Warhammer 40k Imperial Guard vs Space Marines

[Jay Knowles]

guardsmen only fight because if they dont win they die. If the space marines made it clear that if they would spare the survivors how many ordinary foot sloggers would turn? how many generals would take whole armies over if it meant a promotion?
the space marines wouldn't have trouble keeping hold of conquered planets, it'd just be the capturing them in the first place. To that effect, all I think the space marines would have to do is target the fanatics of a defense and bomb them from space, re. space marines have ships, imperial guard do not.

 

[Vhite]

Can someone please explain to why would Space Marines and Imperial Guard go against each other? Don't they work for the same emperor? I like Warhammer games but I never understood this part of lore.

OT Orks

 

[Jay Knowles]

Can someone please explain to why would Space Marines and Imperial Guard go against each other? Don't they work for the same emperor? I like Warhammer games but I never understood this part of lore.

OT Orks

the space marines are loyal to the emperor, the imperial guard are loyal to the imperium, it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility that the two factions could war against each other.

captcha: snow shovel. why yes, it is cold outside isn't it...

 

[Dtox333]

Me and my brother like to use the "blender" analogy.

You stuff enough crap into the blender, it will eventually clog.

The imperial guard represent this rather nicely.

 

[Vhite]

Can someone please explain to why would Space Marines and Imperial Guard go against each other? Don't they work for the same emperor? I like Warhammer games but I never understood this part of lore.

OT Orks

the space marines are loyal to the emperor, the imperial guard are loyal to the imperium, it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility that the two factions could war against each other.

captcha: snow shovel. why yes, it is cold outside isn't it...

I know that emperor is now basicly just skeleton linked to machine that keeps him alive but doesnt he still rules the empire? Or his he now just a symbol and higher ranked members of IG decide what imperium wants?

 

[shintakie10]

Space Marines. As mentioned before, the Imperial Guard really have no means of defending themselves in an all-out assault vs the Space Marines. They simply are superior all the way down to their genes. And having space ship support brings the Space Marines at a, simply put, unfair disadvantage.

*EDIT*

Numbers keep popping up as an advantage to the IG. Ok, fine. They have that advantage. Is that REALLY an advantage? The technological superiority, the sheer power, strength, and, lets face it, awesomeness of the SM against insurmountable odds really makes me lean towards them. The IG can be epic at times, but, at that point where it would be IG v SM, the Empire of Man would turn their backs on the IG. Loyalty without question to the Emperor and all that.

*EDIT v2.0*

I realize that my avatar is a Necron, and Necron use... well, numbers to their advantage. My judgement still stands.

Who has more guts? The guys in the giant power armor who are literally bred for combat, with the best tech available, or the guy with the flashlight and a paper bag for armor who still goes out there to defend the Imperium?

The IG is infinitely more awesome than those wussy Space Marines because of that fact. The Guard stands against the exact same threats as the Space Marines, but they do it with only their guts and the fear of their commander shootin them if they don't follow orders in their hearts. They also win. They lose a lot in the process, but they'll send a billion men to their deaths before they give up a single inch.

 

[lcyw20]

If only standard tactics were employed, the Imperial Guard will probably win, taking very heavy losses, in a hypothetical all-out war with the Space Marines, assuming the various companies/chapters within each faction disregarded any grudge or suspicion they have for each other. There're quite a few "ifs".

Here's my beef. What is up with the infighting between the various Imperial forces?! You have books and games showing the guards, the marines, and even the Sisters of Battle fighting each other, wasting valuable manpower, resources and time that could be BETTER SPENT DEFENDING AGAINST CHAOS, ORKS, TYRANIDS, AND ELDAR!! BUT NO!!! THEY STICK INFLEXIBLY TO THEIR ORDERS, WHICH HAVE BEEN ISSUED TO EACH ORGANISATION RESPECTIVELY, OBVIOUSLY WITHOUT PRIOR COMMUNICATION BETWEEN THEIR RESPECTIVE LEADERS, AND REFUSE TO ADJUST AND ADAPT WHEN IT BECOMES OBVIOUS THE ORDERS ARE IN CONFLICT WITH EACH OTHER. You all serve the same Emperor, so do it in the most logical way--i.e. stop killing fellow Imperial forces!

You know what? Forget it! They deserve to be annihilated! Such an old, tired organisation which doesn't adjust to the realities and facts should be allowed to just die. They should all be push-overs with all the infighting, so the fact that Chaos, Tyranids, and Orks not yet able to destroy them must mean the antagonists of the franchise must really suck at what they do. Honour and loyalty is one thing, but to do so without thinking it through-- well there's no other word for it-- is stupid!

