He was a good leader, and did great things for Germany (like getting it's economy back on track). However, he still order millions of people killed and royally fucked up on the Russian Front.
was hitler a great leader? bad leader?
- Thread starter Tim_Buoy
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It's been said over and over in this thread, but I'm going to repeat and reiterate.
Yes, he was a great leader. Judging a leader has nothing to do with the intentions according to your beliefs, because obviously if you oppose them then you can't judge fairly. The basic facts are that he rallied his country from an utter depression, he brought his people together. He inspired his people, built a military, and led one of the greatest conquests in ths history of this planet. A single country waged a full scale war against Europe and ravaged a great deal of it, requiring the joint forces of several others to hold and break his defensive lines.
Yes, he was a murderer, and there is no level of hell deep enough to properly punish his actions. However, his actions regarding the holocaust aside, he was one of the greatest political and military leaders this world has ever been graced with, and if the buddists are right and he was reincarnated, hopefully this time around he'll use those leadership skills to better ends. God knows we always need leaders, and the good ones are rare. He was one of the best.
Yes, he was a great leader. Judging a leader has nothing to do with the intentions according to your beliefs, because obviously if you oppose them then you can't judge fairly. The basic facts are that he rallied his country from an utter depression, he brought his people together. He inspired his people, built a military, and led one of the greatest conquests in ths history of this planet. A single country waged a full scale war against Europe and ravaged a great deal of it, requiring the joint forces of several others to hold and break his defensive lines.
Yes, he was a murderer, and there is no level of hell deep enough to properly punish his actions. However, his actions regarding the holocaust aside, he was one of the greatest political and military leaders this world has ever been graced with, and if the buddists are right and he was reincarnated, hopefully this time around he'll use those leadership skills to better ends. God knows we always need leaders, and the good ones are rare. He was one of the best.
He did pull Germany out of possibly the worst economic situation any nation had ever faced up to that point. And he did it through violation of the Versailles treaty and through blaming the Jews. I can't say he was a bad leader for starting WW2. Everyone in Germany wanted to fight Britain and France. They wanted revenge and Hitler gave it to them. I can't even say that blaming the Jews was a bad move on his part, because it kept him in power.
It was when he turned on his own people that he degraded.
I'm pretty sure most of you know of Erwin Rommel. The Desert Fox. Hero of North Africa. This guy gave the Allies a run for his money. He was a master at tanks, probably the greatest tank commander to ever live. He never had a chance to lead troops in France, because Hitler felt he was getting too popular and forced him to commit suicide. And I'm fairly sure Rommel wasn't the only German casualty caused by Hitler personally. Paranoia was ultimately his undoing, and unfortunately, Hitler took it out on his own people.
I'd have to consider him a great leader regardless. Germany before and after Hitler was very progressive despite WW2. But he took paranoia out on his own people. That shit's wrong.
It was when he turned on his own people that he degraded.
I'm pretty sure most of you know of Erwin Rommel. The Desert Fox. Hero of North Africa. This guy gave the Allies a run for his money. He was a master at tanks, probably the greatest tank commander to ever live. He never had a chance to lead troops in France, because Hitler felt he was getting too popular and forced him to commit suicide. And I'm fairly sure Rommel wasn't the only German casualty caused by Hitler personally. Paranoia was ultimately his undoing, and unfortunately, Hitler took it out on his own people.
I'd have to consider him a great leader regardless. Germany before and after Hitler was very progressive despite WW2. But he took paranoia out on his own people. That shit's wrong.
Hitler was charismatic, but that's about it and charisma does not a good leader make. He was wasteful (aside from being genocide, the holocaust was a huge waste of resources), exploitative, and he tried to run everything personally, even when he wasn't qualified to do half of it. He was so bad at his decisions, that his own underlings wanted to assassinate him during WWII because he was fucking everything up and he's a good part of the reason why the allied forces won.
A good leader knows when to handle things personally and when to defer to experts for things he himself isn't an expert on. On this alone, Hitler was a terrible leader.
A good leader knows when to handle things personally and when to defer to experts for things he himself isn't an expert on. On this alone, Hitler was a terrible leader.
People here are seeming to forget what kind of leadership it requires to convince your people that another group of people must be eradicated. Bat-shit insane? Yes. Excellent leader? Actually, I'd say he was borderline genius in that sense, which would explain the insanity. Also, to note, there's sound strategic reasons behind him doing what he did, although he took it much too far for him to be successful in the long run. Here, let me explain:
When he came into office, he was leading a country that had been ravaged by an unconditional surrender about twenty years prior. Their economy was dead. You think the US depression was bad? They had it worse. Much worse. His people were desperate and needed someone to help lead them out of this time. Enter the Nazis and a man by the name of Adolf Hitler. Now, he and his party helped rebuild their economy. People had job, they had a means to support themselves, and they had hope. Most of all, however, they had pride in their nation. They loved their leader. Want to lead a group? Have them be so enamored with you that they will do anything you say.
