Webcomic Review: Girl Genius

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vultureX21

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It's been a bad day so far. I always bring my car in for a minor repair to discover something else needs fixing as well and lose my shirt in the process. It has nothing to do with the mechanics, all of whom my parents and I have known most of our lives, it's just the nature of owning a Volvo. Expensive to fix, built like a tank. A trendy, yuppie tank, but still...

Anyhow I digress. I was trying to take a nap before writing this review so I would be more coherent, but the news on my car got me too flustered to relax. If this review is below par then I apologize and if there's a strong enough outcry I'll redo it. For now consider this the definitive review.

Girl Genius is by Phil and Kaja Foglio and originally was a periodical comic book and is now online. This review is being done at the request of Escapist member McClaud who made me feel bad every time I had something negative to say about the comic when he told me he was a "distant friend of the Foglios." Fortunately for him I didn't find a lot to gripe about.

Before divulging too much information let me just say this is one of those comics that isn't for everyone. I read Inverloch before Girl Genius and, for those who didn't read the Inverloch review, I didn't like the former very much. Soldiering onward I hoped Girl Genius would appeal to me more. Still, at the beginning of Girl Genius my reaction was something like a roll of the eyes and a muttering of "is this some kind of steampunk Harry Potter?"

The answer? Well, yes and no. It is definitely steampunk, a sub-genre of science fiction that I have developed a true affection for thanks largely to Bioshock (aside: even if the gameplay of Bioshock doesn't grab you the storytelling is fantastic, I mean really great, it's so sadistic and sinuous in its nature I just was enthralled by it). This is a much lighter (mostly) tale set in an alternate/similar universe to our own. The one word that leaps out at me when I think of Girl Genius is originality.

Originality is something very difficult to effectively execute in any medium of storytelling. It isn't necessarily a bad thing to have archetypal characters and events in a story if the story does little things differently or has compelling enough aspects to make you enjoy it. When you begin to see the success of the archetypal work copied almost to the cut and paste degree of the Terry Brooks Shannara series, well, that's when you're retreading something too much and running out of good presentation. Brooks sets up a compelling fantasy universe, quite similar to, but not mirroring, Tolkien's and creates a truly iconic figure in the Druid Allanon to keep much of the reader's interest. Except he then recycles the same exact plot for every book after the first two. I mean this quite literally, the plot is EXACTLY THE SAME. It is sort of like reading Redwall by Brian Jacques and then moving on to other novels in the series only to discover his plots are simply rehashes of the first, but at least he has the decency to surprise by dramatically killing some of the more exciting characters in heroic fashion.

My point is that you can be successful keeping with a formulaic approach that mirrors another work you admire/want to blatantly rip off, but you won't really shake the foundations of the world by doing it. That being said, some Tolkien-esque works are as good stand alone with enough originality thrown in (and dear God I hope my own books someday fit that category) and if that originality is just different enough you can tell a very good story worth reading, like the first Dragonlance Trilogy.

So if what I am saying is that retreading certain archetypes and tropes threatens to create a cycle of retelling and eventually dry the well of its few original ideas then why do so many people write those books/comics? Well, because it is safer than trying to do something dramatically different and new. Take my impressions of Inverloch, which definitely was unlike most fantasy stories I have read. I didn't like it, even though I recognized the uniqueness of some of its parts, overall it didn't "do it" for me. This is the risk you run with trying to do something different, it is the same reason Hollywood releases sequels that should never be made, like the ridiculous Crank sequel out now. Why did they even make the first one? Garbage premise, garbage action-for-action's-sake junk. But it sold, so let's rehash it and find an excuse to do it again.

But thankfully there are people out there who do try to do something different now and again and they get noticed. Take the aforementioned Harry Potter series. Now, I liked the first three to four (I forget at which point I began to dislike the direction of the series) novels because it was original and different and, even better, it got kids to read again. Don't mistake the importance of children reading, no matter what Harold Bloom says, it was a worthwhile venture. But, as most probably know, it took J.K. Rowling an enormous amount of time and effort to get the first book published (and yet new Danielle Steele novels come out weekly it seems, the world is a stupid place) and it was mostly due to the fact it wasn't a "safe" seller. Too much that was different or unpopular at the time, it just didn't scream "cash cow" to anyone. Sure does now though.

