Given if you ask most PvP/RvR players in an MMO what the perfect model was, most would say DAoC, I'd say it's still pretty relevent, the 3 faction system, kept things interesting.Karathos said:
Warhammer Online Studio Mythic Entertainment Shuttered By EA
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
- Start date
Its really hard for me to blame EA for Warhammer, for Mythic was working on it for at least a year when EA purchased them and couple that with GameWorkshop and the rumors that they wanted approval for everything. Dungeon Keeper definitely falls squarely onto EA's lap though.thebobmaster said:
I liked Dark Age of Camelot a lot and really enjoyed the RvR system, I was hoping that the three faction system in ESO would be as interesting, but it wasn't for me. I probably would go back to the game if they lowered the subscription cost for $15 for a game without any major updates in years is a little hard for me to justify.Rellik San said:
Believe it or not, I totally agree with you about Dungeon Keeper Mobile. That was a total screw-up, and can be almost entirely blamed on EA. The point behind my post was to show that while people have fond memories of Mythic, and want to blame EA for shuttering them, Mythic was not in a very good condition when EA bought them, and most likely would have shut down earlier had EA not intervened.Sanunes said:
Am I saying that their games got better after EA? No. That's totally subjective, and I do not have the information to say anything quality-wise about their older games. However, a developer that is doing well financially would not have half a decade working on nothing new except for a game that was ultimately cancelled.
The longest running MUD of all time bit is wrong though, that belongs to NannyMUD(mud.lysator.liu.se 2000), which also started in 1990, and is still running. (It was the first MUD I played, back in 1993). I still remember the address more than 20 years later, from typing it into telnet so many times.vallorn said:The fine folks at KnowYourMeme have added the updated roster:Soviet Heavy said:
May those brave warrior souls rest easy in Valhalla...
After a fifty percetn drop in sales and their only major franchise being suddenly annual sequelised by Visceral games, my money's on DICE shortly after BF5 or Battlefront 3 is released... unless they're super mega hits.Mirrorknight said:
To the best of my knowledge the problem with Troika was disputes over game content. They wanted to do, what they wanted to do, and negotiated contracts with companies like Atari and Sierra to produce games with a free hand. Their publishers however freaked out about some of the content, especially sexual stuff, and forced them to release games with earlier builds from the initial product. Troika also had a nasty habit of trying to get payback under such circumstances and put things into their games to get the goat of their publisher. For example with "Arcanum" they cut out a bunch of sexual content, but kept a cut down version of the bordello, one thing snuck into the final release was the option to ask for "something different" and have sex with a sheep named "Dolly", Dolly allegedly being the nickname of one of the publishers that forced them to release an earlier build. They also left in a certain amount of unfinished content but left it in such a way as to be accessible. "Temple Of Elemental Evil" was a similar case, with content that was removed from the game/unfinished in an earlier build being easily accessible with a bit of work (The Circle Of Eight unlocked and repaired a good part of it) it also included a sort of "trap" where there was a pirate dentist who you can recruit for your party if you win his freedom from a pirate captain, the guy doesn't tell you that when he says he was recruited for being "different" he means "gay", and when he's rescued he's "grateful" and performs unsolicited surprise oral sex on a male character talking to him.Pinky said:
On some levels Troika was ahead of it's time, a lot of what they tried to do would be taken for granted nowadays, but the bottom line is that they were apparently immature and hard to work with, not easily accepting of publisher control. Apparently from the perspective of publishers the end result wasn't as important as the fact that they had to force games back to earlier builds, and Troika was kind of immature about it.
The point here is that I think Troika died for reasons other than sales success, and is probably more missed by gamers than by publishers. Bioware in comparison seems to play better with it's publishers, you haven't seem them (allegedly) insulting their bosses in games or putting in content to irk them. Nor has Bioware apparently been made to release an earlier version of a game at the last minute for content reasons.
Apparently Mythic DID make a F2P version all ready to go, however EA lost the Warhammer licence to SEGA.Fdzzaigl said:
That's why the MOBA they were making got the axe as well.
Warhammer online was not made under EA, it had been in works for years before EA bought mythic so EAs involvement in the project was miniscule at best.thebobmaster said:
The game was released a year or so after EA bought Mythic, meaning that Mythic had most of the groundwork done. If i remember correctly they where allready in a friends and family CBT and had allready shown off their work on E3.
