?

Basically, I'd appreciate it if someone who knows World of Tanks intimately could demonstrate that this is actual lifted art assets, not just another "Fighter's History" situation. Thanks.

It sounds like they literally stole the models and other parts of the game and recreated it in another engine for using in FB.

 

[SteewpidZombie]

WOW CHINREESE TAAANK GAYM EZ ROT A REEP-OF UV WORL OUV TAANKS!

Now all jokes aside (Especially the very sterotyped and poorly worded Engrish jokes), I must say that this is just another prime example of companies trying to make a profit off of other successful products without putting in any real effort. Like SERIOUSLY? They actually have the BALLS to try and pretend that their product is original? It'd be like if I went and plastered a cheap nametag over Mass Effect 3 and then saying that it was my own creation by "Jim-bob basement productions" or some other crap.

After examining both games (I've played World of Tanks before), I can say 100% that the Project Tanks game is simply World of Tanks with some altercations. So overall it's just someone trying to sell somebody else's product with a new label.