 

[GenericAmerican]

Outcome one: Space marines give the guard a bloody nose. . .well more than that, they beat the guard's skull in and break every bone in it's body. ..then they realize that this is like a featherweight beating up on a sumo, and the beaten and bloody corpse of the sumo falls over and crushes the marine to death.

Or outcome two: The people in charge of the guard realize this might actually take more than sheer numbers. And just make a beeline to the Marine's respective home and recruitment worlds, and destroy them completely. Dooming the Marine's in the process.

 

[Zipa]

Depends on the situation, if its a galaxy wide war the IG would win simply through greater numbers.

In a single engagement though the space marines would and have in the past had the upper hand and won (see Kronos and the dark crusade game ) But a lot of it is down to the commander, the same chapter lost horribly and suffered massive casulities because of a incompetent force commander and a competent imperial General.

 

[Zipa]

Can someone please explain to why would Space Marines and Imperial Guard go against each other? Don't they work for the same emperor? I like Warhammer games but I never understood this part of lore.

OT Orks

Both space marines and Imperial guard units have been known to turn to chaos. That would put them at odds with loyalist forces.

 

[veloper]

guardsmen only fight because if they dont win they die. If the space marines made it clear that if they would spare the survivors how many ordinary foot sloggers would turn? how many generals would take whole armies over if it meant a promotion?
the space marines wouldn't have trouble keeping hold of conquered planets, it'd just be the capturing them in the first place. To that effect, all I think the space marines would have to do is target the fanatics of a defense and bomb them from space, re. space marines have ships, imperial guard do not.

Well, loyal guardsman almost worship space marines anyway and there will be no fight, so I think for this crazy scenario we're not supposed to bring such ties into it.


We'll also have to assume the Navy is still willing to ship the Army, else the guardsmen are stuck on their worlds and won't be able to strike. Then it's just space marines taking out worlds one at a time, with fortress worlds like Cadia that are highly defensible, saved for last, or just besieged until they run out of supplies. So that won't work.
We'd also have to assume every other faction asleep, including human forces like the Inquisition, the Sisters and the Adeptus Mechanicus.

And then the guardsman just win, because there's so many more of them. An IG army vs an space marine army of equal value, should be a roughly equal battle, assuming an intelligent army composition.
Forget space marines and wimpy guardsmen for a moment, all armies put together is like a million tanks vs 1.

 

[infinity_turtles]

Well, this would never happen, UNLESS IT WAS SOME ELDAR PLOT! BURN THE XENOS!

Imperial Guard would win though. They can make the sacrifices to take the home and recruitment worlds of the Space Marines, even if they have to literally drown each of them in the bodies of the Guard. Space Marines take forever to recover from losses and have some pretty important things that can't be replaced. Imperial Guard however is easily replaced.

 

[Morti]

I know that emperor is now basicly just skeleton linked to machine that keeps him alive but doesnt he still rules the empire? Or his he now just a symbol and higher ranked members of IG decide what imperium wants?

As I understand it, he's still technically alive in the Golden Throne, but his only way he can communicate is through the Tarot Cards, psychicly charged cards through which certain individuals are able to divine His Will. (Personally, I doubt that his will is being enacted any more, or has at least been warped).

The High Lords of Terra are the current "rulers" of the Empirium, each being the highest ranking member or the twelve main organisations that make it up.

Supposedly, the High Lords uneringly enact His Divine Will, but personally, I doubt it, they're being delusional at best, self serving at worst (eg, the Emporor was a devout atheist, knowing that belief is what creates warp entities. What would he think of the Echlesiarchy?).

Theoretically, if the Emperor were to be revived (or killed off fully and allowed to reincarnate as a warp god), the High Lords could turn traitor (again, either out of delusion or self interest) and take a significant chunk of the Imperium with them you could get a situation similar to this thread. Although I doubt it would ever be as clear cut. Some Imperial Guard are just as devout as any Space Marine and there'd probably be a fair few chapters that would dismiss the 'new' Emperor as chaos trickery.

On topic: assuming that "Imperial Guard" realy means "Imperial Army sans Space Marines", the IG would win through shear weight of numbers, let alone the tactical advantages they have.

If you mean literally just the Guard versus the Marines, then marines win since the guard will be stuck planetside whilst the marines can potter about in their battle barges picking them off as they please.

