We need another series like Tomb Raider

[Blood Brain Barrier]

That's why I said it doesn't exist "to me". I wasn't being literal, I was just saying that its existence is insignificant because I don't own a console. Just like a vibrator would be insignificant to you if you didn't own a vagina, since you can't use it for the purpose it was intended.

 

[DeadYorick]

Then how long is it going to take for people to growth a pair already?? How long do we have to lament that Citizen Kane didnt make money at the box office and admit much later it was indeed a good movie? How about John Carpenter's The Thing and Blade Runner that flopped because of bloody ET of all things and later we call them "the best horror movie and Sci Fi movie of all times"?? This is the Internet age at his peak and we STILL cant figure out a solution of this massive leap of logic that keep taking victims in form of artists?

Its the folly of humanity really. Leonardo Da Vinci died poor in his workshop and wasn't recognized as a genius that was ahead of his time until years after his death.

As long as gaming is a business that relies on the masses for consumption its likely never going to change. Gaming has always been about appealing to the lowest common denominator, it's just become less transparent with the internet gaining so much popularity in recent years.

That's why I said it doesn't exist "to me". I wasn't being literal, I was just saying that its existence is insignificant because I don't own a console. Just like a vibrator would be insignificant to you if you didn't own a vagina, since you can't use it for the purpose it was intended.

Implying a Vagina is a product that can be purchased at a store.

I admit that looks pretty nice (for all they are rendering a small cave) but the gameplay honestly looks like a whole lot of quick time events. Also rebar through her kidney? (looks like) yikes. A bit early but I am skeptical some what. The real charm of tomb raider was the exploration and the treasure for me. Not survival horror.

The series has to evolve somehow, after Legend streamlined the hell out of the concept and Underworld ruined it, it had to go in a different direction somehow.

For me the appeal of the games was always the level design. Going through ancient cities, navigating puzzle rooms trying to find a way to progress, finding traps and learning how to avoid them, etc.

 

[ResonanceGames]

Less solipsistic claptrap, more game recommendations.

Dark Corners of the Earth is another good explorey/adventurey game. Granted, a lot of sections are fairly linear, but it sill has that nice sense of discovery that the good ones have.

 

[BathorysGraveland]

My favourite Tomb Raider-style adventure game is still Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine. Sure it was clunky and the plot-line was really only an excuse for Indy to go to those places, but damn if it wasn't enjoyable. It is also one of my childhood favourites.

I do like the early Tomb Raider games though. The second one and the fourth one especially. Haven't played any of the series past the fourth however. Strangely enough, the second game was the only one I ever managed to complete. They sure were hard.

 

[DioWallachia]

The industry has always been derivative, did you ever live in the 90's and see how many FPS games were exactly like Doom? Or live in the 80's and see how many games were platformers that played like Mario? Games that broke out of that fold like Marathon, Legacy of Kain, etc did so out of survival because everything was becoming simpler and more streamlined. Hence why Marathon played like Doom but had secondary fire, and a complex story. Or why Legacy of Kain played similarly to A Link to the Past but was more intellectual and darker.

Movies like the Fast and Furious are popular because they are escapist, people want to have fantasies like driving really expensive cars.

Actually only the first game was a clear Zelda, even by having a dungeon for each item/power you find to teach you about it. The second game, Soul Reaver mixed Metroidvania + A Link to The Past dual world (but since this is a 3D platformed its totally a different story because it doesnt suck as games like Bubsy 3D) + It had PERFECT voice acting for a Playstation game (do i need to make a point about this when games like Resident Evil existed?) However, i do believe that SR did come up with 1 real innovation that is the trademark of the series regardless if you believe or not that this game made it popular, and that is: "Subtle Body Language during IN GAME ENGINE Cutscene"

Up to that point in gaming most characters either have the Starcraft portrait loop style of body language where they endlessly repeat the same expresion over and over to pretend that they are actually talking or in other games they repeat the same body animation like pointing at someone several times over the conversation (like in Lionhead's Black & White). In all games (minus BO1 and BO2) Every cutscene is treated by an amazing attention of detail worthy of being a Staley Kubrick or an Orson Welles movie (except maybe not so much in SR1), every expression was unique for each particular piece of cutscene and sucked you in the world

That characteristic is what made Soul Reaver 2 even MORE powerful to the point that by the time Blood Omen 2 came out it felt like a downgrade for being a cheap cash in. When SR2 came out that was its best innovation (besides good puzzle) but just like in the film industry and specially the Star Wars prequels that forgot all the years of experience in the language of cinema by doing "shot reverse shot" dialog, the game industry just plain forgot every bit done by LoK to the point i am just shock by seeing games like Deus Ex Human Revolution (2011) that still fuck up the normal dialog scenes by doing the eternal loop thing for almost EVERY character.

Seriously, if this were Spoony's Show, he most likely would start a counting gag at 5:33


Dat animation was like times 3 and if it wasnt for the right hand gesture at the high of the neck it would have keep going.

