Warhammer 40K Deserves Better!

[Serum211]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGXsOorkgpg

If you want to understand everything I'm going to say, you need to watch the video. It's a TB video, so I understand if not everyone wants to watch it, but it plays a part in this.

Right, so after watching this video, I was really angry. At first I thought that it was just because the game on display looked bad, and I dislike when a good franchise is wasted on a bad game. But no, my anger is far more deep rooted then that. I'm seriously pissed off that Warhammer 40K is being mistreated as it is, because I have become a big fan of the franchise and I know how good video games in that universe could be. If they where handled correctly, which they are currently not.

Just think about everything we could do with a licence as great as Warhammer 40K: 4x strategy, grand strategy, RPGs, FPS. Hell, someone on TBs reddit thread suggested this: a city builder game as a Governor of a new reconquered planet. But instead, we get shovel ware. Why? Do they not realise the massive amounts of potential of what they could do with the IP? Are they just thick as bricks? I'm seriously questioning their intelligence, because they are wasting more potential then any man with common sense should do.

Dawn of war was a prof that Warhammer 40K can be good, Space Marine helped reinforce that, but now they seem to go out of their way to ruin all that was good with those games, and that makes me sad. I want to be able to enjoy 40K games, but they refuse to make them. Stop wasting your time with these crappy wastes of potential, and make a proper 40K strategy game where I can throw away the lives of millions of Imperial guards to get control of one planet.

 

[omega 616]

I'm not going to watch the video, as I think TB has an inflated sense of self at the moment.

I do think that the Warhammer franchise is so fucking ripe for games though, just about any game could be made from that universe ... I think a game like endless space would be amazing!

RTS obviously works, a TPS obviously works (could have been better), a hack and slash (god of war style) could work play as a banshee/tyranid/ork, could make a good stealth game (TLOU style, play as a sniper who has to make his way back through enemy lines).

I don't see how publishers are so blind to how successful they could make some of the IP's they own! Battlefront 3 has been begged for, for years and only now are they making it? The whole IP thing is a mess anyway but at least make decent games out the stuff you own!

 

[Fsyco]

I'm kinda sad there haven't been more action titles in the 40k universe. Strategy is fun and all, but the setting is full of chainsaw swords and explodey-bullets and the like. I never played actual tabletop 40k, but I've read many of the books and played almost all the Relic Games.

Hasn't Games Workshop been in a slump lately? I remember reading elsewhere that GW isn't doing so well financially. That and Relic, the guys who used to have the 40k license, were with THQ and are now with Sega, so that might have rustled some legal jimmies. Maybe they're trying to just get as much product out to market so that people think 40k is still relevant.

That, and shovelware is cheap and easy to mass produce. That hypothetical game where you play an Imperial Governer/Lord-Militant/whathaveyou (It's been a while since I've brushed up on my Imperial Military Structure) would cost time and money and be a bit niche. From GW's perspective, the investment isn't worth the return. That, and every time you make a game, there's some extremely vocal group of people complaining about how they dun goof'd the lore and everything is ruined for everybody and how it's somehow Matt Ward's fault.

ALTHOUGH. Someone with enough time and effort could easily make 40k mods for pre-existing games. Crusader Kings 2 with Imperial Nobles, Planetary Annihilation with Ork WAAAAAGHs, and obviously Starcraft mods.

 

[Fsyco]

Ooooooh. I think I just pieced it together.

They're trying to hit the mobile gaming market because they're in the red and want to get in on this hip, new thing the kids are into so that they can keep themselves afloat. All the recent shovelware with the GW's licenses seems to have a mobile focus (Storm of Vengeance, the upcoming Space Wolf, Chainsaw Warrior). Except nobody has realized that trying to make a good mobile game out of the 40k universe is like trying to write the entire plot of the Metal Gear franchise on a post-it note.

 

[VladG]

I agree that the WH:40K IP has MASSIVE video game potential.

I'm sure a LOT of studios would love to get their hands on the IP, since it's basically video game heaven: Grimdark, over-the-top, hyper-violent, more wish-fulfillment than 20 viagra commercials mushed together, rich lore with plenty of room to create and, as someone already mentioned, potential for pretty much any game genre out there.

But I think the issue lies with Games Workshop more so than video game studios. From what I've heard, they are quite stupid when it comes to releasing rights, and pretty much the only decent publisher to ever work with them was THQ (and I didn't particularly like DoW II nor Space Marine - I found both fairly bland, repetitive and forgettable)

 

[Megalodon]

They're trying to hit the mobile gaming market because they're in the red and want to get in on this hip, new thing the kids are into so that they can keep themselves afloat.