And that, after much exposition, is the crux of the issue. If the new and daring work that at least tries to do something significantly different succeeds it almost always succeeds overwhelmingly. True, it might still be absolute malarkey like Twilight, but if it makes it then it really makes it. This is what happened with Girl Genius.

Backtracking to my initial comment you can understand I wasn't wild about it when I first started reading it. Obviously that changed if I just spent paragraphs explaining the impact of well thought out originality and attributed it to this comic. Let me just qualify that statement by saying it is far from perfect and I am going to point out some serious issues I have with it, but overall I like it. It does something new and interesting and it has enough good characters and some very nice, emotive artwork to convey the story.

So down to brass tacks. The conceptual design involves a world that is Earth, but Earth where technology is heavily reliant on the creation and use of "clanks" (large, robotic contraptions theoretically propelled by steam or something like it) that make up the backbone of armies, work staff and... well mostly armies. See, Baron Klaus Wulfenbach amassed a great army of clanks to defeat a strange and deadly enemy known only as The Other and in doing so conquered much of Europe and holds dominion over his lands from his floating castle (a giant blimp) with an iron fist. He descends on one of his holdings with his son Gilgamesh to investigate and meets an incompetent student of clank creation, Agatha, during a tense encounter with her master. The master ends up dead and Agatha is sent home. It turns out Agatha is a powerful Spark (one who can create incredibly complex clanks and other machines) and she is captured and taken to Castle Wulfenbach where the inevitable love interest with Gilgamesh arises.



To divulge anything further would really be giving a lot away. To sum up some of the better points: clearly Klaus is of German ancestry and he employs Jagermonsters, humanoid warriors who love to fight, but despite their fearful appearance are not necessarily brutes. They rapidly became one of my favorite unique features of the comic. Also, there is a nice evolution of Agatha's clank skills and their purpose which drives the story and leads to her encountering truly memorable characters along the way. By far Klaus, Gilgamesh, Agatha, and the Jagers represent the best characters in the story, but there are almost innumerable minor ones that join and then depart only to reappear later. Some are quite intriguing, well, most are really, but this brings us to my main criticism.

There are just too many characters and too many minor, intertwining plots in this story. I suspect the Foglio's have some massive, room-sized flowchart somewhere in their work station that shows how all the players and plots eventually come together sensibly and conclusively, but there's no way even they could make sense of it! Truly the plot is dense, complex, and thoroughly compelling. There was one dramatic point in the story where I couldn't tell what the hell was happening, why, or what the aftermath was all about, but I forged ahead gamely because the bright spots outshine the missteps just enough to keep me going. I'm sure a dedicated reader could make sense of it all given enough time and effort, but really that's not what I want to be doing or I would just try making sense of Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series (may he rest in peace).

The fact is as much as the complexity and overabundance of characters bothers me I can't find any real plot holes (at least no major ones) that can't be explained by going back through the archives to discover the solution. It might not be an obvious one and sometimes I felt dumb because I could not remember the significance of Minor Character #547, but none of ever seemed to fall flat. Sure, the weave is intricate, but at least it all seems to fit together correctly and that is satisfying to a degree.

I don't want my problems with the characters and plot to deter anyone from at least trying Girl Genius because when you push through the complexity with an eye towards only the most basic questions (who is Agatha really and what is her role in this world?) and relationships (will Agatha and Gil finally get together?) you're left with a pretty enjoyable piece. Add in the fact that Baron Wulfenbach is one of the best "is he a bad guy or not" characters and you have enough to keep you slugging it out with the nefarious attempts of the creators to derail themselves with too many happenings. Stick to the core of the comic and I think there is something really good tucked away there.

