Wash, rinse, repeat...

[REDPill357]

I'm tired of stories using the same storytelling device as always, OMNIPRESENT CUTSCENES.

In Half-Life, you experience the story through Gordon's eyes. You never see a cutscene.
In Max Payne, the cutscenes are replaced with graphic novels, which I thought were really cool.
In Deus Ex, you talk to people to learn the story.

I'm tired of games like CoD4 and Halo that get praised for wonderful story telling, when both are praised for their wonderful storytelling. I want a game that does something different instead of the cutscene that you don't control.

 

[PurpleRain]

Dear Game Developers:

Mysterious Hero with Amnesia no longer does it for me. In fact, it never did.

Another prime example of why Lost Planet was such a huge let down.

RAGEING BIG MASS EFFECT SPOILER DON'T LOOK

While fighting Seren was absolutly cool in Mass Effect, who didn't think that after killing him he will mutate into a cyborg when he said that he had 'upgrades' done on him. I think it ruined the game a little bit. I would have liked it better when your team mate shot him in the head and it was all over. The glass sticking out of his chest was a good effect to. He should have just stayed dead. Also, I hear that every boss in Resident Evil is pretty much a mutant or a person that turns into a mutant. C'mon Capcom. Mix it up for once.

Thank you. Everyone take his example on how to make it known you're spoiling. I was able to do this without ruining any of the game for me.

I hope to add some veriaty in the mix of things.

 

[[HD]Rob Inglis]

RAGEING BIG MASS EFFECT SPOILER DON'T LOOK

While fighting Seren was absolutly cool in Mass Effect, who didn't think that after killing him he will mutate into a cyborg when he said that he had 'upgrades' done on him. I think it ruined the game a little bit. I would have liked it better when your team mate shot him in the head and it was all over. The glass sticking out of his chest was a good effect to. He should have just stayed dead. Also, I hear that every boss in Resident Evil is pretty much a mutant or a person that turns into a mutant. C'mon Capcom. Mix it up for once.

Yeah, I'm stuck on the tall overcoat guy boss in RE4 because I can't beat his second form.

 

[Calobi]

***********Starcraft Spoilers***********

[W]hen for the entire Terran Campaign you think Zerg was created by the humans, only to find out we're all just little playtoys of the Protoss. Yummy stuff.

I haven't played Starcraft in a while, but I thought that everyone was the playthings of the Xel'Naga, those ancient peoples that you never get to see or fight and that won't be in Starcraft 2 even though the hidden mission in Starcraft hinted they probably would be.

***********End Spoilers***********

 

[Katana314]

I really like secret endings. Everything from back when I was a kid and played Spy Fox in Dry Cereal...

What I want is a game where the player is rewarded for understanding the story. Let me give you an example.

(Player has just shot the antagonist in the leg, who is now scared and trying to back away)
Other Character: Now it's time you pay.
Antagonist: [Player], are you going to continue being his blind slave forever??? Open your eyes, THINK! What did he say to you when you first met him?...
Other Character: Shut up! Shoot him, [Player]
(Player gains control of the scene, with his gun pointed at the antagonist. He can then shoot the antagonist and end the game, or can point his gun at Other Character)
Player: It WAS you...
Other Character: PLAYER...what are you doing?!?!
Player: You were the one who first said..."Only the tallest tree falls." That was the creed of the [bad guys]!
Other Character: And I would've gotten away with it too! If it weren't for you meddling kids...

 

[ChrisP.Lettuce]

***********Starcraft Spoilers***********

[W]hen for the entire Terran Campaign you think Zerg was created by the humans, only to find out we're all just little playtoys of the Protoss. Yummy stuff.

I haven't played Starcraft in a while, but I thought that everyone was the playthings of the Xel'Naga, those ancient peoples that you never get to see or fight and that won't be in Starcraft 2 even though the hidden mission in Starcraft hinted they probably would be.

***********End Spoilers***********

START SPOILERS

You might be right, I just beat the OG Starcraft and they don't really talk much about it. There are hints of it a little bit, but more in the way that we talk about our ancient history in relation to where we are now. I also haven't beaten the Brood War campaign before, I might go do that now.

