Warhammer 40k Imperial Guard vs Space Marines

[Iwata]

In a full-blown war against the Imperium, the Astartes wouldn't stand a chance, They no longer have the power they had before the Heresy, which is kinda the point of the whole thing. On average, there are a thousand chapters of a thousand marines each. This, of course, varies a lot as chapters are founded or destroyed, but on average, a million marines, with no support from anyone else and relying only on their limited supply and support chains, will get trounced by the Imperium's war machine.

The Imperium has billions of men, and billions more to call on reserve, whereas marines take decades to replace losses. The Imperial fleet will make short work of any Astartes fleet, which is basicaly just a way to get from point A to point B, and really small in size. Not to mention the Imperium can also use other agencies like the Inquisition, Assassins, Titan Legions, etc.

So, yeah. Being super human and all is pretty nifty, but you can't fight a whole galaxy.

P.S.- I've played Blood Angels since 2nd ed., so I have no bias here.

 

[Steeltrap]

The war would be the IG and the navy vs all the Space Marines. The other parties in the Imperium are up for grabs for whoever can claim or persuade them to join their side.

 

[TimeLord]

..you don't call on the Green Beret to say siege a town.

No, you call them to assassinate the mayor and blow up the supply depot. By constant use of disruption and irregular warfare an elite group could run circles around a big bloated army. The Space Marines would never just stand there and let themselves be overwhelmed. Titans and a trillion men are all well and good, but what happens when the transport ships are sabotaged, the plans intercepted, the lines of communication cut? The compact nature of the Space Marines is an asset against against a force as cumbersome as the I.G..

The Space Marines are too arrogant to use -camouflage-. Actual guerrilla warfare is "beneath" them.

Incorrect. See the Raven Guard and especially the Alpha Legion pre-Heresy.

 

[warrcry13]

Space Marines would win. See, the only reason space marines are weak in anyway, is because they are so spread out. If you were to get all of the Space Marines in one location, they would win every war against any race or force. They have the best gear, arguably the most powerful weapons, and the most conviction. After the first 30 minutes of combat, the entirety of the Imperial Guard army would be running away while screaming for their mothers.

You have completely forgot about the Death Korps of Krieg haven't you? No way would the Space Break their morale.....It's impossible. Even Necrons can't make Death Korps break.

Don't forget Cadians either. THey are used to fighting much worse than space marines. You also have the Catachans. That's just to name a few. Then you got Baneblades, armor companies and other mechanized vehicles.

 

[TimeLord]

..you don't call on the Green Beret to say siege a town.

No, you call them to assassinate the mayor and blow up the supply depot. By constant use of disruption and irregular warfare an elite group could run circles around a big bloated army. The Space Marines would never just stand there and let themselves be overwhelmed. Titans and a trillion men are all well and good, but what happens when the transport ships are sabotaged, the plans intercepted, the lines of communication cut? The compact nature of the Space Marines is an asset against against a force as cumbersome as the I.G..

Those actions won't ever win you a war on their own though, at the end of the day you need to be able to take and hold territory lest you be forever at risk of becoming enveloped.

Also it should be noted that only a single Space Marine chapter, Raven Guard, fights like how you mention. Unconventional tactics and guerrilla warfare are viewed as beneath most space marines, some like the Black Templars don't even have scouts.

I'd contest that the Alpha Legion, especially pre-Heresy, would count too. They excelled at covert ops and all the sneaky stuff that got Roboute Guilliman looking down his nose at them. It's too bad Alpharius and Omegon weren't on the opposite side of the Galaxy with Corax and Curze as they would have gotten along famously with the Raven Guard and Night Lords. Instead they were stuck with the staunch Imperial Fists and Ultramarines.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

The Space Marines conquered the galaxy once, they only needed the Imperial Army to hold it for them. The Space Marines could conquer the galaxy twice, but then who would hold it for them after they've killed all of the Imperial Guard?

 

[warrcry13]

Imperial guard would win hands down no questuions I don't fucking care how kick ass the space marines are. Step one. Surround and planatary bombard into oblivion every space marin planet, space station and fortress. Mop up survivors.

You can;'t beat that, The mary sue fanboys can shut up about how awesome the marines are. I don't give a fuck how great the Space Wolves are, a imperial fleet destroys Fenris completely. How awesome would the Ultramarines be if Maccragge gets cyclonic bombarded for a few weeks. None of the space marine chapters have strong fleets. All the fleets are the Imperial navy (which would fall under the guard as Imperium forces. Ditto for the Sister of Battle, the Adeptus mechanuicus and the Inquisiton.... On and the Navigators. You know the ones who drive the fucking ships? I think they'd fall under the Imperial Guard as well.

The space marines are powerful beyond belief but they can't stand up to something as vast as the Imperium.

Now if you wanna start saying the IG don't get the navy and all that, changes things. But the general dividing line in the fluff is Space marines and everything else.