As for the appearance, this is one of the nicer looking comics around. The first several comics are black and white, which is okay, but the coloring of the rest of the comic is extremely impressive. It definitely shows hints of eastern influence, especially in emotional facial expression, which is exaggerated, but maintains a distinct look all its own. The meshing of art styles is subtle, and I think that is the best way to describe it. You are going to look at it and be reminded, either all at once or in bits and pieces, of other art styles or fantasy works. The fact that all of these blend together creates that unique feel I was raving about before. This is a very original piece and a well done one. I consider it a rarity and one everybody should at least dip their feet into. If you choose to go swimming in it after that just remember, I warned you the deep end was really deep.

You can find Girl Genius at http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20021104 at least if you want to start from the beginning (you do). Now, I am going to sit back and watch the voting for the next review while pondering if robbing my local convenience store would cover my car repairs.

Note - Phil and Kaja refer to their work as "gaslamp fantasy" a term I have never heard of and which means I am probably incorrect in referring to their work as "steampunk with fantasy elements."
 

AkJay

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very well written review, never read this ocmic myself, can you do XKCD.com next?!
 

vultureX21

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AkJay said:
very well written review, never read this ocmic myself, can you do XKCD.com next?!
Make the request at the request thread, that one has two hits so far so I think I could stick it in!
 

Smokescreen

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First, you spend WAY too much time going on about things that aren't related to the comic. No less than 5 paragraphs are spent talking about your thoughts on originality instead of what you think of the comic, and at the end it only barely relates to the comic itself or your thoughts on it.

Two; you have a pretty massive conflict here. You say: "There are just too many characters and too many minor, intertwining plots in this story."

Then you say: "The fact is as much as the complexity and overabundance of characters bothers me I can't find any real plot holes (at least no major ones) that can't be explained by going back through the archives to discover the solution."

So what I read that is as: I was not paying enough attention to the story that when they brought subplots to the forefront I was confused and couldn't figure out what was going on.

Is that YOUR fault, or is that the fault of the AUTHORS? Given that I also read the comic and have yet to be confused, I'm inclined to think it's you, but you don't provide any evidence one way or another to sustain your point. In the era of tv shows like Deadwood, Battlestar Galactica, The Wire, not to mention comic books from Green Lantern/GL Corps, the Annihilus series from Marvel (And the galactic tales in general for the past 2+ years) and so on, having epic tales with subplots galore is becoming par for the course, so this complaint (and you spend a great deal of time on it) really rings hollow because you yourself say you cannot support it.

Sorry, but I think it needs editing and evidence.
 

vultureX21

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Smokescreen said:
First, you spend WAY too much time going on about things that aren't related to the comic. No less than 5 paragraphs are spent talking about your thoughts on originality instead of what you think of the comic, and at the end it only barely relates to the comic itself or your thoughts on it.

Two; you have a pretty massive conflict here. You say: "There are just too many characters and too many minor, intertwining plots in this story."

Then you say: "The fact is as much as the complexity and overabundance of characters bothers me I can't find any real plot holes (at least no major ones) that can't be explained by going back through the archives to discover the solution."

So what I read that is as: I was not paying enough attention to the story that when they brought subplots to the forefront I was confused and couldn't figure out what was going on.

Is that YOUR fault, or is that the fault of the AUTHORS? Given that I also read the comic and have yet to be confused, I'm inclined to think it's you, but you don't provide any evidence one way or another to sustain your point. In the era of tv shows like Deadwood, Battlestar Galactica, The Wire, not to mention comic books from Green Lantern/GL Corps, the Annihilus series from Marvel (And the galactic tales in general for the past 2+ years) and so on, having epic tales with subplots galore is becoming par for the course, so this complaint (and you spend a great deal of time on it) really rings hollow because you yourself say you cannot support it.

Sorry, but I think it needs editing and evidence.
The introduction on originality seemed relevant given the past review of Inverloch and this one since they both really break the mold of more formulaic works. It also explains why Inverloch is a work I consider inferior to Girl Genius despite both being very creative. I expected some wouldn't like this lengthy prelude and I appreciate the response to that part of the review.

As to the rest of your comments, a few things.

