Weed-Out Classes

[matrix3509]

As anyone who knows me can attest, I preserve a special little withered, black place in my heart for four year universities.

Today's subject is arguably the absolute worst aspect of all such places of supposed "learning."

Weed-Out Classes. You know the kind. The kind of class designed for only one thing, to scare away/fail as many potential degree earners as is humanly possible. Weed-Out Classes are the absolute antithesis of what institutions of higher learning should be focusing on. Instead of fostering an environment of learning to ensure maximum quality in education, and therefore maximum output of graduates, Weed-Out Classes seek only to instill fear and the feeling that students aren't wanted or needed. Professor's can't be reached for help in these classes. You're lucky if you can even get a TA to give you the time of day.

Personal Story: During my last semester at the last four year university I attended, I enrolled in a particularly bad example of one of these Weed-Out Classes before I wizened up and stopped playing their fucking games. Almost every available major had at least two Weed-Out Classes to, in the words of the Department Head for my major, "They are there to separate out the serious students from the common rabble." He actually used the word rabble. While this is a common excuse for most defenders of this trash, its actually cleverly disguised bullshit. You'd think that any sane individual would realize that a classroom conducive to learning would actually help people learn more effectively, thereby receiving a better education, thereby leading to more graduates (which is the only statistic four year universities are interested in). But I'm ranting here, back to the story. The first thing the prof. said as he entered to class was, "I am guaranteeing all of you right now that fifty percent of you will either drop or fail this class by the end of the semester." I said to myself, "Wow, what a dick." And promptly left the class to go drop.

I'm stopping here to be kind to you, my audience, but I could go on for three or four more hours on this subject. What does everyone else think of this most wretched of aspects of the university system?

 

[Kasawd]

I think it's fine, really. Those who aren't serious about learning would just drop out,anyway, right?

Hopefully, someone forked the university cash out for something they love and learning will not be too much of a chore. The essays should come naturally out of your love for the material.

Or do I just love law too much?

It is, however, unfair to those who ARE serious about education and adds undue strain onto an already heavy workload.

I see WHY they do it and I find it to be fine but I understand where the mistakes in its creation lay.

 

[Carbonic Penguin]

Nowadays, senior Chemistry has been sped up, so that the difference between year 12 and university is... practically none. If you manage to get through senior chemistry, then you'll find university easy. I can't really talk about those classes, because I haven't been in one, but as you said, they sound counter-productive. Sometimes all someone needs is a little encouragement.

 

[crudus]

As anyone who knows me can attest, I preserve a special little withered, black place in my heart for four year universities.

I myself have had a bad experience with these classes. The first and second calc class to be exact. The first one, I had a study buddy (who had taken the class before), studied everything, had an awesome TA, etc. I failed because I either answered the questions on the exams wrong or I answered them correctly but did the work to get said correct answer wrong ("wrong" meaning a way they didn't want but never said that in the directions). I never got above a 20/100 on those exams. The TA is a friend of mine now and said the class was bullshit and I deserved a C at least. Next semester I got a prof who could teach and grade and I did end up getting a C (rather than just saying "that is how things are" he said "here's why this works" which helps exponentially better with comprehension"). This semester I have a study buddy, my friends who have taken the class helping me on the homework, my TA friend helping me study for the exams saying I am good to go, and I am still failing. Something is wrong here when I have a small battalion helping me study and I am failing.

 

[Avaholic03]

Weed-Out Classes are the absolute antithesis of what institutions of higher learning should be focusing on. Instead of fostering an environment of learning to ensure maximum quality in education, and therefore maximum output of graduates, Weed-Out Classes seek only to instill fear and the feeling that students aren't wanted or needed.

This is where you lost me. Are you trying to argue that universities should give a degree to any idiot who makes it in the door?

"Weed-out classes" are absolutely necessary to separate the slackers from the people who are actually there to learn. They're ideally used for freshman year, so that professors in subsequent years aren't wasting their effort on people who really don't belong there.

These classes aren't designed to "instill fear" but instead designed to bring out the hard working students who will rise to the top. Anyone willing to put in the effort can pass these classes. And since you're complaining about them, I bet you're one who falls into the other category of kids who thought they'd breeze through freshman classes like they did through high school. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. A college degree shouldn't be easy, otherwise everyone would do it and it wouldn't be worth anything.

 

[Epicurus]

"Weed-out classes" are absolutely necessary to separate the slackers from the people who are actually there to learn. They're ideally used for freshman year, so that professors in subsequent years aren't wasting their effort on people who really don't belong there.

These classes aren't designed to "instill fear" but instead designed to bring out the hard working students who will rise to the top. Anyone willing to put in the effort can pass these classes. And since you're complaining about them, I bet you're one who falls into the other category of kids who thought they'd breeze through freshman classes like they did through high school. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. A college degree shouldn't be easy, otherwise everyone would do it and it wouldn't be worth anything.