Except that the last set of financials had them making a reduced profit, not a loss. While they of course want to make more money, it appears that they're in the black for the time being.

But I think the issue lies with Games Workshop more so than video game studios. From what I've heard, they are quite stupid when it comes to releasing rights, and pretty much the only decent publisher to ever work with them was THQ

It's probably a bit of both. Game publishers are overall big companies, GW is a big fish in a small pond (Tabletop Wargaming). GW is understandably paranoid about holding on to its IPs, as they're basically the only commodity it has that's worth a damn. In any real relationship, GW would be the junior partner, and thus have limits on the control they had over the contents of the game. You could then end up with either GW losing exclusive rights to its IPs (at least that's my understanding, not a copyright lawyer), or a repeat of the story of the origin of Warcraft and Starcraft, GW doesn't like the direction of the game for whatever reason, and the studio strips out GWs IPs and releases it anyway, with GW not making anything (for the record, that's just the rumour I've heard about GW/Blizzard). Plus of course, we don't know that they haven't tried to get a decent studio/publisher in on their IP, without being ablew to come to an agreement both parties can accept, as they wouldn't broadcast that fact (expecially these days as the company's too damn secretive for its own good).

games workshop has become the epitome of shovelware.

How? GW doesn't make video games, and with a few notable exceptions (finecast, stormraven), there's nothing wrong with the quality of their products, just the price.

 

[Therumancer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGXsOorkgpg

If you want to understand everything I'm going to say, you need to watch the video. It's a TB video, so I understand if not everyone wants to watch it, but it plays a part in this.

Right, so after watching this video, I was really angry. At first I thought that it was just because the game on display looked bad, and I dislike when a good franchise is wasted on a bad game. But no, my anger is far more deep rooted then that. I'm seriously pissed off that Warhammer 40K is being mistreated as it is, because I have become a big fan of the franchise and I know how good video games in that universe could be. If they where handled correctly, which they are currently not.

Just think about everything we could do with a licence as great as Warhammer 40K: 4x strategy, grand strategy, RPGs, FPS. Hell, someone on TBs reddit thread suggested this: a city builder game as a Governor of a new reconquered planet. But instead, we get shovel ware. Why? Do they not realise the massive amounts of potential of what they could do with the IP? Are they just thick as bricks? I'm seriously questioning their intelligence, because they are wasting more potential then any man with common sense should do.

Dawn of war was a prof that Warhammer 40K can be good, Space Marine helped reinforce that, but now they seem to go out of their way to ruin all that was good with those games, and that makes me sad. I want to be able to enjoy 40K games, but they refuse to make them. Stop wasting your time with these crappy wastes of potential, and make a proper 40K strategy game where I can throw away the lives of millions of Imperial guards to get control of one planet.

The problem seems to be that Games Workshop does not take much except the core tabletop war games very seriously. They have a record of generally choosing terrible game developers, and not supporting or using their RPG licenses very well. Honestly it's amazing their "Black Library" novel line has done as well as it has, especially given that they seem to be avoiding Kindle.

To put things into perspective it's almost like the infamous "Curse Of The Bambino" way back at the dawn of history this game company called Blizzard came to them to make a "Warhammer" computer game. GW said "nah, but we won't stop you if you want to use stuff very similar to ours" and Warcraft was born (and if you ever wondered why the art and some of the concepts seemed so similar, that's why). Blizzard wound up taking their spin off franchises into epic money making territory and made millions upon millions of fans globally. In the mean time GW has since only managed to produce a couple of decent games, and honestly as much as I thought the curse might have been lifted with "Dawn Of War" that is sadly not the case.

Truthfully for computer games I've always felt their best path would be to use their RPG mechanics and deep lore to create games like "Knights Of The Old Republic" or "Dragon Age" based on things like the Inquisitor, Rogue Trader licenses, or Necromunda licenses. They have managed to do pretty much one shooter which "didn't suck", and a couple
of RTS games which followed the leader after Blizzard and did pretty well. What makes Warhammer stand out compared to the crowd is it's deep lore, and really it's amazing they did as well there as they did, because frankly you didn't get much of a sense of the world behind things from either title except for a few references and some cheezy voice acting which mostly made sense if you knew the material to begin with. For all intents and purposes it's just another dude in fancy armor, or another set of RTS armies, blowing the crap out of everything.

That's just my opinion though, of course then again I consider the peak of anything they ever did with their world to be "The Eisenhorn Trilogy" which did more to sell me on it than anything else, and of course their PnP RPGs which seem to be under supported with not many people playing (probably due to the price they want, which like most GW products is much higher than similar products from other companies).

