Washington Tax Plan Would Punish Violent Game Makers

Roxas1359

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Veylon said:
Violent game makers aren't being punished, they are just aren't being rewarded.
For this though, why just go after games that are deemed violent? Why not equally tax all video game companies instead of the ones that make "violent" games? The fact that this singles out one type of game and not others is where I have issues with it, because it just creates more possible loop-holes in our already completely backwards tax system. Not to mention that the ESRB ratings are based on standards the ESRB makes, and those standards hold no legal grounds at all, unlike the PEGI system which works well, and "violent" games can be made rated T for Teen as well, so it might not just go after rated M games, but what is deemed "violent".
 

Eldritch Warlord

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Veylon said:
Reading between the lines, why is the government ladling out taxpayer money to video game makers in the first place? What pubic benefit is meant to be gained that offsets the cost of this measure? Are the game makers expected to share the results of this "R&D" for everyone to benefit?

Violent game makers aren't being punished, they are just aren't being rewarded.
I could see your argument if it were video games in general which were not eligible for R&D tax credits. However the bill specifies violent games specifically, which is just stupid.
 

Roxas1359

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Big_Willie_Styles said:
Then just get rid for it for all video games then? Huh? I'd be all in favor of that. The tax code should be a single page, not the monstrosity it is. But then accountants wouldn't make so much money, now would they? (The trade group for accountants recently voiced its opposition to the tax reform bill.)
Personally I've always believed in a flat-tax system as they are simple and they close a lot of the loopholes that many companies use. Problem is that will never come to be in the US because both major parties, Republican and Democrat, are basically in the pockets of companies and as a result they would lobby against such a thing. There are downsides to a flat-tax system yes, but compared to the current system we have know anything would be better.
 

deathmothon

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The problem is the broken tax system. They legislate with taxes rather than laws. The government exercises most of its control by withholding funding to state governments, or withholding taxbreaks to companies. It keeps them from having to challenge the constitution.
 

zalithar

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Most political coverage I've seen places the highly optimistic window for any tax reform sometime around 2016. The more cynical would place it after 2019. Several analysts that I have read from say it's unlikely that any major bills will be passed at all in the mid term election year (this year).
The little analysis I've seen of the bill says it will cut 'entitlements' (so no democrats voting for it), and republicans really want to have a chance in the elections and aren't willing to touch anything that might be difficult.
The short version: This plan doesn't have a chance in hell.
 

JoJo

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GamemasterAnthony said:
I see only two possible outcomes from this...

CHOICE 1: This passes, but then the Supreme Court declares it unconstitutional anyway...and the GOP dig themselves into a deeper hole for it.
CHOICE 2: This fails in the most epic way possible...and the GOP dig themselves into a deeper hole for it.

Either way... *sees what the Captcha is* Huh...the Captcha has it!

CAPTCHA: had a great fall

Nicely said, Captcha!
Is this proposed amendment unconstitutional though? I'm no constitutional lawyer, I'm not even American, but I'm pretty the U.S. Constitution just prohibits the government from making laws that prohibit free speech. This on the other hand doesn't prohibit anyone from making any sort of game they want, it rather restricts tax credits to certain games. I don't see how lack of government support could reasonably be taken as actually infringing on a person's freedom of speech.
 

Roxas1359

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Big_Willie_Styles said:
No, a majority of Republicans have been pushing tax reform for decades. It's the Democrats who've been recalcitrant. They like the tax code being complex and impossible for anybody to understand. It allows carve outs for their preferred industries whilst they get to rail against the carve outs for industries they don't favor. Never underestimate the power of demagoging when it comes to liberals. They're only good at one thing: Winning elections.
And blaming just "liberals" isn't going to fix anything. Both parties are to blame for the current way things are done, and blaming just one side never gets anything done. Just like blaming only Republicans for being "too conservative", blaming Democrats for being "liberal" doesn't solve anything at all. So yes, there are some Republicans just like there are some Democrats pushing for reform, but both parties mainly won't do it because they will lose money in some way.
 