 

[DeadYorick]

*snip*

I think you missed my point. I was talking more about marketing and not the technical advancements the games made. (I personally was more impressed by Soul Reaver's lack of loading screens then I was by it's cutscenes). Soul Reaver itself was marketed in the same magazines as games like Tomb Raider were, and it ran on a similar engine (so much so reviewers believed a 3D puzzle game by Eidos would play identically to Tomb Raider). It even featured a similar type of puzzle (blocks, oh the reliance on block puzzles that game had. Especially in the Silenced Cathedral)

 

[Vrach]

Meh, if it's not for PC it doesn't exist IMO.

Nice to see we're dealing with an intelligent person here.

It's not intelligent to refuse to purchase a piece of expensive corporate equipment as a prerequisite to playing a computer game?

I think it is.

That's because you're a moron.
You complain about there not being a type of game like the one you described, yet there is a an excellent trilogy exactly like that and you refuse to acknowledge it because you're a PC elitist.

If I told you about a book that was really good and I think you would like, and then told you "oh, but you need to buy the E-ReaderMaster 5000(tm) to read it", would you condemn me for accusing you of being a "paper-book elitist" if you refused?

I think so - and it would be totally justified.

You don't need an unrealistic example, here's a realistic one:
If there was a book that was only available on the Kindle, would you buy it?

The man's right, we need some games like TR on the PC. If you wanna argue a (good) port of Uncharted could be just that, fine, but don't assume we're elitists just because we don't own a console, some people prefer a PC and maintaining a new PC doesn't leave a lot of leftover income for a console as well next to it.

 

[The Madman]

Tomb Raider always seems to get a bad wrap on forums and from the gaming community as well as the public in general. Lara Croft might have been the series icon, but it was about much more than just her. In terms of level design, puzzles, and platforming the first few Tomb Raider games were amazing.

To this day the 'Greek' section of the original Tomb Raider (Redone in Anniversary as well!) stands are some of the best level design in gaming history. Amazingly well done and a ton of fun to explore and figure out. It's a pity that elements of the game as solid as that tend to be overshadowed by people yelling 'LOL MORE LIKE BOOB RAIDER AMIRITE!'.

Ah well. I do really highly recommend Anniversary edition by the way to anyone who enjoys those sorts of elements mentioned above. It's a fantastic experience and yes, I would love another series to come along and do the same.

Uncharted has a similar sort of vibe but is also much more narrative driven than the old Tomb Raider games. In Uncharted you follow a specific path from objective to objective. In the original Tomb Raider games at least you were allowed to explore and wander, figure things out at your own pace.

 

[Jazoni89]

My favourite Tomb Raider-style adventure game is still Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine. Sure it was clunky and the plot-line was really only an excuse for Indy to go to those places, but damn if it wasn't enjoyable. It is also one of my childhood favourites.

I do like the early Tomb Raider games though. The second one and the fourth one especially. Haven't played any of the series past the fourth however. Strangely enough, the second game was the only one I ever managed to complete. They sure were hard.

No kidding, the third one was holy shit hard, I only ever got to the second level on that one.

Yeah, after the forth one, it did went down shit creek without a paddle. While I think the fifth one is okay, the level design is pure and utter cack.

Underworld, and all the rest of the modern raiders are absolutely dire, especially Angel of Darkness, god damn was that game shite.

The second one is my favourite, being ten years old and locking the butler in the fridge for the first time was one of my treasured gaming memories.

 

[Owyn_Merrilin]

ITT: Way too many people who have never played a Tomb Raider game. That series, at least the original games from Core Design, stood quite well on the gameplay. The sex appeal may have helped with the initial sale (especially in the adolescent male market), but as The Madman pointed out, it was the excellent exploration based gameplay that really got people to stick around, not to mention buy more than one of them. I'd love to play a new Tomb Raider like game without needing to buy a PS3; the original Assassin's Creed had something similar in the Parkour elements, but that's all it really had in common. Then again, Tomb Raider was always kind of unique; aside from Pitfall, which would qualify as a de-make of the series if it came out today, I'm really drawing a blank here.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

Meh, if it's not for PC it doesn't exist IMO.

Nice to see we're dealing with an intelligent person here.

It's not intelligent to refuse to purchase a piece of expensive corporate equipment as a prerequisite to playing a computer game?

Of course it isn't intelligent. Don't want to buy a PS3? Fine. Buy a PS2 and "Sands of Time". That should do it. Get over it. Every game I've played is better on game consoles than the PC. The controls are far more responsive and easier to grasp. I want to make my character jump without having to memorize a flow chart.

I'd agree except for anything that's an FPS, RTS or similar PC specific genres. Playing a racing game on M&KB = hard. Playing an FPS on gamepad = inaccurate, unresponsive awfulness.

My favourite Tomb Raider-style adventure game is still Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine. Sure it was clunky and the plot-line was really only an excuse for Indy to go to those places, but damn if it wasn't enjoyable. It is also one of my childhood favourites.

