Watch_Dogs and rape -no spoilers-

[NuclearKangaroo]

This crusade of censorship is ridiculous. If you don't like it, don't play it. Just because you find something offensive doesn't mean that other people will. The ESRB rated the game appropriately, so just sit down and deal with it. People cannot be this soft-shelled nowadays, are they?

If something is offensive, Why should be not be allowed to call it out and criticize it? Why should we not talk about WHY it offends me? How it offends me? Why should I not be allowed to complain? It's stupid, and criticism will only make things better not worse.

except it all often boils down to the classic "your rights end where muh feelings begin"

*Text Equivalent of a Raspberry*

I'm not saying we start getting rid of rights, I'm saying I am using my rights to say that your shit sucks. Simple.

yeah but, does it truthly suck or are you just offended by it? because theres a difference

i think feminism when it comes to gaming is awfully misguided, instead of demonizing current portrayals of rape, women, etc. in games, shouldnt these feminists try to make their own games?

some people dont mind the portrayal of those topics in their games, hell some might even feel the quality of the game might be reduced if the devs try to pander to everybody

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

A few gifs of oddities and its now a bash against rape victims and HIV+ people with no mention of the first game I've ever seen an NPC serpentine while running away from a person with a gun... before they fire even.
Also its happened on a few occasions that blood donors were HIV+ and the screening process didn't catch it or otherwise screwed up, and there's absolutely no context to the whole "rape" thing other than a gif.

 

[hazabaza1]

You know the more likely result?

They made a few thousand different varieties of "traits" or "events" assigned to random civilians to make it seem more real and some funny combinations happened.

 

[Something Amyss]

Okay, so you have someone making dirty searches on his phone, a woman who may or may not have legit reasons to search for rape frequently, and a guy who looks like "Hollywood homeless" who is HIV positive and a blood donor.

I'm missing the problem here. These look more like social commentary to me than stuff I can't believe they're trying to get away with. Am I missing something very important in the text? Some of the words are a little blurry, but I didn't see the woman with anything that demonstrated that it was a fetish.

You fool. This is The Escapist and rape has been in a videogame. We must rage and boycott and condemn Ubisoft for dare mentioning such a thing!

Errr...I mean...Crap, I'm doing this all wrong.

OT: Is this the next big nontroversy then? You know, because we don't have enough of them in gaming these fucking days. I love how everyone got all hot and bothered because some tribal chick banged you in Far Cry 3 while you were tripping balls. But when one of your best friends has been sodomized and raped repeatably by some wackjob it only every gets a passing mention? Can we as gamers stop with all this bullshit?

The best way to stop it is to not talk about it. Your post is a perfect on-ramp to talk about it.

This crusade of censorship is ridiculous. If you don't like it, don't play it. Just because you find something offensive doesn't mean that other people will. The ESRB rated the game appropriately, so just sit down and deal with it. People cannot be this soft-shelled nowadays, are they?

By that same logic, shouldn't you "just sit down and deal with" the complaining? Why do you get to complain but not them?

except it all often boils down to the classic "your rights end where muh feelings begin"

In fairness, the US Constitution does guarantee us the right to not have our feelings hurt. And by us, I mean the internet, since the internet is the property of America.

 

[Olas]

I'm finding I have less and less patience for sensitivity when it comes to any given subject matter like rape or HIV. I think this video demonstrates why.


Sure lots of times people making these jokes or references are just being assholes, and I don't condone being an asshole per se, but the only way to really address what is or isn't rude or offensive is to look at everything on a case by case basis, not to simply draw a line at certain issues like rape or HIV, and I don't see anything particularly offensive in this case.

This crusade of censorship is ridiculous. If you don't like it, don't play it. Just because you find something offensive doesn't mean that other people will. The ESRB rated the game appropriately, so just sit down and deal with it. People cannot be this soft-shelled nowadays, are they?

If something is offensive, Why should be not be allowed to call it out and criticize it? Why should we not talk about WHY it offends me? How it offends me? Why should I not be allowed to complain? It's stupid, and criticism will only make things better not worse.

You're allowed to criticize it all you want, but if you want anyone to care about your criticism you need to have some reasoning behind it. And even if you do it doesn't take away the creator's right to create the content you find offensive.

 

[Something Amyss]

i think feminism when it comes to gaming is awfully misguided, instead of demonizing current portrayals of rape, women, etc. in games, shouldnt these feminists try to make their own games?