 

[v3n0mat3]

Space Marines. As mentioned before, the Imperial Guard really have no means of defending themselves in an all-out assault vs the Space Marines. They simply are superior all the way down to their genes. And having space ship support brings the Space Marines at a, simply put, unfair disadvantage.

*EDIT*

Numbers keep popping up as an advantage to the IG. Ok, fine. They have that advantage. Is that REALLY an advantage? The technological superiority, the sheer power, strength, and, lets face it, awesomeness of the SM against insurmountable odds really makes me lean towards them. The IG can be epic at times, but, at that point where it would be IG v SM, the Empire of Man would turn their backs on the IG. Loyalty without question to the Emperor and all that.

*EDIT v2.0*

I realize that my avatar is a Necron, and Necron use... well, numbers to their advantage. My judgement still stands.

Who has more guts? The guys in the giant power armor who are literally bred for combat, with the best tech available, or the guy with the flashlight and a paper bag for armor who still goes out there to defend the Imperium?

The IG is infinitely more awesome than those wussy Space Marines because of that fact. The Guard stands against the exact same threats as the Space Marines, but they do it with only their guts and the fear of their commander shootin them if they don't follow orders in their hearts. They also win. They lose a lot in the process, but they'll send a billion men to their deaths before they give up a single inch.

I do realize this. Several codexes talk extensively about the bravery of the IG. Taking on seemingly insurmountable odds, etc. My judgement yet stands. The SM are no cowards and will, and have done so, take down a million before one or two of them die. There simply is no better fighting force in the Imperium.

 

[Jay Knowles]

Can someone please explain to why would Space Marines and Imperial Guard go against each other? Don't they work for the same emperor? I like Warhammer games but I never understood this part of lore.

OT Orks

the space marines are loyal to the emperor, the imperial guard are loyal to the imperium, it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility that the two factions could war against each other.

captcha: snow shovel. why yes, it is cold outside isn't it...

I know that emperor is now basically just skeleton linked to machine that keeps him alive but doesnt he still rules the empire? Or his he now just a symbol and higher ranked members of IG decide what imperium wants?

he's a symbol for the imperium to rally behind, the space marines are loyal to the man 'the emperor' and protect him, they basically go out killing anyone who's a threat to the emperor. the imperium is more geared towards protecting the ideal of the emperor and what he stood for, or what he was perceived to stand for. unfortunately no one knows if they're right because he cant talk, so over time i guess the ideals of the imperium could change and shift, but the space marines will always be loyal to the man.

 

[Jay Knowles]

*edit* double post

 

[Tanis]

Clone Troopers would kick both their asses.

This made me laugh, have you even seen the slightest bit of 40k?

Yes, which is why I had a good laugh at my own post.

 

[Timmy Lynn]

If this was a fight between A space marine and A guardsman, then it would be no contest. even a chapter vs an IG army of 10'000 men would not stand a chance, but as you pile on more IG then the odds get to the point where there insurmountable even for space marines. But then you have to factor in who sides with who special division wise. for instance the adeptus mechanicus are loyal to the imperium because they see the emperor as the incarnation of the ommisire ( Read:machine god)so they would probably fight along side the space marines if they could be convinced un-mass that the imperial guard were trying to harm or do harm to the spacemarines who are basicly the emperors children, so would probably side with them. same with the eccalistery and the sisters of battle. But its alot of ifs and buts. in a straight up fight between ALL spacemarines, so about a million all told who put aside grudges towards the other chapters, and the entire IG, so about one or three trillion on some mythical giant world where no one needs food or resupply of any kind, the space marines would fight but be crushed out right because NOTHING can stand up to somthing 3000 times the bodys it does. of course factoring in Titians if the adeptus mechanicus did fight that still does little to even the odds, again same with the sisters of battle. If we were talking about all of the non-standered imperium forces vs imperial guard that evens the odds a little more but not to the point where it would be anywhere near a fair fight. you would just be left with billions of dead and no clear victor becasue in that circumstance the gaurd would be reduced to such a pitiful amount it would not be able to do its job. so all in all 1V1 the spacemarines win 1V3000 Then its no contest the guard would win.


Also Astratys issue bolt rounds can take out a baneblade, if you dont belive me then read what the raven guard did to one in the SM codex with there attack bikes. ALSO not bias, and anyone who says other wize can answer to the box of spacmarines under my desk on the tabletop.

 

[Roxas1359]

snip

Please don't necro old threads, it's against the rules actually. Also, so are versus threads. XD

OT: I choose neutral to stay on topic because I've never played a Warhammer 40K game so I wouldn't know.