Edit: To clarify.. I just did some hunting and watched all the videos over again and we are both right. The Xel Naga did create the Zerg, but the Protoss have been flying trying to clean up their mess before all life is lost. I can't beleive I forgot about that after beating the game ten days ago.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

Samus: *trips on a rock*

Power Ups: *fall into a grating*

Samus: Noooo! My power-ups!


Anyone who gets the reference wins.

The Decline of Video Gaming, good sir

EDIT: (I shall be expecting my reward)

Here you go:

 

[TerribleTerryTate]

I may get a flaming - meh, I'll keep a fire extinquisher handy - but this lack in variation is why The Darkness appealed to me so much. I know it was based on a comic, but just the deepth in it's storyline had me addicted. You feel a connection with the characters, and there are a few twists and turns that although I expected, never truly believed would happen.
Spending time with Jenny, watching To Kill a Mocking Bird, and basically relaxing is something that caught me by surprise, but in a good/productive way. Not the 'Surprise, we know you need to open this door, but it's locked and the key is on top of Mount Everest...enjoy.'
The problem is, it's rare to come across a game that genuinely has something new to offer. Games like Portal are the exception to this rule.
People who tend to play more FPS need to realise something. Its shooting, where and when will differ, even the storyline will, but its fundamentally going to involve shooting someone, so don't expect too much to change.

 

[i_am_undead]

I'm sorry, but I'm really getting tired of the abstract and seeming ethereal sensibilities that we seem to find so often in Japanese video games. I know...I know the followers of the Atlus Cult, the worshipers of Square Soft (throwback), and the minions of Nis, are going to flame me and wait outside my house so they can beat me about the head and shoulders with bats that have the words "Disgea" emblazed along the side, but seriously, give me story. I'm tired of my heroes having amnesia, I'm tired of an unspeakable darkness roiling on the horizon, and if I have to toss up one more tent to get all my people health...I may just run myself through with a gunblade.

For all my complaining I'll still go back, I'll still sit down and play Lost Odyssey and I'll still probably buy anything that the big RPG houses push out of their birthing canals, but I long for something different in the RPG arena, I long for a story that I haven't played through on some level, I long for originality. Maybe I'm a fool to want such things...but a fool can still dream.

Dude, they already made that original game, it's called "American Girl: Julie Finds a Way." And hey, there's always "Chulip!!" That has some RPG elements to it, and when you sexually assault people, they beat you mercilessly!

 

[Knight Templar]

timed events. like 3 min to kill so-and-so, its boring, lazy andjust plain hard. it stops any inovation in gameplay. run kill run. thats all.

 

[Girlysprite]

I really like secret endings. Everything from back when I was a kid and played Spy Fox in Dry Cereal...

What I want is a game where the player is rewarded for understanding the story. Let me give you an example.

(Player has just shot the antagonist in the leg, who is now scared and trying to back away)
Other Character: Now it's time you pay.
Antagonist: [Player], are you going to continue being his blind slave forever??? Open your eyes, THINK! What did he say to you when you first met him?...
Other Character: Shut up! Shoot him, [Player]
(Player gains control of the scene, with his gun pointed at the antagonist. He can then shoot the antagonist and end the game, or can point his gun at Other Character)
Player: It WAS you...
Other Character: PLAYER...what are you doing?!?!
Player: You were the one who first said..."Only the tallest tree falls." That was the creed of the [bad guys]!
Other Character: And I would've gotten away with it too! If it weren't for you meddling kids...

I think that is a damn brilliant idea. Really!

as for things I hate; Boss battles you can't win by default. You have a battle with a boss, and at some point he/she launches some kind of super attack which whipes all the party/your character of their feet and a cutscene ensues. Hell, if the battle is scripted so that I can't win, why even bother with letting me fight?

 

[windfish]

And now - LET ME REVEAL MY TRUE FORM! Seriously, I think it's OK to kill a guy when he's a human, and then he stays dead, because you killed him. If you make a boss battle interesting and dynamic enough, the villian doesn't need to inject steroids after death and turn into some sort of Giant and Ferocious Creature. Sometimes, it's OK, when everybody knows that the guy's seriously a demon. Sometimes, though, folk just turn into a huge dragon or invariably an EVIL ANGEL or something for NO REASON AT ALL.

 

[tiredinnuendo]

***********Starcraft Spoilers***********

[W]hen for the entire Terran Campaign you think Zerg was created by the humans, only to find out we're all just little playtoys of the Protoss. Yummy stuff.