You mean ignoring the possibility they don't have the requisite skills, the part where publishers apparently don't like to look at games with female leads (as a rule), and the part where such games received markedly less marketing resources?

Where does that leave us, then? Indie games? No room in the big sandbox because we wouldn't want to pander [footnote]which is absurd, since we already pander heavily to the people complaining about pandering[/footnote] or cheapen the experience[footnote]for the people being pandered to, currently[/footnote]?

I really hope you haven't put any thought into this, because when faced with the reality of the games industry, "make your own games" sounds like an impractical method used to dismiss people.

 

[Irridium]

Okay, so you have someone making dirty searches on his phone, a woman who may or may not have legit reasons to search for rape frequently, and a guy who looks like "Hollywood homeless" who is HIV positive and a blood donor.

I'm missing the problem here. These look more like social commentary to me than stuff I can't believe they're trying to get away with. Am I missing something very important in the text? Some of the words are a little blurry, but I didn't see the woman with anything that demonstrated that it was a fetish.

And I don't get how someone being HIV positive is considered a joke. These kinds of people exist, you know. Only time I saw this being laughed at was during that E3 presentation. If that's what the OP's referring to, it's not really Ubisoft's fault that the crowd is immature.

And also, yeah, a women who's not conventionally attractive searching "rape" a lot must totally mean she wants it. Like, totally. How else would she get laid, amirite bro?!

 

[NuclearKangaroo]

i think feminism when it comes to gaming is awfully misguided, instead of demonizing current portrayals of rape, women, etc. in games, shouldnt these feminists try to make their own games?

You mean ignoring the possibility they don't have the requisite skills, the part where publishers apparently don't like to look at games with female leads (as a rule), and the part where such games received markedly less marketing resources?

Where does that leave us, then? Indie games? No room in the big sandbox because we wouldn't want to pander [footnote]which is absurd, since we already pander heavily to the people complaining about pandering[/footnote] or cheapen the experience[footnote]for the people being pandered to, currently[/footnote]?

I really hope you haven't put any thought into this, because when faced with the reality of the games industry, "make your own games" sounds like an impractical method used to dismiss people.

dont get me wrong, my problem is that they arent even trying, i dont think ive seen a very successful indie game that challenges the current portrayal of women in video games, except maybe transistor, and that one wasnt made by feminists

then you have the arguments of people like anita sarkeesian, high profile feminism and internet hate sponge, criticizing games like rogue legacy because they dare put a bow in female playable characters, completely ignoring the fact that game revels in its ridiculousness, i mean its almost like anita saskatchewan doesnt even play video g-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcPIu3sDkEw

oh

oh the whole dragon's crown debacle, with feminists eager to condemn the oversexualization of female characters in the game, while ignoring that many male charatcers in the game are like 90% pecs



many more things can be accomplished by actively trying to change things, than by merely complaining about the way things are

 

[MoreThanANoob]

I remember a while ago there was an article from Ubisoft saying that Watch_Dogs was intended to incorporate complex morality; i.e. the player will be met with events in the world, their responses to which will be "off the books", so to speak.

To me, this kind of thing just reinforces that notion. The player will react to people like this differently than if there were a "kill" or "spare" moral choice. It's the kind of thing that can add some hidden depth to the Aiden; beyond his reputation and beyond his actions in the story. And it's made possible by NPCs that have a bit more apparent depth than "Doesn't enjoy Dr Pepper as much as they say they do".

 

[Fyrana]

With all the leaks of watch dogs showing up now that people are able to play the game we now have images of some quite disturbing material.

I was quite disappointed after spotting the below images on an irc channel that I frequent. Unfortunately the people who were commenting on them were just laughing the whole issue off.

It would seem like ubisoft still hasn't gotten away from the disturbing rape and STD references that they were also criticized for when Far Cry 3 came out.

Just like in Far Cry 3 the Ubisoft team is handling these issues with little understanding of the topics and even less regard for actual victims of rape or STDs.

For example in the pictures and gifs below we see HIV being made into a joke by assigning the disease to a character who is a blood donor.

And even worse, rape is being handled by portraying it as a fetish for women who are larger and don't conform to the beauty standards we have today. The text messages related to the rape references are also disturbingly degrading.

Why can't we have a game that deals with these issues with at least some understanding and care? Why does this happen even after all the public outrage about similar cases in the past? Do these companies not have PR departments capable of thinking straight? Why do they want to drive away big parts of their potential customer base?