FalloutJack

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That's funny. It reads "Washington Tax Plan Would Punish Violent Game Makers", but is reads as "Conservative Party Makes Another Kneejerk Reaction At Things It Doesn't Understand Or Like", and then it interprets as "Stupid Politicians Wave Arms Ineffectually At Issue They Can't Actually Do Anything About". *Sigh*
 

Eldritch Warlord

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Neronium said:
Personally I've always believed in a flat-tax system as they are simple and they close a lot of the loopholes that many companies use. Problem is that will never come to be in the US because both major parties, Republican and Democrat, are basically in the pockets of companies and as a result they would lobby against such a thing. There are downsides to a flat-tax system yes, but compared to the current system we have know anything would be better.
Big_Willie_Styles said:
No, a majority of Republicans have been pushing tax reform for decades. It's the Democrats who've been recalcitrant. They like the tax code being complex and impossible for anybody to understand. It allows carve outs for their preferred industries whilst they get to rail against the carve outs for industries they don't favor. Never underestimate the power of demagoging when it comes to liberals. They're only good at one thing: Winning elections.
The pair of you need to understand that "loopholes" are not an inherent property of a progressive tax system. The extremely corporatist GOP wants a flat tax because such a system heavily favors big business and the very wealthy (and the rhetoric appeals to their simple-minded base). The slightly less extremely corporatist Democratic party favors keeping the current tax system because it to some degree obscures how heavily it favors big business and the very wealthy.

Our tax system is in principle (not execution) very good. The progressive rates mean the government can have adequate income for its needs without depriving those who cannot afford it and tax credits allow automatic adjustments based on the cost of living/doing business and provide the government a good means of incentivising beneficial behavior without unjust coercion.

A loophole is just a bad tax credit (or trade law, but that's not income tax related). Does anyone really consider claiming a dependent on your tax returns a loophole?

JoJo said:
Is this proposed amendment unconstitutional though? I'm no constitutional lawyer, I'm not even American, but I'm pretty the U.S. Constitution just prohibits the government from making laws that prohibit free speech. This on the other hand doesn't prohibit anyone from making any sort of game they want, it rather restricts tax credits to certain games. I don't see how lack of government support could reasonably be taken as actually infringing on a person's freedom of speech.
Promoting the free speech of nonviolent video games through tax credits can be seen as abridging the free speech of violent video games since this creates an inherently unfair marketplace of ideas.
 

Roxas1359

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Eldritch Warlord said:
A loophole is just a bad tax credit (or trade law, but that's not income tax related). Does anyone really consider claiming a dependent on your tax returns a loophole?
I don't count that as a loophole, what I mean by loophole is the tax credit one gets if the parts are manufactured in other countries, are shipped to the US, and then assembled on shores here so then it can technically claim to be "made in the US" when it wasn't (Sony did that a lot with TVs back in the day where I live), or most the shit Apple does because I remember when they went before a committee for tax evasion (all they got was a slap on the wrist). You are right though in that a large problem with the system is that the execution and enforcement is what the real problem can be a lot of the time.

As I stated earlier in this thread, the main problem I have with this is that the bill only labels "violent" video games as receiving the tax, when if they are going to do something like this shouldn't it be applied to the entire industry in general no matter if they make "violent" games or not?

Big_Willie_Styles said:
That's the "pox on both your houses" fallacy. They're the ones to blame, even if Republicans do it occasionally. Liberals don't want to do anything about it. Conservatives do.
And I can say Republicans don't wanna do anything while Democrats do when it comes to bills in the House and Senate as well, seeing as the Republicans control the House and the Democrats control the Senate, and we'd still be nowhere. You call it a fallacy, but the fact is that both parties in control rather fight each other than actually get things done. Now I can see that we're probably not going to agree on this so I'm just leaving it at that and leaving the thread, I've already said what I've wanted to say.
 

Jumwa

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I'm all aboard defending game creators and violent games against ridiculous claims like they promote acts of violence between people. However, a tax credit is a whole other matter. I could not care less if game makers lose tax credits, especially for making violent games.

Yes, by all means the government should incentivise educational and non-violent games. At the very least it might encourage some more variety in the games market, which is so over-saturated with lazy violent games that do the same exact gameplay because doing yet another game about blowing off heads is easy.
 

Roxas1359

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Gary Thompson said:
All politicians are self-serving ass wipes, party and ideology only change what lies they use.
Couldn't agree more with this sentiment. Really there are very few politicians nowadays who will actually try to change things nowadays unless their party agrees with it, and so moderate politics on both major sides has pretty much become a rarity. Washington has become more of an ideological battle than actually wanting to run the country to benefit the people. (although some argue that was never their purpose, I like to believe it was)