(Warning: Heavy) Thoughts on humanity

[repeating integers]

-snip-
And that has been our physics lesson for today.

Thanks for taking the time to write that - it looks like I may have been attempting to refer to the first law instead, because I sure as hell recognise "the law of conservation of energy". On the other hand it looks like I don't really understand that one either, so I'm wrong on all counts, then!

Still, I stand by my original point that life is inherently forced towards assholishness by what it has to do to survive. I think we humans have managed to transcend this somewhat by now (even if it took us a while), but we're still not fully there yet. So, @OP, I'd say don't wipe us out yet - not when the trend has shown us only getting better as society has progressed.

 

[geK0]

I found a picture of the OP

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

edit: actually.... I don't think mojo jojo wanted to kill all of humanity


this is more appropriate

THE OP IS MEWTWO!!!!

*throws masterball*

 

[WanderingFool]

TLR version for the bone-idle: The human race - Do we need it?

Boom. [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Heartwarming/RealLife]

In one link, I completely emasculated your argument.

Checkmate...

 

[Loonyyy]

Thanks for taking the time to write that - it looks like I may have been attempting to refer to the first law instead, because I sure as hell recognise "the law of conservation of energy". On the other hand it looks like I don't really understand that one either, so I'm wrong on all counts, then!

Still, I stand by my original point that life is inherently forced towards assholishness by what it has to do to survive. I think we humans have managed to transcend this somewhat by now (even if it took us a while), but we're still not fully there yet. So, @OP, I'd say don't wipe us out yet - not when the trend has shown us only getting better as society has progressed.

Oh certainly. Assholishness serves us much better as individuals than collaboration. See the Cuckoo, or for a more in depth approach, the Prisoners dilemma. And cheating, and selfishness, have the potential to serve us all pretty well. It's society, goodwill, morality, and collaboration that serve to keep us in check, and that's not always enough. In fact, depending on how much of society collaborates, and how much exploits, there are different returns on both. For instance, in a society where few collaborate, collaborating is unlikely to be successful, while in a society where everyone collaborates, there's little gain to exploiting.

The first law is a better example, and the what it is in mathematics is probably what you're after. It's a zero sum, as the colloquialism goes. If I want something, and I take it, someone else can't have it. Rather than cite the First Law of TD as an example, I'd use the analogy of the zero sum: There's always a constant amount of material stuff. Of course, when we take the concept of property into the digital communications age, we get a massive headache, but that's a topic for another thread.

 

[axlryder]

Wow this is melodramatic. Yeah, humans can be shitty. Get over it. You know what else can be shitty? Other animals. They do some really shitty stuff by human standards. Do you think a bunch of species should off themselves because they don't meet your own subjective moral standards of what's "good"?

Honestly, this whole thing smacks of an entitled sense of moral superiority and idealistic nonsense about what life "should" be combined with a rather fatalistic perspective. Not exactly something I'd aspire towards.

Honestly, the fact that humans have made it this far is truly miraculous in and of itself, and you'd throw that all away because we're not as "nice" as you'd like us to be? that's just silly. If you think humanity sucks, then do what you can to change it. Life has almost always existed in a state of conflict, but that conflict has grown increasingly more complex as life has evolved. Now perhaps it's time to fight against the base instincts that helped forge us into what we are today. Maybe we're heading down the entirely wrong path and need to be drastically course corrected. Who knows? If that's what you think we should aim for, then go ahead and fight for that goal. Don't just act like a quitter and say "oooh, humanity sucks, let's kill ourselves". That's just about the least interesting outcome I could think of.

Also, I honestly think you're overestimating human's sphere of influence in the universe as well as the seemingly greater inherent value of other hypothetical species. What's more, I imagine any other species that has managed to evolve very far past where we are now wouldn't exactly view us as much of a threat even if we did manage to get leaps and bounds ahead of where we currently are technologically (though that's totally speculative and potentially highly improbable). We may all just blow ourselves up before that point regardless.

Animals don't do "shitty" things. They do what they must to survive.

Humans, on the other hand, don't really have an excuse for all the "shitty" stuff they do, besides the fact that, perhaps, humans have just become shittier and shittier over the ages. The conditions in which we live have become better and better, yet humans remain to be shitty. Perhaps shittyness is in our nature.