EA bought them precisely because of Warhammer online, they wanted that game to be their WoW... to bad Mythic had no bloody clue why their former game DAOC had been successfull and overestimated their own skill all the way against the wall they crashed the game into.
EA bought Mythic in 2006. The first news that Mythic was even working on a Warhammer MMO was at E3 2005. The game was released in 2008, two years after EA bought Mythic. Even assuming they were working on Warhammer Online for a year before they announced it, they worked on it just as long under EA as they did without EA.Karadalis said:
Not to mention the fact that any time prior to 2005 would have been partially devoted to their other MMO that had been in the works, Imperator Online, since that game wasn't cancelled until 2005.
They only started work on Warhammer online after imperator online was dead thought. Also the game had been atleast in development for 2 years before EA bought mythic out (in development doesnt necesarly mean they had been coding for two years allready), also they allowed Mythic to push back the release date several months after mythic "suddenly" figured out that the players wanted to have keeps in the game..thebobmaster said:
Thing is EA did let them do whatever they wanted, they didnt force any additional staff onto Mythic (If you leave paul barnett out of the picture... he was only PR thought) and there where never any rumors of EA execs meddling into the internal affairs of mythic.
What we got thought was alot of arrogance from the devs (the blatant imbalances between classes is just whiny little players that got killed ingame because they lack skill) and some sources that cited that the entire working atmosphere at Mythic was rather toxic during all that time.
EA only stepped in when things where allready going south and fired the head staff... to late to little thought.
While i might have gotten the dates wrong Warhammer online was well under production before EA bought Mythic out and EA gave them more then enough leeway with their game. They did not pulled the trigger on the deadline. It was just mythic overpromising and under delivering.
While i did got some dates wrong i still believe that EA had nothing to do with the failure of Warhammer online. I was there on the un/official forums from day one and saw the trainwreck that was Warhammer onlines development team comming up with excuses and outright player blaming for their effed up game and people showing proof that half of their systems didnt worked correctly. (Like participation bonuses for their public quests and keep battles)
I think you misunderstood my point. I was not blaming EA for what happened with Mythic. That's the exact opposite of what I was trying to do. What I was trying to show was that Mythic was already a bit of a mess before EA came on board. Thank you, though, for helping prove my point.Karadalis said:
It seems that the safest way to be a developer would be to work under EA, so that any screw-ups on your part will get shifted to them, while you'll be able to take credit for anything that you do right.
If I remember correctly (its been a long time since I read this so I could be wrong), GamesWorkshop also shoulders blame for that for they were given a lot of final say about classes and other areas of the game so it "fit into their universe".Karadalis said:
Man, I remember during Warhammer Online's development cycle when Mark Jacobs first announced that EA was acquiring Mythic. There's was a GIANT uproar and people were absolutely pissed and disgusted, and worried. Then all the Mythic team went and said "Guys. Relax. This is a good thing. We're doing fine. EA would never shut us down."
Well, Mark. I think that was the sound of our concerns being validated.
Well, Mark. I think that was the sound of our concerns being validated.
While it may be true that games workshop just cant let go they where not responsible for the numbers but only for art and lore. At no point did games worskshop go and decide that a certain ability should do X amount of damage or that every class needs to have atleast 3 forms of crowd control or more in some cases. And they did made some big concessions for Mythic... i mean orcs, chaos and dark elfs in an alliance?Sanunes said:
Also: Dear god the CC that was spammed everywhere... tanks, damage dealers and healers.. all of them had CC and often it would boil down to who fired off their CC first. I guess they atleast took that aspect from DAOC.
Its allright if a class has one "oh shit!" button or melee classes having a snare and maybe an intercept or some such... but 3 or 4 such abilities that somehow slow down or disable your enemy? Some matches you spend entirely on your back before the pain train simply rolled over you.
As fun as the PvP scenarios where mechanics wise they where never as fun as in the low levels when most rediculus abilities and the AOE spam werent around.
Warhammer online was a bunch of good ideas horribly executed. It was the first game where tanking in PvP was possible.. but ruined by to much CC, they where the first to implement the concept of "public quest" but their participation system was broken to the core rewarding the same players with the same rankings each time even if they just sat around. Their RvR sounded awesome on paper but was so broken that they had to cut big chunks of content out of it to make it run (first the final fortresses and then the city fights themselves where cut down in size and content)