Step 2? Create a means by which you can prove to the rest of the world that your country is not one to screw with. So, what's Hiter do? He finds minorities that are already unpopular and start whipping his people into a frenzy to annihilate them by calling them the "source of [Germany's] problems". Enter minority ghettos. Enter "work camps" presented as a means to increase productivity via slave labor. The majority doesn't have a problem with this; their great leader, whom brought them out of the largest crisis any of them had known, said that it was for the best.
Where'd he screw up? He invaded Poland too soon. The Blitzkrieg was an incredible strategy, which would have worked had he had a greater force behind it. Second mistake? He invaded Russia. To date, I can think of only one country that has ever held territory in Russia, and, even then, it was nowhere near Moscow. Sure, the US "saved the day", as we like to say it (we helped, but we were more concerned with Japan at the time), but if there was no England when we came, the European war would have turned out differently. Much differently.
...wow. Campaign setting idea.
When he came into office, he was leading a country that had been ravaged by an unconditional surrender about twenty years prior. Their economy was dead. You think the US depression was bad? They had it worse. Much worse. His people were desperate and needed someone to help lead them out of this time. Enter the Nazis and a man by the name of Adolf Hitler. Now, he and his party helped rebuild their economy. People had job, they had a means to support themselves, and they had hope. Most of all, however, they had pride in their nation. They loved their leader. Want to lead a group? Have them be so enamored with you that they will do anything you say.
Step 2? Create a means by which you can prove to the rest of the world that your country is not one to screw with. So, what's Hiter do? He finds minorities that are already unpopular and start whipping his people into a frenzy to annihilate them by calling them the "source of [Germany's] problems". Enter minority ghettos. Enter "work camps" presented as a means to increase productivity via slave labor. The majority doesn't have a problem with this; their great leader, whom brought them out of the largest crisis any of them had known, said that it was for the best.
Where'd he screw up? He invaded Poland too soon. The Blitzkrieg was an incredible strategy, which would have worked had he had a greater force behind it. Second mistake? He invaded Russia. To date, I can think of only one country that has ever held territory in Russia, and, even then, it was nowhere near Moscow. Sure, the US "saved the day", as we like to say it (we helped, but we were more concerned with Japan at the time), but if there was no England when we came, the European war would have turned out differently. Much differently.
...wow. Campaign setting idea.
I personally think hitler is a great peace time leader but his arrogance does not lend itself to war although he got lucky a few times Stalingrad proves the man shouldn't command a scout troop in a war, and he separated germans from Aryan germany with the Nuremberg laws then in 42 when the war started going against him that they basically said "ok well even if you lose this war we can still screw the jews" and murdered jews by the dozen because originally they intended to use them for slave labour many did die from the working conidtions but they were not gassed until 42.
actually obama is what brought the conversation up in the first place the guy that wouldnt here out the argument was part of a group of people holding impeach obama signs and one of them was a gigantic pic of obama with the hitler stashStefan Larsen said:
Personally, I would make a distinction between a "good" leader and an "effective" leader. Hitler was certainly an effective leader for the reasons that most people above me have stated. However, my definition of a good leader is someone who uses their leadership abilities to do good things, and although Hitler may have saved the German economy and whatnot it's pretty indisputable that the bad outweighs the good in his case.
I lol'dFunkiest Monkey said:
Basically this. He was a great leader, but he was also a complete prick.
Good leader, but prone to mistakes.
The world would be vastly different if he would have avoided a few key mistakes, like the Stalingrad disastor.
The world would be vastly different if he would have avoided a few key mistakes, like the Stalingrad disastor.
He pulled Germany out of one of the worst economic and military time they've ever experienced....granted he drove them back into one less then ten years later, but still, he fought the world and almost won, that is a pretty impressive feat, evil sure, but impressive.
Maybe at first, yes. He was charismatic enough to get his party into power with 40% of the vote, and convince enough of the country that the Communists were to blame for everything to distract them.
Even setting aside WWII and the Holocaust, though, his accomplishments during his reign were decidedly lackluster, more shine than substance.
Even setting aside WWII and the Holocaust, though, his accomplishments during his reign were decidedly lackluster, more shine than substance.
He was able to take over 2 countries, or at least parts of them, without having a bullet fired. Its arguable that had he not made one major error in his tactics (breaking his treaty w/ the Russians and creating a 2 front war), Germany could have taken over Europe, at least west of Russia. Batshit crazy... yes, complete dick... yes, amazing leader whoms overconfidence led to his downfall... yes.
They say the line between genius and crazy is a very fine one, I think he fell on the wrong side of it.
They say the line between genius and crazy is a very fine one, I think he fell on the wrong side of it.
His ideals were wrong, wrong in the way that bombing a church is bad, ie, TERRIBLE. HOWEVER, Hitler was a brilliant leader, he knew how to stir his people, and lead them with confidence and power. If you watch his speeches, he has a presence that gave to his power and ability to lead.
In terms of public speaking and inspiring I can't deny he was a great leader, as evil as he was. However, he was an absolutely horrible millitary leader. Many historians even believe Germany could have conquered Russia had Hitler left his officers to their own devices, but he insisted on running the show.