By human standards, some of the objective actions of other animals would be deemed morally reprehensible by many humans, even in regards to destructive excess. The fact that animals aren't sentient enough to understand or care about the repercussions or potential implications of their actions doesn't change the objective reality of those actions. The fact that humans do some things on a lark and animals do it more instinctively also doesn't change the actions themselves. Humans are merely able to process and understand what could be deemed "wrong" about their actions, as well as have the capacity to do things for more than just instinctive survival.

The point, however, is that it doesn't matter what humans do. Like animals, we take actions. We exist in our universe. We don't need an "excuse" for the way we act just like other animals don't. We are what we are. Just because our brains allow us to act more selfishly, individualistically, and comprehend things on a deeper level doesn't mean we're suddenly special for the actions we take. As our brains evolved, we simply developed a new standard and paradigm for our own existence. It is an existence no better or worse than that of other animals. To say otherwise would be colossally arrogant. All animals are innately selfish beings and will do whatever they have to in order to meet their needs. As their brains evolve and their ability to think gets more advanced, their actions are less reflective of absolute necessity and more superfluous (for "better" or "worse"). It's been shown to be the natural course of things.

I'd like to clarify that I'm speaking in context to a "bigger picture" as the OP is. I don't think humans should just do away with morality or stop attempting to better ourselves through our own moral standards or something.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

Nah, I think it's stupid. Innumerable good deeds get done every day, they're just not usually noticed as much. All species do shitty things, we just happen to have the capabilities to do it on a grand scale.

Besides, if we all killed ourselves, I think it would be a total waste. It's fucking incredible that we evolved- don't get me wrong, other animals are amazing, but the human brain is mindbogglingly complex, and it just evolved. We've been to the fucking moon. We're pretty fucking cool.

 

[Anti Nudist Cupcake]

Well, I hate that people always have a bone to pick with other people. It could be something small like "that girl shouldn't be wearing that skirt" or it could be something huge like taking rights away from people to get married to the same sex because it isn't the norm to YOU. Or it could be making fun of someone for having red hair. Or it could be the WBC spending their lives trying to tell everyone that they deserve to suffer.

It could even be something as simple as saying that people who wear fedora's look stupid. It isn't your life, it isn't your body, they like it, what does it matter? Nothing, that's what.



People are constantly up in other people's faces. Yes this has caused wars too, this has also caused people to pick fights in bars, ruined friendships, made siblings resent each other, etc. Whyyyy? Why does it matter to you so much how other people live? If they don't hurt or inconvenience you or anyone else then why is it a problem?

 

[Da Orky Man]

TO be fair, we may be the best change the planet has. A single meter strike can and has caused way more damage than we can realistically do, yet we are the only species that could prevent such as event. Ergo, we should continue to exist, and at least our current tech level for the good of the planet.

 

[Korolev]

World War II actually gives me some hope. Because as savage and brutal as that war was, as awful and terrible as the goals of Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were.... they didn't win. That future that they were trying to create, it didn't come to pass.

Progress is slow, but possible. Human beings aren't inherently good or bad, but we inherently form order and societies over time. Humans are communal creatures, for the most part. My feeling is eventually, given enough time and the right conditions, there's plenty of hope for our species. Look at how far we've come, when you look back over the centuries. Women can vote. Slavery is official detested (although still practiced, sadly). War is, with few exceptions, no longer openly glorified. Murder rates in the developed world have plummeted. Science and technology have allowed us to understand ever more about the world.

The world has a lot of evil and heartlessness in it. But it has good people too, and our species has potential. Whether or not we'll use that potential, well, that's up to us and history. But it's there.

 

[Bobic]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Borlaug

Just peruse the introduction to that article. That guy there, saved one billion people, so don't go around saying we're all shit, and that's just an extreme example, there are millions of people who work on the side of peace and compassion and billions more who're just average none-hurtful people. Don't go blaming an entire race on the actions of only a portion of that race.