 

[Megalodon]

The problem seems to be that Games Workshop does not take much except the core tabletop war games very seriously. They have a record of generally choosing terrible game developers, and not supporting or using their RPG licenses very well. Honestly it's amazing their "Black Library" novel line has done as well as it has, especially given that they seem to be avoiding Kindle.

Really? Their ebook stuff doesn't work on Kindle? That's a massive pain in the arse.

That's just my opinion though, of course then again I consider the peak of anything they ever did with their world to be "The Eisenhorn Trilogy" which did more to sell me on it than anything else, and of course their PnP RPGs which seem to be under supported with not many people playing (probably due to the price they want, which like most GW products is much higher than similar products from other companies).

Not really, prices (especially RRP) on amazon are pretty comparable across systems, looking at £30-40 per book. Also, I don't know if GW have any control over the RPG pricing, as that's entirely run by FFG these days, so any high prices are on them, not GW.

Weird/funny thing with that Storm of Vengeance crap, even GW hasn't plugged it. Even the recent Chainsaw Warrior got a mention on their daily blog, but this, nothing. Did GW realise how badly this had been fucked up?

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

GW can't afford to make a game that will outsell their models. If people can buy a game on steam or console for £30-£40 that provides a better experience than the tabletop then nobody will buy three space marine centurions for £42.50.

At the end of the day they are a model company first and foremost. They don't even care that much for the rules they write as evidenced in the tournament scene which has generated into the "2++ star" lists that take advantage of overlapping rules.

I wouldn't mind a decent game that is faithful to the fluff and gives people who are interested in the fluff a chance to view the world without paying dumb amounts for plastic models but I doubt anything groundbreaking will come out. As a 40k player with around as a grand sunk into 2 40k armies, a warhammer fantasy army and a planned £900 on a pre-heresy army I can say that if their was an exceptional 40k game then I would be not spending this money on plastic crack.

Eternal crusade seems promising enough, even if they are trying to get PC gamers to play a shooter with a gamepad.

 

[Ubiquitous Duck]

The whole thing just reeks of desperation.

Seems like they are applying a Lucas Arts-esque methodology of 'how to grind a franchise into the ground'. This is only the first step down the road and I assume that other trash games are to follow.

It is going to be connected with the fact that Games Workshop is not doing very well financially and hasn't been for years.

I was a fan, but I can't say I feel wholly unhappy at this fact. I became detached from collecting the models and when I looked into getting back into it, more casually, it was far too much of an expense for me to want to start buying. They seem to of ballooned their pricing and made it such an unattractive prospect for new players, once you consider how much money you need to spend to have even a decent sized army - it is just too expensive.

Time to begin the descent down the slippery slope into the abyss. Hold on tight to your memories of past Games Workshop games you loved, because the manure truck is parked right outside.

Perhaps *this* is the dawn of war (hahahahahahahaha! so f***ing funny!!!!...*cough*).

 

[Zipa]

They need to give the license to another company who are reliable like Relic, not all these devs with questionable histories to say the least. The potential with a 40K license is huge and not just limited to RTS, Space Marine proved that. There is just so much there in the IP, if GW wanted to they could have an awesome range of video games.

 

[Zipa]

GW can't afford to make a game that will outsell their models. If people can buy a game on steam or console for £30-£40 that provides a better experience than the tabletop then nobody will buy three space marine centurions for £42.50.

At the end of the day they are a model company first and foremost. They don't even care that much for the rules they write as evidenced in the tournament scene which has generated into the "2++ star" lists that take advantage of overlapping rules.

I wouldn't mind a decent game that is faithful to the fluff and gives people who are interested in the fluff a chance to view the world without paying dumb amounts for plastic models but I doubt anything groundbreaking will come out. As a 40k player with around as a grand sunk into 2 40k armies, a warhammer fantasy army and a planned £900 on a pre-heresy army I can say that if their was an exceptional 40k game then I would be not spending this money on plastic crack.

Eternal crusade seems promising enough, even if they are trying to get PC gamers to play a shooter with a gamepad.

They already have made a extremely well selling video game and it didn't kill them, DAW II sold over 7 million copies and I don't think it took anything away from the tabletop market.

 

[Smeatza]

I've given up on waiting for a proper Warhammer 40k game.
It would have to have an 18+ rating and I don't think games workshop would be prepared to gamble on releasing a game with an 18 certificate.

 

[Stu35]

I'm amazed 40k is still going to be honest...