One, I'm not going to present a ton of evidence to support my opinion when that evidence can give away too much to the uninitiated reader. I'm writing these reviews to inform people who haven't read the comic whether they might be interested in checking it out. I realize I can put a spoiler macro in there, but there's a temptation, even for those who might want to read the comic for the first time, to click the spoiler box and ruin something they could read on their own. I did it before in a previous review and I didn't like it. The fact is, there are huge gaps between characters being introduced and then reappearing and taking a prominent role (think Gil's assistant or the students from Castle Wulfenbach) who get mixed in with new characters that appear and are suddenly just as important as ones we've been following for whole chapters. There are a LOT of minor characters and the Foglios can't focus on all of them at once, making it reasonable to lose track of who is who and what their significance is.

Second, it isn't a conflict. Conflict implies that the two statements stand in opposition to one another, which your examples do not. I said that there are too many characters and minor plots, then said that even though the number of characters bothers me, the plots don't seem to have any significant holes when I went back and refreshed my memory on the events prior. Thus, there are too many minor characters and plots (in my personal opinion) but they aren't badly handled. It's a question of giving the reader too much to follow, not doing a bad job of tying everything together. I mentioned Robert Jordan and Wheel of Time in the review. Jordan has an almost laughable number of minor plots running in his books that cause confusion, but that doesn't mean they don't make sense in the end IF you can track them. Girl Genius isn't as complex, but particularly in the dramatic fight climax before Mechanicsburg a lot happens very fast and it can be difficult to keep abreast of all the revelations.

Finally, the accusatory comments towards the end. Look, it is obvious you are a big fan of the comic and are defending what I saw as its imperfections. I'm a fan too, I said as much, but Girl Genius does have its flaws and I take my job seriously which means I can't gloss over my opinion. It's about honesty on my part as a reviewer and I am giving my personal interpretation. Yours is duly noted and it's fine to disagree, but I do not appreciate the implication I wasn't paying attention or that my confusion is due to personal incompetence. I took a long time to work through the archives and the Foglio's website, as I do with all of my reviews. Just because you think the story is easy to follow due to your exhaustive experience in the field of subplots doesn't give you the right to call someone who, at points, didn't like the complexity inept.

The response and opinion is appreciated I'll take the criticism into account for future reviews, I'd just like to see a slightly less inflammatory reaction to someone having issues with a comic you like.
 

McClaud

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One thing you can discuss that won't give away any of the secrets of the comic, but I'll spoiler it so people who haven't read the fluff can pick up on this one, very important history lesson:

There was once a somewhat maniacal Spark family (although they were on and off benign throughout the years) with immense power called the Heterodynes. They pretty much "ruled" Europe - not with an iron fist (although that can be contended), but by their sheer popularity alone. Although everyone is afraid of the Heterodynes, everyone also LOVES the Heterodynes. They are the source of many strange and exciting tales of adventure in the world, and everyone loved the last few Heterodyne heirs named Barry and Bill Heterodyne. These two roguish adventurers went everywhere, did everything and saved the world ten times over from The Other. Usually with Baron Wulfenbach in tow.

However, the Heterodynes have all disappeared. Bill, Barry and Barry's wife all disappeared while fighting the Other. Wulfenbach was left behind, and he found the world falling apart in the absence of the Heterodyne family. The Jagers - being Heterodyne creations - had no one to lead them, so Wulfenbach offered them a job to work for him stabilizing Europe. That meant basically beating up and taking down all the Spark families who tried to take over in the vacuum of power when the Heterodynes mysteriously disappeared. He succeeded, somewhat, and continues the fight. He continuously seeks out imposter Heterodynes and cuts them open on his operating table (because both he and his son are Sparks as well).

You forgot to add Othar Tryggvassen to your list of important characters. Othar is probably the biggest comic relief next to Kosp in the series. He's so crazily unique that I think he's one of the best written antagonists ever.

I knew Phil's wife before he married her, and then met Phil at GenCon back in 1989. I've kept in touch with both of them for years, and it's fun to still meet up with them at random conventions.