I do like the early Tomb Raider games though. The second one and the fourth one especially. Haven't played any of the series past the fourth however. Strangely enough, the second game was the only one I ever managed to complete. They sure were hard.

No kidding, the third one was holy shit hard, I only ever got to the second level on that one.

Yeah, after the forth one, it did went down shit creek without a paddle. While I think the fifth one is okay, the level design is pure and utter cack.

Underworld, and all the rest of the modern raiders are absolutely dire, especially Angel of Darkness, god damn was that game shite.

The second one is my favourite, being ten years old and locking the butler in the fridge for the first time was one of my treasured gaming memories.

Angel of Darkness was literally one of the worst games I've ever played. And no, I didn't mean figuratively there.

 

[Jazoni89]

ITT: Way too many people who have never played a Tomb Raider game. That series, at least the original games from Core Design, stood quite well on the gameplay. The sex appeal may have helped with the initial sale (especially in the adolescent male market), but as The Madman pointed out, it was the excellent exploration based gameplay that really got people to stick around, not to mention buy more than one of them. I'd love to play a new Tomb Raider like game without needing to buy a PS3; the original Assassin's Creed had something similar in the Parkour elements, but that's all it really had in common. Then again, Tomb Raider was always kind of unique; aside from Pitfall, which would qualify as a de-make of the series if it came out today, I'm really drawing a blank here.

I agree...

No game sells under T&A alone (unless the name of the game is DOA extreme beach volleyball, or BMX XXX) so calling Tomb Raider a T&A game, destroys what is considered to be a classic by many people.

I think people have been listening to a certain Ben Yahtzee Croshaw too much, rather than make an opinion for themselves. That's my hypotheses about it anyway.

 

[The Madman]

Okay, I overacted and generalized. Not all PC games are un-responsive, but good controls are the price of being a PC exclusive gamer. Game consoles are designed to play games, so the gear is made perfectly for the job. PC controllers are okay, but they bug up to much.

Bug up too much? What do you mean?

I've had a number of gamepad for my computer over the years, never really had any trouble with any of them. With some of the older or more obscure brands you might need to download and install a free driver, but that's about it. With the 360 controller you don't even need that in most cases as Windows has built in support for it.

Otherwise they play the exact same as their console counterparts.

 

[saluraropicrusa]

I've read some of the posts in this thread in regards to the games market and being unoriginal/derivative, and I'd just like to point out that it's probably less a fear of change and more an unwillingness to risk investing in something that you might not like. Games are expensive, especially when they first come out, and no one wants to spend $60+ on something they're not going to enjoy. It's not easy making a new, completely original IP and getting people excited about it. It's a big risk for both the developers and the consumers, because of how much money is being invested on both sides. We're never going to escape the occasional bad purchase, but if we already know what we like and we know that a specific game/series has or will deliver, then that's what we're going to spend our money on.

 

[El Dwarfio]

Meh, if it's not for PC it doesn't exist IMO.

Nice to see we're dealing with an intelligent person here.

In his defence, if he only has a PC what good is a non-pc title to him?

And as someone has already said, ironic much? Nice to see you try (and fail) to justify yourself though.

And tbf Uncharted was pretty shit, nice graphics, but that's about it.

 

[Hobonicus]

OP, have you tried the Guardian of Light game? It's not like traditional Tomb Raider, but if you've got a friend to play co-op it can be really fun. There's plenty of exploration and clever puzzles to solve. I never tried it without a partner but I imagine it's still the same basic experience.

And this is somewhat random but I thought Cave Story had a nice feeling of exploration. And someone already mentioned Assassin's Creed, which I agree with.

My account is proof that I exist, my posts are proof that I exist.
Not to mention, we were not originally discussing whether or not you think a certain game exists to you. You did not say "it does not exist to me" you said "if it isn't on PC it does not exist"

You knew what he meant. We all know that you knew what he meant. And if you truly didn't then take back the sarcastic dig about him being an intelligent person. His argument was a bit antagonistic but your continued argument is the same thing children do when they think repeating something literally makes it true. Or at least, you know, try and contribute to the topic.

 

[Redryhno]

Meh, if it's not for PC it doesn't exist IMO.

Nice to see we're dealing with an intelligent person here.

It's not intelligent to refuse to purchase a piece of expensive corporate equipment as a prerequisite to playing a computer game?

I think it is.

You kinda've just shot yourself in the foot with that one. You pay for an expensive piece of corporate equipment either way.Actually even more so with a pc, seeing as how you get programs put on there you don't want with pretty much any game you buy these days.I'd like to clarify that I'm not trying to start a flame war with this, just trying to point something out.

OT: I never found Tomb Raider that great, I played the first two or three games, but never was able to get into it, the puzzles were always really simple, the stealth basic and unwieldy and shooting guys in the crotch can only keep you entertained for so long. Now if some dev came out with something that required you to put alot of effort into figuring out the puzzles, then maybe I'd look into it.