Is it just too much to ask not to have to see material like this in majority of the big budget titles these days? Would people actually miss this stuff if it was gone?

Oh no! Someone with HIV is a blood donor! Something like that could NEVER happen in the REAL WORLD! Oh man, someone has a rape fetish! And she isn't attractive! OH THE HUMANITY! (If you don't know: Rape is fetishized in the real world. People have that fetish. Hell most adults (and within that, the majority are more female) have had a rape fantasy at least once in their lifetimes. Look it up.)

This is supposed to be disturbing? I am sorry, I was kind of distracted by the game I was just playing where you play as a women who kills her sisters, basically enslaves their disciples just to fuck when she wants to, AND gains powers from bathing in the blood of her enemies. But wait, a randomized NPC has a rape fetish! This is by far the more disturbing of the two. (By the way, the NPCs are RANDOMIZED. So you can get someone who is a pedophile AND a kindergarten teacher.)

 

[EHKOS]

I like how the HIV Positive thing is information you can access, as well as perverted things being searched for. The things that set off red flags for me is that the HIV guy is a blood donor which isn't cool, and the woman who searches "rape" is a school teacher. Rape fantasy is fine if there are safe words and consent, but it implies that both of those things may have been thrown out the window and traded for the adjective "Statutory".

Then again, A)it's a game, thus not real. and B) You have a right to make gritty media.

Personally I don't much care one way or another, but if Ubi was smart, they would step back a bit. Especially since their graphics were greatly exaggerated to the point where there is a bigger shitstorm online about it than usual.

 

[guitarsniper]

This is supposed to be disturbing? I am sorry, I was kind of distracted by the game I was just playing where you play as a women who kills her sisters, basically enslaves their disciples just to fuck when she wants to, AND gains powers from bathing in the blood of her enemies. But wait, a randomized NPC has a rape fetish! This is by far the more disturbing of the two. (By the way, the NPCs are RANDOMIZED. So you can get someone who is a pedophile AND a kindergarten teacher.)

wait, what the hell game is that?

 

[Vareoth]

Hmm, doesn't seem to me like any of this is really meant as a joke. Though the HIV blood donor thing slightly annoys me. But that's only because I'm barred from donating blood simply because I'm gay.

That's hardly Ubisoft's fault though.

This is supposed to be disturbing? I am sorry, I was kind of distracted by the game I was just playing where you play as a women who kills her sisters, basically enslaves their disciples just to fuck when she wants to, AND gains powers from bathing in the blood of her enemies. But wait, a randomized NPC has a rape fetish! This is by far the more disturbing of the two. (By the way, the NPCs are RANDOMIZED. So you can get someone who is a pedophile AND a kindergarten teacher.)

wait, what the hell game is that?

Drakengard 3 I think. Haven't played it myself but from what I've seen it's quite weird. Nothing new for that series though.

 

[Callate]

No.

No one else gets to decide for a creator that they can't broach an issue like HIV or rape because they aren't "respectful" enough. The real world doesn't work like that, art that reflects the real world isn't required to fall under that standard either.

There are people who give blood who are HIV positive. There are women who have rape fantasies. Assuming that by placing them in the game the creators are making any broad assumptions about women, rape or rape fantasies, blood donors or HIV positive people, or their numbers in the general public, is projection.

Yes, even if it were true that this was occurring in "the majority of mass market games", which it isn't by a long shot, it is too much to ask to "not have to see this kind of stuff" in an M-rated title. By all means warn other people who are sensitive to such subjects off, but don't assume to call such shots for everyone else.

 

[Atmos Duality]

So Tumblr has finally become sentient, and its first stop is here? I'm not sure if we should feel honored or not.

There is no true honor on Tumblr; only a pale imitation.

 

[Eve Charm]

Hmm, doesn't seem to me like any of this is really meant as a joke. Though the HIV blood donor thing slightly annoys me. But that's only because I'm barred from donating blood simply because I'm gay.

That's hardly Ubisoft's fault though.

This is supposed to be disturbing? I am sorry, I was kind of distracted by the game I was just playing where you play as a women who kills her sisters, basically enslaves their disciples just to fuck when she wants to, AND gains powers from bathing in the blood of her enemies. But wait, a randomized NPC has a rape fetish! This is by far the more disturbing of the two. (By the way, the NPCs are RANDOMIZED. So you can get someone who is a pedophile AND a kindergarten teacher.)

wait, what the hell game is that?