I haven't played Starcraft in a while, but I thought that everyone was the playthings of the Xel'Naga, those ancient peoples that you never get to see or fight and that won't be in Starcraft 2 even though the hidden mission in Starcraft hinted they probably would be.

***********End Spoilers***********

START SPOILERS

You might be right, I just beat the OG Starcraft and they don't really talk much about it. There are hints of it a little bit, but more in the way that we talk about our ancient history in relation to where we are now. I also haven't beaten the Brood War campaign before, I might go do that now.

Edit: To clarify.. I just did some hunting and watched all the videos over again and we are both right. The Xel Naga did create the Zerg, but the Protoss have been flying trying to clean up their mess before all life is lost. I can't beleive I forgot about that after beating the game ten days ago.

I seem to recall the manual making it clear that the Xel Naga elevated both (but created neither). They boosted the protoss mentally, came down and shared with them, lived with them, etc. It caused a dark age because they directly interfered, and they left the protoss alone after that. Centuries later, the protoss found their own way and became the species that they are now.

Then the Xel'Naga boosted the survivability of a parasite that could mimic the attributes of the creatures it absorbed. This being became the Zerg, and they eventually killed the Xel Naga.

In the secret mission, you discover Duran attempting to engineer a Protoss/Zerg hybrid, but it doesn't have much to do with the Xel Naga.

- J

 

[mofoitk]

I feel that the current selection of genre available to us is ridiculously limited - back in the good old days (half joking), they had to invent brand new game dynamics from scratch almost every time or there would have been shouts of 'Clone!' echoing down the hallways. These days, it's almost mandatory to knock out yet another fighting, driving, shooting or sports game almost the same as the one before. I guess puzzle games are still pretty unique, but they're relegated to the 'casual games' category. Other than that, it's quite hard to find new, unique games, or at least games that crossover a few genre well, such as GTA.

Marble Madness on the 360, anyone?

 

[Singing Gremlin]

I really like secret endings. Everything from back when I was a kid and played Spy Fox in Dry Cereal...

What I want is a game where the player is rewarded for understanding the story. Let me give you an example.

(Player has just shot the antagonist in the leg, who is now scared and trying to back away)
Other Character: Now it's time you pay.
Antagonist: [Player], are you going to continue being his blind slave forever??? Open your eyes, THINK! What did he say to you when you first met him?...
Other Character: Shut up! Shoot him, [Player]
(Player gains control of the scene, with his gun pointed at the antagonist. He can then shoot the antagonist and end the game, or can point his gun at Other Character)
Player: It WAS you...
Other Character: PLAYER...what are you doing?!?!
Player: You were the one who first said..."Only the tallest tree falls." That was the creed of the [bad guys]!
Other Character: And I would've gotten away with it too! If it weren't for you meddling kids...

Deus Ex. Boeing 747. Anna Navarre.
You know what I mean.

God I loved that game

 

[Melaisis]

Guys, you do realise there are spoiler tags for the forum, right?

Anyway, here's my input:

The mechanics are usually a downfall of the game environment itself. Allow me to explain (Mass Effect, Bioshock MGS2 and FFX and spoilers follow):

Spoiler

Right, let's look at Mass Effect and Bioshock to begin with. These both use the predictable twists (Hah!) of a good guy turning bad (although it is earlier on in the game in Mass Effect) and then an 'epic' final battle with a boss who happens to suddenly be overpowered. Appropriately you can beat both last bosses simply by piledriving them to Hell with all your available weapons, but anyway. This plot device in games has been going on since the first Legend of Zeldas (where earlier bosses would return in harder forms later on, as the game ended) and even was applied to a lot of the N64 collection; ranging from Lylat Wars to Super Mario. It is somewhat sad that, almost a decade on, developers are still using the same mechanics to induce a 'shock' from the audience at the game's closing minutes; even though we all realise that there's always an epic battle to end with (and, in all honesty, we would be disappointed if there wasn't). I picked Mass Effect and Bioshock out because these final encounters are explained with lore which seems like it was designed to be an excuse to bring back the character for the battle (EVE, the Reaper). I am torn between liking the fact that the writers have incorporated the entire plot into the final incarnation of the antagonist, or hating the fact they were reduced to making use of such a lowly twist just to test the player. For comparison, look at my other two examples:

In Metal Gear Solid 2, the antagonist is established about half way through the game to be Solidius. Backstory tells us how powerful he is, so when we have to face him in the end without a huge, pointless morphing scene, it doesn't surprise us. In fact, the game's writers do a wonderful job of not only using Soldius's obvious power to further the plot ("Look! There's a Harrier II!") but also to build up a great amount of anticipation with the player until the moment comes where you actually do battle him. The game is a wonderful demonstration of how writers can include some really magnificent surprises (ranging from the death of E.E to the discovery of the S3) without the entire experience resting on an average (if not slightly more quick-witted than usual) character becoming extraordinarily powerful simply for the sake that the player is going to kill them six minutes later quite easily anyway (I personally found Solidius a lot harder boss than, say, Saren).

My final game of choice, is Final Fantasy X. FFX gets a lot of stick because of the 'weakness' of the main character; but as a journey and in relation to the issue at hand: It is beautiful. Much like Mass Effect and Bioshock, the game takes place in a fantasy universe and the final boss is based around a supernatural occurrence within the world's lore. However, similar to Metal Gear Solid 2, it is established fairly early on that the end battle will be tough as old boots. It doesn't have to suddenly surprise the player with a (somewhat anticlimatic) encounter at the finale; because it is already rest assured that the final boss will be epic. And it is (although I managed to beat him with Magus Sisters). This satisfies the player, who has been baying for a piece of this gigantic beast for the entire time of playing. Along the way, big events happen due to the presence of this terrific monster (Operation Mi'Hen!) which further the plot still. On top of all this, the game still includes some of the best, tear-jerking twists I've ever experienced (Yuna's 'sacrifice', the nature of Tidus and Auron, Seymour's obsession) through any media.

Putting in a (ironically very predictable) 'twist' such as zerging the antagonist, even in the natural context of the game's backstory, just to have him or her be killed by the player moment's later regardless, is needless and, more often than not, ruins the immersion of the game.

Phew.

 

[Surggical_Scar]

I don't know if this goes along the concept of plot twists exclusively, but railroading the plot can be a really jarring experience, especially when it's forcing you to head towards a twist you can see coming.

Case and point? The Dark Brotherhood storyline in Oblivion:

Spoiler

When you're bumping off chaps via the dead drops, you can discover their Assassin's vestements. What's more, they never try to convince you that they're on your side. You just plod along, merrily stabbing away until Lucien conveniently shows up and reveals the clusterfuck.

It's quite a shame, considering that Oblivion is otherwise quite open-ended and capable of allowing you to make your own choices.

It's quite a lot to ask for from a genre which already works its knuckes to the bone, but allowing the main storylines to verge from the norm would be nice from time to time. I'd have quite liked to be able to create a truce between the Necromancers and the Mage's Guild, or take over The Blackwood Company myself and go into competition with the Fighter's Guild.

Although there's one plot twist which genuinely came out of nowhere. The end of Saint's Row:

Spoiler

Seriously, that explosion comes out of freaking nowhere. Although it's seems your character survived, so hey ho, silver lining.

 

[Choukou]

The one that came to mind straight away when I read this was 'Bioshock!'. 'Get to the bathysphere that's 10 yards in front of you.' *walk up to bathysphere* 'Oh no! A rabid Rancor has escaped from god knows where and has taken a massive shit just outside the bathysphere door! Looks like you'll have to travel to another planet to get a shovel or at least some air freshener.'
Granted, without them, the game would've been a lot shorter and I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much. This, really, was the only mechanic used to slow down the pace of the game, and it really can annoy you when it lulls you into a sense of 'oh, it's only across the room, I'm safe'. I was so used to it early on in the game that I totally saw it coming when you first enter Fort Frolic and the Bathysphere is in a room just across from the one you're in.

I think we need to take a step away from the 'Detour' mechanic *rolls up newspaper* no! NO! Bad! It's not that it's been overused. I'm all for it being used once or twice in a game. It can add a nice twist. But over 2 times in 1 game and it just gets annyoing and it feels like the developer just seriously couldn't be arsed anymore.

The only genuine surprise that I can think of that I've felt because of a game's plot twist was in KOTOR, *SPOILER!*(In white font) when you find out that you're Darth Revan *END SPOILER!* I don't know why I didn't see it coming. The writers of that game truly knew what they were doing.