And I'd argue society is improving, it just evolves at a glacial speed. You've mentioned slavery, well, there's a lot less of it now than there used to be. More people are working on protecting the animals we share this rock with. Women's rights have improved in recent years. Education in general has gotten better and been made available to more people, which leads to more enlightenment. Yes, there are a lot of shits in all areas of all societies, but who knows, in 500 years there might not be so many. Sure, we'll all be too dead to see it, but it might turn out pretty cool.

 

[Vigormortis]

> OP and several other people rant about how pitiful, disgusting, and (specifically) violent humanity is
> they lament about how awful it is to see humans act so abhorrently destructive to one another
> they end rants by saying they want to destroy all humans


The whiny-toned hypocrisy of this thread is quite humorous.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Yeah. Congrats. You've figured out that humans can be shitty. You've discovered that war is an ugly thing.

All I can say: Welcome to the world. This is what life IS. It's not some grotesque thing unique to humanity. All life can, and often is, destructive and violent.

But you know what? As far as life on this planet goes, humans are pretty damn far ahead of the curve when it comes to being NICE to ourselves and other species. There aren't many other creatures out there that will make a point of helping others by sacrificing their own "resources" or well-being, if they even attempt to help at all.

So...get over it. There are a lot of "bad" people out there, but there are just as many "good". The key is to admire the good ones and to tell the bad ones to "fuck off".

 

[briankoontz]

It takes a lot of ignorance to blame "human nature" for outcomes which are dependent on many factors only lightly related to human nature.

Take the current examples - most of the military conflict in the world at the moment is in Africa and the Middle East. This has nothing to do with "human nature" or the "racial nature" of the people in those regions but has a lot to do with outside money and weapons coming in to try to control the regions for their resources.

Many Africans are starving or close to it, so they pick up a gun and kill whoever the warlord tells them to instead of not having anything to eat. Not "human nature".

World War II was a big wake up call for the world in terms of the newly destructive power of modern weaponry. Ideology wasn't the problem there - ideology can only be carried so far if all you have is a squirt gun. Ideology was an excuse for power-hungry people to exert domination, just as the US military machine does in current times under the ideology of capitalist market fundamentalism. Noone really believes in totalitarianism, but there's no better system than totalitarianism for providing tremendous pleasure to people who love power.

Even in the heart of the global empire, in America itself, most Americans are not capitalists. It's not "American nature" to be assholes.

The world is made up largely of servants and slaves, and we powerless people are at the mercy of powerful forces. That's why wars happen. If we are able to control our own lives, finally, everything will change for the better.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

The only part of this that's "heavy" is my own weariness with this kind of sentiment. Sheesh, you're not the first person to think humanity sucks, and you won't be the last. Get over yourself.

I think this is appropriate:

 

[Kieve]

Suggested reading: "The Island" [http://www.rifters.com/real/shorts/PeterWatts_TheIsland.pdf] by Peter Watts.

I can't really describe it without spoiling things, but it's a short read and well worth your time. Bottom line being, humanity isn't more horrible than anything else in the cosmos.

Pretty much everything has already been said in the first page, but as depressing as the human species can be sometimes, there's a lot of good out there too, if you're looking for it.

 

[BytByte]

This thread encapsulates why humanity is pretty freakin awesome. There are people who want to give up and only see the negative side, while there are others who take the whole picture of humanity into account. I like us and the good we have done and CAN STILL DO is far better than what some rotten apples have done.

 

[barbzilla]

I found this repeating slideshow of pictures from the Battle for Stalingrad. I felt the hope beginning to dissipate from me just watching it.

It got me thinking: In countless bloody battles like Stalingrad that have occurred throughout the centuries, fully grown humans have been reduced to their very worst qualities. They have allowed confrontations to transform them into twisted, brutal parodies of their former selves. Conflicts boil over borders like an all-consuming plague as these savage butchers systematically destroy everything in sight fighting over land. Earth. The only home they've ever known in their lives. And at the end of it all, those who survived have forgotten who they were.

I could probably poke my head out the fucking window right now and hear someone getting into a fistfight over something utterly inconsequential. And this isn't even Glasgow. The vicious cycles of xenophobia, ignorance and violence don't seem to want to end.

I cannot stand the idea of this race reaching other planets and civilizations in its current condition. What would they bring, what could they bring to other races besides their own poisonous, lethal dogmas? Their diseases? Slavery? The same mistakes of their past would be repeated ad nauseum, on an increasingly large scale.