Games Workshop appear to have gone out of their way to self-destruct in recent years. Their continuing profitability is somewhat baffling to me.

Side note: Space Crusade was fucking awesome.

 

[TimeLord]

The problem seems to be that Games Workshop does not take much except the core tabletop war games very seriously. They have a record of generally choosing terrible game developers, and not supporting or using their RPG licenses very well. Honestly it's amazing their "Black Library" novel line has done as well as it has, especially given that they seem to be avoiding Kindle.

Really? Their ebook stuff doesn't work on Kindle? That's a massive pain in the arse.

Black Library ebooks can be downloaded in either ePub or mobi (or both). Kindles can read mobi files

 

[Batou667]

I think Games Workshop exists in that weird zone where they're selling a product almost exclusively on the premise that their target audience are too young to appreciate it. By that, I mean a 40K game that was true to the ethos of the fictional universe would be an 18-rated gorefest full of very politically-incorrect (or in contemporary doublespeak, "problematic") far-right iconography, xenophobia, classism, a simultaneous expounding of religious-style intolerance and a thoroughly acerbic parodying of religion (The Imperium is basically a sci-fi caricature of the Vatican) - and the target demographic for this is 12-year old kids. As a tabletop game 40K has long had a free pass because it's just plastic figures, the violence is imaginary and takes the form of dice being rolled. In a game, the blood and gore would be visual - and there'd be lots of it.

The above is basically why I've long thought that Gears of War was the best videogame Games Workshop never made - it deals with many of the same themes and borrows a lot of the same aesthetic, but freed of its obligation to pander to a PG12 fanbase.

On another tangent, my brother and I were playing World of Tanks the other day, and he remarked how good a 40K equivalent would be - rumbling around the battlefield in super-heavies or grav-tanks, calling down artillery and orbital bombardment, and so on. You could have individual little NPC troops running around the battlefield almost just as a backdrop, or perhaps something for your anti-infantry guns to automatically fire at. There'd be a lot of balance issues, but it's one kind of game that'd reflect the universe well.

 

[JettMaverick]

I always wanted a W40K game that basically simulated the tabletop experience, like what Magic did with Duel Of The Planeswalkers. Turn based, but with slight hints that it's presented on a tabletop (With nifty little animations as well) using the Army points system, equipping wargear, or even choosing which rule revision you want (I'm still in favour of the 2nd/3rd edition ruleset) Pretty much like a sandbox strategy game, with user created campaigns. Obviously this could be a Games Workshop cashcow with DLC squads, characters etc, which could be harsh on the funds, & the obvious point of ruining the collection/painting experience.


But at least i won't freak at losing/breaking figures....


or standing on my Kharn the Betrayer figure which found its way onto the floor.

 

[VeneratedWulfen93]

GW can't afford to make a game that will outsell their models. If people can buy a game on steam or console for £30-£40 that provides a better experience than the tabletop then nobody will buy three space marine centurions for £42.50.

At the end of the day they are a model company first and foremost. They don't even care that much for the rules they write as evidenced in the tournament scene which has generated into the "2++ star" lists that take advantage of overlapping rules.

I wouldn't mind a decent game that is faithful to the fluff and gives people who are interested in the fluff a chance to view the world without paying dumb amounts for plastic models but I doubt anything groundbreaking will come out. As a 40k player with around as a grand sunk into 2 40k armies, a warhammer fantasy army and a planned £900 on a pre-heresy army I can say that if their was an exceptional 40k game then I would be not spending this money on plastic crack.

Eternal crusade seems promising enough, even if they are trying to get PC gamers to play a shooter with a gamepad.

They already have made a extremely well selling video game and it didn't kill them, DAW II sold over 7 million copies and I don't think it took anything away from the tabletop market.

That is true about DoW II and the DoW series in general. My point is that GW will never go the whole hog when it comes to a video game experience of 40k. it's a tumultuous time for the company. On the one hand their figures are on another level, like the new Imperial Knights. On the other they have this massive disconnect with their own community and its starting to annoy TOs (tournament organizers) as they are being bombarded with new releases double quick and drowning in poorly written rules.

As it is GW will likely never put out into the gaming industry with the intention of super-high quality games while their current placeholder CEO is rocking around. I'd hang on for their management staff to change around at some point in the future and then we might see a 40k game worthy of merit.

That's just wish-listing on my part however.

 

[josemlopes]

The guys that did EYE Divine Cybermancy are making a Warhammer game, take that as you will.


At least it will probably focused on being faithfull to the series and to what the fans want out of that game (even if somewhat buggy and a mess, they did end up fixing things in EYE in one of their free DLCs)