Here's some trivia:

- Phil Foglio has made art for Magic the Gathering, XXXenophiles, did a Phil and Dixie comic in several issues of Dragon Magazine under TSR and has another comic called Buck Godot.
- Phil and Aaron Williams (of Nodwick and PS238 fame) worked together during their time on Dragon Magazine. They've done art for each other over the years. Sometimes you'll see references to Aaron's comics in Phil's comics, and vice-versa.
 

Smokescreen

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You were doing ok until here:

vultureX21 said:
Finally, the accusatory comments towards the end.
I was neither accusatory, nor inflammatory. I emphasized the words YOUR and AUTHORS because I wanted to point out where you'd missed the boat. I apologize if it wasn't clear, but there was no intention to make you feel stupid.

I also didn't say the story was 'easy to follow': that's you putting words in my mouth. What I said was:
In the era of tv shows like Deadwood, Battlestar Galactica, The Wire, not to mention comic books from Green Lantern/GL Corps, the Annihilus series from Marvel (And the galactic tales in general for the past 2+ years) and so on, having epic tales with subplots galore is becoming par for the course, so this complaint (and you spend a great deal of time on it) really rings hollow because you yourself say you cannot support it.
Which means that they are actually in line with current storytelling trends. From Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, to Bioshock, audiences are becoming more savvy, and storytellers are weaving more complex stories. So it's on you to demonstrate their pass/fail.

When you say:
"One, I'm not going to present a ton of evidence to support my opinion when that evidence can give away too much to the uninitiated reader."

This is a sign of laziness. I'm sorry, but if you want to be critical of a work, then the responsibility is on YOU to demonstrate your point. If you just say: well, stuff happened and I didn't get it! (I'm shortening this to make a point, not to be a dick) then you are providing a disservice to your reader by not supporting your argument with at least one example.

Second, you do have a conflict when you complain that there are too many characters and plots, but then say that the authors tie them all up! Either they take care of business, or they don't, and if they don't then you need to support what you're saying. I appreciate your desire to not spoil things for the uninitiated, but there are such things as SPOILER ALERT tags and the like. It's not your job to protect the reader, your job is to tell the reader what your opinion is in a clear and helpful way so they know if they should check out the comic (or whatever.) You have a point of view: support it! If you really do take your job seriously, then build a bridge for your opinion to ride on.

Even in your response to me you go off the rails. I didn't say anything about Robert Jordan (and with good reason; the man was an awful writer) and bringing him up to me is completely irrelevant to my comments. You make a brief, one-moment comparison and it doesn't have anything to do with the 5 pp I was talking about (which don't actually critique the work, or at least you don't tie it into the larger review as a whole and that is my issue here. Sure, I could've been clearer, but this isn't a criticism of criticism.)

Finally, you could take a few lessons in withholding the snark yourself.
"Just because you think the story is easy to follow due to your exhaustive experience in the field of subplots doesn't give you the right to call someone who, at points, didn't like the complexity inept. "

At no point did I call you inept. As a matter of fact at no point did I call you any name whatsoever. I did not use sarcasm, nor any derivative of you at all; I told you my impressions, and said why I felt that way, and I was pretty clear about it.

You obviously try to do your homework. What I'm telling you is; keep honing yourself, because it could be improved.
 

McClaud

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@ Smokescreen:

I don't think Vulture is an exception, though.

I talk to dozens of people who read GG everytime I go to a convention, and they also seem to flounder on many points of the story and have to go back and re-read it. There is a TON to digest over a long period of time. Girl Genius is 9 books large now. If you follow the paperbacks like I do, it's not so hard. But when you read the comic over the Internet, the story moves so much slower with so much time between events. It's hard to remember what happened where and when someone came into the story if you just follow the comic online

I'd say the fault is neither Vulture's or Phil's, but the fact that reading GG over the Internet makes it extremely hard to organize the material in your head because it's so big and nicely complex. It's a story full of plot twists, change-ups, deadpan and fast action.
 

vultureX21

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Smokescreen said:
You were doing ok until here:

vultureX21 said:
Finally, the accusatory comments towards the end.
I was neither accusatory, nor inflammatory. I emphasized the words YOUR and AUTHORS because I wanted to point out where you'd missed the boat. I apologize if it wasn't clear, but there was no intention to make you feel stupid.

