Weapons in F/TPS, Quantity or Quality?

[WanderingFool]

This was a topic of another thread on another site I visit on occasion (the amount of bullshit that goes on there makes a lot of the problems here quite pitiful in comparison), But the OP of the thread asked why there were so few weapons in these games, his specific example was MW2, in that there was only 8 or 9 assault rifles when there is so many more in real life. The basic gist was that he wanted A Lot more guns, and felt that it wouldnt be hard for developers to do, and that they should do that.

Needless to say, everyone berated him for multiple reasons, from him not understanding just how much effort goes into making just one gun in MW2, to the fact that the more guns you add, the more likely most will be the same, save for a different skin? some also just said Borderlands.

But what Im asking here is your thoughts on the matter:
-Do you want more, but less detailed, guns to choose from?
-Do you want fewer, but more detailed and unique, guns?
-Or do you want something else?

I personally dont see the need for having 30 assault rifles when there are about 6 different guns, and the rest are just recycled stats from those guns. And when its more likely people will find a particular gun they like and will just stick with it, rather than use the other 30 guns.

What I would like to see though is more what Borderlands and Blacklight: Tango Down did. For Borderlands, they just made a number of parts for the each type of gun, and created a random generater engine to put those part together and create several million guns (in theory, I seem to find only about hundred different ones.) In Blacklight, they had only five guns, but had hundreds of different parts for each of those guns, so instead of making several dozen guns, they just made up parts, and let the player build the gun the way they wanted it to perform.

So, your thoughts?

 

[tomtom94]

Fewer, but more detailed and unique. What's the point of having millions of weapons when A) you can only choose a certain number and B) they all look the same?

Timesplitters was a great example: all the weapons were just different and unique enough to make every one different and to have good reasons for choosing all of them.
(Always pick the crossbow. Always.)

 

[suhlEap]

i think the bad company 2 multiplayer has exactly the right amount of guns. there enough to keep it varied, but not so many that it's hard to choose.

 

[Medic Heavy]

Great question really got me thinking.

Hmm. A little bit of both I guess. I mean of course I want a massive arsenal of detailed weapons to choose from, but we have to be realistic. Unfortunately.

So I?d have to go for a small arsenal of really detailed weapons that all have a different feel. I think TF2 and the Halo series (I know I?ll regret saying halo later...) would be good examples. There certainly aren?t as many guns in Modern Warfare 2 then there is TF2 but I?d get tired much faster of the P90 then the soldiers rocket launcher. But maybe that?s just me.

Also a really big arsenal almost always has only about just 5 to 3 different feels of guns. I.e. pistol, shotgun, machinegun and they all just get upgraded as you progress your way through the game. They also never really feel all that different besides just being more powerful or have bigger ammo clip or just shooting faster.

 

[masseyguy911]

i think the bad company 2 multiplayer has exactly the right amount of guns. there enough to keep it varied, but not so many that it's hard to choose.

I agree, BFBC2 had just the right amount of guns, in my opinion.
Still, I prefer quality of quantity, whats the point of having loads of guns if none of them are that great, and you end up using only a few anyway? Seems like a waste to me.

 

[zehydra]

I personally like two weapons sets very much:
The Perfect Dark weapon set
The Battlefield Bad Company 2 weapons system (leveling up unlocks new guns, but retains balance)

 

[obliviondoll]

If you have to choose quality or quantity, I go quality every time.

It would theoretically be possible to make a game with a ridiculous number of accurately represented guns, but the majority of guns included by doing so are going to effectively be so close to identical handling that it doesn't matter.

And most games grab hold of the big name well-known weapons that everyone recognises, and stick to them.

I'm still yet to play a game where you can use buckshot rounds in a cut-down M-79, but that's because, while cool, it would be the impossible to balance and still do the weapon justice. At 10 metres range, you have a spread with 20m radius, and it fires enough pellets per shot to still be almost-guaranteed death at that distance. To model that accurately in-game, you could literally set a 90 degree cone around the gun barrel and everyone in it dies.

Give it to the rear-guard, and when ambushed, one pull of the trigger takes half the attackers down. That was the plan, anyway. Rear guard's the most common first target in an ambush though, so it basically just made the ambushers more careful on their risk/reward assessments.

 

[Sebenko]

Well, I'm not too bothered as long as they feel varied.

See Crysis- Scar, Ak, Pistol, Shotgun, Sniper rifle, rocket launcher are all you get for most of the game, but they feel varied because of the customisation.

Later on you get the railgun and alien gun. Oh, and the nuke launcher at the end. But that's more a plot coupon than a weapon, since you can only use it on the boss and when it's locked on.

 

[SonicWaffle]

Timesplitters was a great example: all the weapons were just different and unique enough to make every one different and to have good reasons for choosing all of them.
(Always pick the crossbow. Always.)

Isn't that something of a contradiction?

OT: I like a different variety of weapon classes. I'd rather have three pistols, three rifles and three grendades than nine different pistols. I think Fallout 3 handled this very well - I had certain weapons that I used more than other (combat shotguns and chinese assault rifles), but for different situations I'd whip out a sniper or a flamer. Plus, the ability to create new weapons out of junk was brilliant.