Drakengard 3 I think. Haven't played it myself but from what I've seen it's quite weird. Nothing new for that series though.

Heh oh man am I loving drakengard 3 , if you got 3 minutes watch this from 11:30 on to see how bad Zero the main protagonist can be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5oqjVgV03Y This is after the 2nd boss battle.

 

[EternallyBored]

I like how the HIV Positive thing is information you can access, as well as perverted things being searched for. The things that set off red flags for me is that the HIV guy is a blood donor which isn't cool, and the woman who searches "rape" is a school teacher. Rape fantasy is fine if there are safe words and consent, but it implies that both of those things may have been thrown out the window and traded for the adjective "Statutory".

Then again, A)it's a game, thus not real. and B) You have a right to make gritty media.

Personally I don't much care one way or another, but if Ubi was smart, they would step back a bit. Especially since their graphics were greatly exaggerated to the point where there is a bigger shitstorm online about it than usual.

Eh, I don't think any of those combinations are intentional, from what I've seen in gameplay demos, the factoids and occupations are randomized, so sticking HIV positive and blood donor together was likely more just an unintentional combination of facts and occupations drawn from the games database, than any attempt from Ubisoft to make a crass joke.


OT: Yeah, I'm usually on the pro side for these kinds of threads, the one or two people on this forum that may actually remember me from those threads can vouch for that, but there really doesn't seem to be much to actually criticize here, I think the OP is just reading too far into Ubisoft's random info database set up for the game.

As for Farcry 3, they probably didn't listen to criticism because there honestly wasn't that much of it, I remember the controversy against them trivializing Jason's friends rape implications died down pretty fast. Most people were talking about the game's silly ending and making fun of the writer for trying to portray it as a lot deeper than most people though it was. As much as I hate trivializing other people's complaints, I doubt you're going to get much traction with this one, it just isn't really that problematic to most people, I seriously doubt this will develop into an actual controversy a la the Hitman trailer, outside of maybe a few angry posts online, I just don't see this one as really being that offensive to many people.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

oh the whole dragon's crown debacle, with feminists eager to condemn the oversexualization of female characters in the game, while ignoring that many male charatcers in the game are like 90% pecs

You have won me over with your logic. To convince the rest of those SJW White-knighting nay-sayers we should go out into public and show men this picture:

Spoiler

and women this picture:

Spoiler

Seriously, which video game character has more pec than this guy?

And see how many of each find the pandering directed to their gender sexy. To prove once and for all that those game developers are pandering just as much to their female audiences (Although I don't know why bother, they're all off playing Candy Crush)

Seriously though, however far and between, there are male video game characters designed to look sexy. They're just not the characters that are absolutely rippling with manly muscles. If anything (if these forums are anything to go by) those conform far more to what men think women find sexy than what women actually find sexy. It's completely male idealization all the way. It can make guys feel strong, and like an attractive womanizer without having them feel uncomfortable about identifying with the character.

 

[KingsGambit_v1legacy]

I've seen this first hand now and while I've been very vocal on this site about ubi's horrid mismanagement of this game and all the scandals, this isn't one. At all. Activating the "profiler" just let's the player 'scan' npcs under the reticle and it returns their name, a random fact, their occupation and income. Some can be "hacked"to listen in on their active calls, current text message exchange or retrieve their bank details to draw their money out of an atm.

The random fact is just that, random. It could be anything from"hiv positive" to "donates to right wing extremists", "related to a celebrity", "watches online porn", etc. The calls and texts can be funny, personal or start an investigation into a potential crime. They're intended as a reflection of a living, breathing city with myriad inhabitants from all walks of life.

In a cross section of a random hundred people in the real world, It's almost certain that one or more will have been sexually assaulted, carry an std, be a criminal and so on. The game makes no judgement, there's no social commentary, no respect or disrespect. This is a complete non issue. It's not part of the story and is only there to add a different dimension, namely that the player is a 1337 h4x0r who can access all this personal info.

Personally, if there's any message to be worried here, It's the big brother, personal data, hacker thing. The player is a criminal who accesses sensitive data about everyone, steals from their accounts, steals cars and shoots people. Aeden is an oddly dressed cyber terrorist and the op is offended by the acronym hiv.

 

[Rad Party God]

I'm surprised anyone's making any fuss about having fucked up NPCs on a game that's all about doing "justice" by your own hand.