I also didn't say the story was 'easy to follow': that's you putting words in my mouth. What I said was:
In the era of tv shows like Deadwood, Battlestar Galactica, The Wire, not to mention comic books from Green Lantern/GL Corps, the Annihilus series from Marvel (And the galactic tales in general for the past 2+ years) and so on, having epic tales with subplots galore is becoming par for the course, so this complaint (and you spend a great deal of time on it) really rings hollow because you yourself say you cannot support it.
Which means that they are actually in line with current storytelling trends. From Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, to Bioshock, audiences are becoming more savvy, and storytellers are weaving more complex stories. So it's on you to demonstrate their pass/fail.

When you say:
"One, I'm not going to present a ton of evidence to support my opinion when that evidence can give away too much to the uninitiated reader."

This is a sign of laziness. I'm sorry, but if you want to be critical of a work, then the responsibility is on YOU to demonstrate your point. If you just say: well, stuff happened and I didn't get it! (I'm shortening this to make a point, not to be a dick) then you are providing a disservice to your reader by not supporting your argument with at least one example.

Second, you do have a conflict when you complain that there are too many characters and plots, but then say that the authors tie them all up! Either they take care of business, or they don't, and if they don't then you need to support what you're saying. I appreciate your desire to not spoil things for the uninitiated, but there are such things as SPOILER ALERT tags and the like. It's not your job to protect the reader, your job is to tell the reader what your opinion is in a clear and helpful way so they know if they should check out the comic (or whatever.) You have a point of view: support it! If you really do take your job seriously, then build a bridge for your opinion to ride on.

Even in your response to me you go off the rails. I didn't say anything about Robert Jordan (and with good reason; the man was an awful writer) and bringing him up to me is completely irrelevant to my comments. You make a brief, one-moment comparison and it doesn't have anything to do with the 5 pp I was talking about (which don't actually critique the work, or at least you don't tie it into the larger review as a whole and that is my issue here. Sure, I could've been clearer, but this isn't a criticism of criticism.)

Finally, you could take a few lessons in withholding the snark yourself.
"Just because you think the story is easy to follow due to your exhaustive experience in the field of subplots doesn't give you the right to call someone who, at points, didn't like the complexity inept. "

At no point did I call you inept. As a matter of fact at no point did I call you any name whatsoever. I did not use sarcasm, nor any derivative of you at all; I told you my impressions, and said why I felt that way, and I was pretty clear about it.

You obviously try to do your homework. What I'm telling you is; keep honing yourself, because it could be improved.
I can admit when I made a mistake, and I misinterpreted the comments as demeaning, not conversational or debating. For that, you and everyone else reading the thread have my sincere apologies.

But, since I like the philosophical debate going on here, I'm going to respond the points you made, and yes, I might throw in a spoiler thread!

Honestly though, I'm writing my reviews with an aim at interesting uninitiated readers so I am choosing to avoid too much detail where possible. If that seems like I am copping out on my argument or defense of my assessment it's because I'm choosing to cut that part in favor of not potentially ruining a comic, especially one I really like. I'll stick the spoiler tags in here for my explanation, but I want to just make the point that I am doing these reviews with one particular purpose, which might detract from their value in some people's eyes.

That pretty much covers the first issue you had. I'm not trying to be lazy, I'm choosing to protect plot points in the comic. As to the conflict point, what I was trying to convey was that you can have too many characters and plots so that you mire a reader in them. I was reading Girl Genius and genuinely liking all of the characters, but I wanted them slightly condensed so that...