 

[Hateren47]

I prefer the choice between 2 rifles that behave differently (low ammo, high precision vs. high ammo, spray-and-pray] over 10 rifles that behave the same. You can't really have too few weapons, as long as all weapon classes are represented of course, but you can definitely have too many.

 

[Phoenixmgs_v1legacy]

Quality

I really don't care how many guns there are just as long as everything is represented: ARs, Sniper Rifles, Pistols, Shotguns, SMGs, and LMGs. And, of course, make sure everything is balanced.

 

[TheEndlessSleep]

In all honesty, I don't think it matters how many guns there are because generally most people end up using one gun all the time anyway, or mabye 2.

I know I am a real fan of the Barett 50. Cal, and the Intervention is the favorite of many other snipers.... I don't think they really need more than that... and indeed they shouldn't have because the WA2000 is crap and anybody using the M21 might as well use an assault rifle if they don't like shooting with one hit kills.

 

[TBR]

I'm going for Quality, even if it's just one load-out vs a ton.

Personally I'd rather have the Bullseye2 and Revolver from Resistance 2 than every weapon from Halo because those 2 are infinitely more interesting. Not to wind up the fanboys or anything, but it's quite possible, and I believe reasonable, to expect even one weapon (or at least one weapon at a time) to carry an entire game.

Portal managed 4 hours and a sequel with just the portal gun, and you didn't even get the thing straight away. Even them you had to find it in bits. Half Life 2 managed with the grav gun (always), and one weapon per level (mostly the paff paff pistol). They could have cut out the combine rifle, the revolver, and maybe the 'shotty' OR crossbow and it'd still have worked wonderfully. Splinter cell didn't need anything other than the silenced pistol and night vision.

I think developers who try to 'brute force' the weapons in their game or just use generic ones in a fantasy or sci-fi world are wasting a massive opportunity.

 

[Sephychu]

100% customizable guns. /drool

I have a gun fetish and too few games let you mess around with your rifles.

Metal Gear Solid 4 had a little bit. CoD: MW has some.

The customisation interface on MGS4 was way better than in MW2 though. Frontmounting and scoping and stuff just looked better.
Crysis has the best one though.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

100% customizable guns. /drool

I have a gun fetish and too few games let you mess around with your rifles.

Metal Gear Solid 4 had a little bit. CoD: MW has some.

That really. Because all you need is a few guns and a really good customization system, and there's hours of fun.

 

[Sephychu]

100% customizable guns. /drool

I have a gun fetish and too few games let you mess around with your rifles.

Metal Gear Solid 4 had a little bit. CoD: MW has some.

The customisation interface on MGS4 was way better than in MW2 though. Frontmounting and scoping and stuff just looked better.
Crysis has the best one though.

The stuff in Crysis (LOVE that game) wasn't anywhere near deep enough, though.

I'm playing S.T.A.L.K.E.R SoC at the moment - if that game had more gun tech, it'd be the best game ever.

Must not be far enough through it then. The gun tech certainly gets better. The interface isn't as nice, but it's at a similar level to Crysis. Are you running the overhaul mod?

 

[Sephychu]

100% customizable guns. /drool

I have a gun fetish and too few games let you mess around with your rifles.

Metal Gear Solid 4 had a little bit. CoD: MW has some.

The customisation interface on MGS4 was way better than in MW2 though. Frontmounting and scoping and stuff just looked better.
Crysis has the best one though.

The stuff in Crysis (LOVE that game) wasn't anywhere near deep enough, though.

I'm playing S.T.A.L.K.E.R SoC at the moment - if that game had more gun tech, it'd be the best game ever.

Must not be far enough through it then. The gun tech certainly gets better. The interface isn't as nice, but it's at a similar level to Crysis. Are you running the overhaul mod?

I'm not actually running any mods. I'm not too far in, but I've done LOADS of exploring and the like. I'm a complementationist: I must see every rock.

I've just about finished the second bar, I think?

Oh, maybe you can help me! I did a few arena matches (until it said I didn't have enough experience - just after the match with the five criminals) and since then, there are two NPC's in that town/complex thing that shoot me. No idea why. Very annoying.

Seriously, get the STALKER 2010 complete overhaul mod running ASAP. The two NPCs shooting you is probably some kind of alignment conflict bug. STALKER complete doesn't fix all of them, but it fixes a hell of a lot. Also, the game looks a damned sight nicer too. If you can't shoot them without everybody else retaliating, something's gone wrong.

 

[AnAngryMoose]

Fewer, but more detailed and unique. What's the point of having millions of weapons when A) you can only choose a certain number and B) they all look the same?

Timesplitters was a great example: all the weapons were just different and unique enough to make every one different and to have good reasons for choosing all of them.
(Always pick the crossbow. Always.)

Who needs a crossbow when you can have a Flare Gun (x2)?

 

[Cartman2nd]

I'd like more unique and detailed guns, like Painkillers shurikens + lightning.

 

[obliviondoll]

Another comment supporting gun customisation.

Even Deus Ex had decent gun customisation. Not the most in-depth, but it worked.