During my time here I have started thinking that the most noble act the human race could commit would be to end itself entirely. It would be an act of selflessness and mercy to anyone else out there in the cosmos. Otherwise, since starvation and disease don't seem to be killing enough of the population, war will probably pick up the slack. Again and again.

Anyway, I might as well ask people what they think. Do you find yourselves feeling this way? Ever snapped and wanted to "kill all humans", as the saying goes?

-----

TLR version for the bone-idle: The human race - Do we need it?

Yes, but no. Allow me to explain.

I do get those feelings sometimes, so I can say yes, but I do not believe in the cause because there is hope. Mankind has been evolving for many many years, the evolutions have been minor, but they are existent. The trend in said evolution is towards greater intelligence. I know it doesn't seem that way, but the average will always seem like the average to people looking at it from the inside. If you look back at the past there are fewer and fewer acts of true intelligence the further back you go (unfortunately there isn't any definitive proof to what I am saying, however the mere fact that we have so many groups dedicated to abolishing mistakes of the past lends me confidence).

You might ask what purpose intelligence serves in the hope for humanity. Truly intelligent people tend towards being more peaceful and aware of others needs/feelings. You could counter that with the fact that it is intelligent people that invent destructive objects, but that is at the behest of the people paying them (who tend towards lesser intelligence). Your average scientist works in a field that interests them under the payment of the people with the money. The people with the money tend to be sharp, but not truly intelligent. They put the dollar above a person, but I am getting sidetracked.

There have been studies showing that the more intelligent a person, the less prone to violence they are. Though it isn't universally true. There are some very intelligent people who are quite violent (see Pol Pot). If we are tending towards intelligence in our evolution, there will eventually come a time where we are not such barbaric people. This time is most certainly not now, but it will eventually come. It is during that time that I hope we are ready to visit other places.

TLDR: The more we grow as an intelligent race the more in touch we are with the things and people around us. Eventually we will not be the grotesque and barbaric people we are now.

 

[Movitz]

The Threadstarter seems to forget something:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVESMxs4rbA

 

[Racecarlock]

You don't want humanity to die, you want stupidity to die. Whether that stupidity is the kind that causes tyranny and thousands of deaths and lots of oppression or the kind of stupidity that causes people to whack each other in the balls and turn up treadmills high enough for them to fall off.

That's understandable, at least. The alternative is that all of the actually smart people like you, me, and most of the people on this forum would also die. And that would suck.

 

[Cheesepower5]

I was having a bad day, but it's hella' heartening seeing everyone sticking up for our kind here. It's easy to pass any group off as undesirable or inferior. That you guys have all thrown away that temptation and taken the good with the bad is admirable, to say the least. And TC, I hope you're just in a rough spot and get over this way of thinking soon. I really do, because those bad times are going to end and if you're still thinking this way then - that's kind of depressing. Enjoy what you can, don't worry how good we are as a species. Nothing is perfect, so live up to what you can.

 

[deathbydeath]

You don't want humanity to die, you want stupidity to die. Whether that stupidity is the kind that causes tyranny and thousands of deaths and lots of oppression or the kind of stupidity that causes people to whack each other in the balls and turn up treadmills high enough for them to fall off.

I appreciate this.

OP, don't be such a nihilistic nancy. Sure, people are stupid, we've been that way since Adam and Eve started to experiment with their meal habits. That's how we roll.

One thing that really irritates me is when people finally realize that something is shit, they won't fucking stop. Sure, Hitler. Sure, sex trafficking. Sure, Youtube comment sections. Sure, those all exist, but hasn't it occurred to you to remove your nostrils from the garbage can and cast a glance at the damn roses on the other side of the sidewalk? To start, here's an image [http://s3.amazonaws.com/data.tumblr.com/tumblr_lr41ffw0jr1qhxie4o1_r1_1280.jpg] I yoinked from the link WanderingFool posted.

Here's an idea: If you aren't a fan of all the shit going down in the world, then change it. Be that person everyone brings up as a counterpoint when someone like you starts bitchily waxing philosophical on human nature and shit. Stop whining and get shit done.