Let's just pick a few that did some things I think could have been handled differently. First, you have the dimwitted guard who Klaus mistakes for a spark who utterly disappeared after escaping the Castle and has now suddenly reappeared in Castle Heterodyne and thus far it's unclear what his real value to the story is (other than being a character we are already familiar with). Along that same vein, there's the traveling player Lars that becomes enthralled with Agatha and then is killed off by Klaus with little to no purpose (I get it, he loves her and is there to save her and it changes her, but when he died I didn't get that shock or pang of remorse for him you would hope for in such a scene, that's where I think having too many minor characters leads to some not being developed enough). Not to mention that in the Circus Life arc where we meet Lars we also meet Embi and the clank Stev who are introduced and quickly forgotten. Again, the Foglios are hinting at more here, but now a great deal further into the story nothing has happened yet to show either to be of any significance. I said it in the review and I'll say it again, I think some of the minor plots languish too long or simply don't lead anywhere. There's a famous saying that, to paraphrase, says "if you introduce a strange shopkeeper in Chapter 1, something better happen with him by the end of the book that makes his mentioning worth it" (that's not even close I know, but bear with me here). In the review I said, as you pointed out, that as many plot lines as they create the Foglios don't seem to leave any holes, they do tie things up neatly for the most part (the aforementioned Embi and Stev being currently unfinished stories, but of course the comic isn't over yet). My point is, even if you tie up mot of the threads you put on the loom that doesn't mean you NEED all of those threads. I'm talking a little condensing of some things, less is more, that sort of thing.

With Robert Jordan I was trying to make a hyperbolic comparison (by the way, I don't think he was a terrible writer, just a terribly long-winded one with too many balls in the air) to Girl Genius. Obviously Girl Genius' complexity and number of tangents isn't on the same level, thank God. I was just making a comparison for sake of exaggeration. I was trying to subtly say that Girl Genius isn't THAT complex, it's just complex enough to turn some people off at times. I personally love the story and I don't mind the momentary confusion because a few bruises don't ruin the whole apple.

And I get that you didn't like my introduction, which is totally understandable because I was hung up on the concept of originality. The correlation to other works was tearing through my mind and I had to get it down, and frankly I like the pondering there, but then I enjoy that sort of junk. If I were to condense my point (taking my own advise you see!) then I would say that Girl Genius is delightfully original and risk-taking in that originality. I mean, this is a very archetypal story of "heroine takes journey to save world" but the concept around it and the nature of its universe is enthralling, which is exactly why I still read it and recommend it.

As for my snarkiness, I certainly apologize for the misinterpretation of what you said. I thought it was an attack from a defensive fan and got a bit defensive myself. I still think you're a rabid fan, but then I am too so I can accept that! In all seriousness though, I've enjoyed the debate and I hope this continues. I'd also appreciate any commentary on the other reviews I've posted (if you have interest).

Oh! And maybe a review of Girl Genius of your own. I for one would definitely read it (and comment on it of course).

For McClaud's point I only want to add that the floundering readers are my major concern when I talk about confusion in the plot and the large number of supporting characters. If I was hitting moments of "wait, who was this fellow again?" as a fan of complex storytelling then I assumed others would have trouble. That was also the point of this not being a comic for everyone... well that and it's daring originality.
 

McClaud

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also wanted to point out that you said I would have a problem with your negative comments from my comments in another thread, but I don't, and if your review ever got back to Phil himself, he wouldn't have an issue with it either.

I was merely trying to say that if you have problems, it's okay to express them, because honesty is the best policy when reviewing a webcomic. And Phil's fans should understand that he doesn't have issues with people finding negative things in Girl Genius. In fact, I'll pass the review along to his wife because they like when people give them a little outside communication on their comics.
 

vultureX21

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Feb 26, 2009
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McClaud said:
also wanted to point out that you said I would have a problem with your negative comments from my comments in another thread, but I don't, and if your review ever got back to Phil himself, he wouldn't have an issue with it either.

I was merely trying to say that if you have problems, it's okay to express them, because honesty is the best policy when reviewing a webcomic. And Phil's fans should understand that he doesn't have issues with people finding negative things in Girl Genius. In fact, I'll pass the review along to his wife because they like when people give them a little outside communication on their comics.
I guess it is hard for me to reconcile in reviews I try to keep short (no, really) the issues I have with how much I like a comic. Part of the trouble with being an honest critic is that you have to be critical, even when you like something. I try to hit the high and low points of all the comics.

I'd be interested to hear what Phil thinks of the review, thanks.