(Granted the Gray Knights, and the Adeptus Custodes (sp) the Emperor's guards are kinda on the fence)

Step #1: Remember that the Imperial Navy is not apart of the Imperial Guard.

Step #2: Remember that the Navis Nobilite are not apart of the Imperial Guard.

Step #3: Remember that the Adeptus Mechanicus is not apart of the Imperial Guard.

Step #4: Remember that the fight is between the Space Marines and the Imperial GUARD and not the rest of the forces of the Imperium.

This is what makes the entire concept sketchy at best. Who supplies these forces? Where do the other forces of the Imperium stand on this? What's going on with all the xenos and heretics while this is all going down? What time period is this all taking place in!? Too many variables not accounted for.

Well when we take that into considertion the fight would never happen. Mainly because no one can travel the warp without a Navigator not even the Space Marines. They have no way of sending messages without an Astropath either.

How weird captcha is common law

 

[fish iron4]

Clone Troopers would kick both their asses.

This made me laugh, have you even seen the slightest bit of 40k?

 

[kouriichi]

Space Marines would win. See, the only reason space marines are weak in anyway, is because they are so spread out. If you were to get all of the Space Marines in one location, they would win every war against any race or force. They have the best gear, arguably the most powerful weapons, and the most conviction. After the first 30 minutes of combat, the entirety of the Imperial Guard army would be running away while screaming for their mothers.

You have completely forgot about the Death Korps of Krieg haven't you? No way would the Space Break their morale.....It's impossible. Even Necrons can't make Death Korps break.

Don't forget Cadians either. THey are used to fighting much worse than space marines. You also have the Catachans. That's just to name a few. Then you got Baneblades, armor companies and other mechanized vehicles.

No, i know they exist. Its just that, you have their Space Marine counterparts that are equally as scary. The Black Templar who are more fanatical then any other legion, and fight only in melee combat, and then the Salamanders, who specialize in flame weaponry and have mastercrafted everything, then theres the Blood Angels who can cannot stop from getting close range, going into a blood lust and chain swording everything within 3 miles into a fine paste.

In the end, Space Marines are the most devastating army out there, tech wise, armor wise, and conviction wise. Every Space Marine will fight to the death. A large portion of the IG would throw their weapons to the ground and beg for the emperors mercy at the mere sight of an angry space marine. I mean, we can go by Lore, or by Board rules. Board rules, yes the IG would probably win just be overwhelming numbers, and sheer luck of the dice. But lore wise, it would be in the Space Marines favor every fight. The sight of everyone you served with exploding into red mist because of bolter rounds is enough to break the will of most IG soldiers.

It would be one of the better match ups in my opinion, but i think the Spehss Mahreenz would win. Their weapons are just..... to devastating in comparison. Even vehicle wise, the Space Marines are roughly equal. Were talking about moving lascannons with a chunk of steel and heavy bolters attached to them.

But then again, your talking to a Nurgle fan who thinks both armies would be crushed by Papa Nurgles Sweet embrace <3

 

[fish iron4]

Well in Dawn of War 1 the imperial guardsman get demoralised so easily they would just get roflstomped by the Space Marines who can just rally and get their morale back.

Uhm this is 40k lore, the games have it entirely wrong, as many computers cant handle a million guardsmen all at once.

 

[HellsingerAngel]

Well when we take that into considertion the fight would never happen. Mainly because no one can travel the warp without a Navigator not even the Space Marines. They have no way of sending messages without an Astropath either.

How weird captcha is common law

Librarians are able to pilot a vessel in a pinch, just not as well as a navigator.

 

[Smeatza]

While the imperial guard are impressive in the fact they're only human I think they're generally being over-estimated.
Still as far as I can tell there arn't any estimates for total number of space marines so whether you can say the SM would be sufficiently outnumbered I don't know.
If I try to include any of the other forces things get messy.

It's all heresey in my eyes anyway. All Imperial Guardsmen and Space Marines alike should be fighting on the side of the god-emperor, beloved by all.

 

[DirtyJunkieScum]

Incorrect. See the Raven Guard and especially the Alpha Legion pre-Heresy.

Hey! Don't forget the Reasonable Marines!

 

[Hiname]

Two full pages and no one has yet posted this? Oh geez.

But, let's behonest here...
Yes, the Imperials are many, many, MAAAAANY times more then the Mariens. (Do we count the Sisters of Battle here, too?)
So what? The Space Marines have the Inquisition fleet.

"Oh look, another imperial planet revolts. Well sucks to be them, lets NUKE IT OUT OF ORBIT AND THE WHOLE DAMN SYSTEM WITH IT."
Numbers mean nothing if your enemy can exterminate an entire sector.

 

[duckers101]

so you guys know theres about 764 named chapters in the imperium with about 1000 space marines each i know the ultra marines have a lot more so that would pick up alot of slack but they all are limted to 1000 so asuming marines are still being trained to fill in casualtys they would all have about 900 if the chapters adhere to the codex strictly (even though we know they wont cos "they be totaly G's yall" so that makes about 100,000 space marines, thats being generious, against the trillions of guard? got so my moneys on the IG

sorry for dyslexia'ing all over this thred btw

 

[TheFinish]

The Space Marines aren't the only ones with Exterminatus capable weapons, the Navy has them too.

And lets be serious here, all this hit and run tactics stuff with the marines is well and good, but the moment you attack their homeworld they'll lose their shite and fly right into a battle they can't win. They're sentimental like that. And to the first guy to bring up Fenris, that's true, but it was also a renegade without actual, proper, Imperial support.

And this is, again, considering the Mechanicus stays neutral. If they side with anyone, then that side has an inceredible advantage in the form of maintenance, forge worlds and Titan Legions. The Marines would be completely screwed if the Mechanicus doesn't help them, because unlike guardsmen, whose weapons and ammo and tanks and things can be made in massive quantities and is easy to repair, marine tanks and weapons requires much more upkeep.

So in the end, the Marines can't win. Which was the whole point of Guilliman castrating the Legions after the Horus Heresy.

 

[PrinceOfShapeir]

Two full pages and no one has yet posted this? Oh geez.

But, let's behonest here...
Yes, the Imperials are many, many, MAAAAANY times more then the Mariens. (Do we count the Sisters of Battle here, too?)
So what? The Space Marines have the Inquisition fleet.

"Oh look, another imperial planet revolts. Well sucks to be them, lets NUKE IT OUT OF ORBIT AND THE WHOLE DAMN SYSTEM WITH IT."
Numbers mean nothing if your enemy can exterminate an entire sector.

Uh...no.

The Space Marines do not command the Inquisition. The Inquisition can in theory command the Space Marines, but the Marines have no authority over the Ordos of the Inquisition.

 

[Daverson]

The guard, obviously. Even assuming that other groups they're traditionally associated with (Navy, Titans etc.) remained neutral.

Marines are swell and all, but they're a rapid reaction force, nothing more. They'd undoubtedly be able to take ground from the guard, but they wouldn't have the numbers or equipment needed to properly hold or occupy it.

'Sides, while all dem humies are arguin' 'bout hooz da boss, da boyz can come an' clobber da hool lot uv'em.

 

[warrcry13]

Space Marines would win. See, the only reason space marines are weak in anyway, is because they are so spread out. If you were to get all of the Space Marines in one location, they would win every war against any race or force. They have the best gear, arguably the most powerful weapons, and the most conviction. After the first 30 minutes of combat, the entirety of the Imperial Guard army would be running away while screaming for their mothers.

You have completely forgot about the Death Korps of Krieg haven't you? No way would the Space Break their morale.....It's impossible. Even Necrons can't make Death Korps break.

Don't forget Cadians either. THey are used to fighting much worse than space marines. You also have the Catachans. That's just to name a few. Then you got Baneblades, armor companies and other mechanized vehicles.

No, i know they exist. Its just that, you have their Space Marine counterparts that are equally as scary. The Black Templar who are more fanatical then any other legion, and fight only in melee combat, and then the Salamanders, who specialize in flame weaponry and have mastercrafted everything, then theres the Blood Angels who can cannot stop from getting close range, going into a blood lust and chain swording everything within 3 miles into a fine paste.

In the end, Space Marines are the most devastating army out there, tech wise, armor wise, and conviction wise. Every Space Marine will fight to the death. A large portion of the IG would throw their weapons to the ground and beg for the emperors mercy at the mere sight of an angry space marine. I mean, we can go by Lore, or by Board rules. Board rules, yes the IG would probably win just be overwhelming numbers, and sheer luck of the dice. But lore wise, it would be in the Space Marines favor every fight. The sight of everyone you served with exploding into red mist because of bolter rounds is enough to break the will of most IG soldiers.

It would be one of the better match ups in my opinion, but i think the Spehss Mahreenz would win. Their weapons are just..... to devastating in comparison. Even vehicle wise, the Space Marines are roughly equal. Were talking about moving lascannons with a chunk of steel and heavy bolters attached to them.

But then again, your talking to a Nurgle fan who thinks both armies would be crushed by Papa Nurgles Sweet embrace <3

Guardsmen see their friends die constantly. You won't have the vast majority of the army break. You may have sections break which you then use that hole to circle and eventually crush under the crush of Humanity. Guardsmen who stand their ground whent he hordes of demons and chaos worshipers charge them. I think they can handle superhumans. Sure some will break, but not all. IF such a conflict were to take place you can be damn sure they will have a charismatic leader to lead. Also don't forget guardsmen also utilise plasma weaponry and mounted heavy bolters.

 

[flames09]

Spak marianas over impaled gerd any dai