I agree. Universities aren't only interested in turning out graduates, but also have to ensure that those graduates are qualified to a strict standard of education. A degree is more than a piece of paper, it's a guarantee from that University that you performed to their standards and are absolutely qualified to perform the work that you've been trained to do. The University is effectively staking their reputation on your ability to live up to your degree, and reputation means a lot to these institutions because it gains them funding and fee-paying students. Without a good reputation, a University won't get anywhere.

I have to admit that I find "weed-out" classes a bit of a harsh way to maintain this standard. I've had a hard experience myself with first-year programming. It started out really easily, being even easier than year 12 CompSci, but about halfway through they racked the difficulty up, and since I had become lazy from assuming it would all be as easy as I originally thought, I was caught off-guard and I ended up with a fail. At my University, first-year programming has a 60% failure rate because of this, but I understand that it's necessary, because while it is harsh, it prepares you for second year where things get considerably harder and it is imperative to learn to push yourself hard and concentrate on what you're supposed to be doing.

 

[matrix3509]

This is where you lost me. Are you trying to argue that universities should give a degree to any idiot who makes it in the door?

As I said in my post, a classroom that is conducive to learning will inevitably lead to a better education for all.

"Weed-out classes" are absolutely necessary to separate the slackers from the people who are actually there to learn.

Slackers will inevitably fail anyway. I lied actually, school don't only care about graduation rates, they also only care about failing rates.

They're ideally used for freshman year, so that professors in subsequent years aren't wasting their effort on people who really don't belong there.

As opposed to them wasting their time actually teaching when they could be getting published or some other such selfish bullshit? Yeah I suppose so. I've come across more than enough so called "teachers" who didn't give two shits about teaching. They treated it as if it was some undesirable act you shouldn't talk about publicly, like taking a shit. But that is another rant for another day.

As for your implication about me being too lazy, I actually made it quite far into my major before I said, "Fuck this up the ass with a rusty spoon. I'm tired of being treated like something the professor stepped on rather than as an actual human being."

A college degree shouldn't be easy, otherwise everyone would do it and it wouldn't be worth anything.

As if a college degree is worth anything anyway. Oh I wish I knew a roll of paper from a university wasn't even worthy to wipe my ass with back in the day.

 

[Epicurus]

As if a college degree is worth anything anyway. Oh I wish I knew a roll of paper from a university wasn't even worthy to wipe my ass with back in the day.

You can't be serious. Then again, it really does depend on which university your degree is from as to how much merit it implies. I wouldn't say any degree is worthless, unless it's from a fraudulent institution that gives out fake qualifications.

 

[Good morning blues]

I don't have any problem with "weed-out" classes, because 95% of the time they're just the prof bluffing, and the other 5% of the time I do just fine because I actually do my goddamned work. Maybe if there are enough weed-out classes it will separate out the people that are there to delay their entrance to the workforce for as long as possible who will then drop out, thusly improving the quality of the degree that I will end up receiving.

 

[Branovices]

I had a teacher for Physical Geography that gave the whole speech about how many would fail and we had to put in the work etc.

It was mostly to scare people away; I stuck with the class, which was very demanding but at the same time very rewarding. I felt I had gained real education and earned by grade at the end of the year (a solid B+). Sure, at the time when I was writing out water tables to figure out rain levels for different regions for hours on end I was a bit bitter, but overall I'm supremely pleased I took that class.

 

[whycantibelinus]

Clearly he was right. ;-)

Seriuosly though I do agree with you, it seems counter productive to an "institute of higher learning" to have classes like that.

 

[eypyeash]

As for your implication about me being too lazy, I actually made it quite far into my major before I said, "Fuck this up the ass with a rusty spoon. I'm tired of being treated like something the professor stepped on rather than as an actual human being."

Making it "quite far" isn't worth anything unless your degree was something you could create a portfolio for (like an fine arts based-major). And you won't get the extra money you coulda gotten for having a degree. If you think this sort of class was unfair and treated you like crap, you're probably gonna be surprised when not everyone kisses your ass every time you bend over. Some things are worth fighting for.

 

[BeeRye]

I'm doing psychology at my uni, and there are over 350 people enrolled in it. The fact is that only 50 can be taken into second year. So it is natural that they want people who are not actually serious about taking the subject to drop it and not waste their time or resources. I have no problem with this, I think if you really want to study a subject you will not have a major issue with having to put in some work.

Remember the object of being at university is to learn, not to memorize notes or lecture slides and spit them out verbatim during an exam, i.e. the university is interested in the production of knowledge vs the dissemination of knowledge. They want to teach you how to learn effectively and on your own, and this means you have to do a lot of work in your own time and reading from outside your course. You'll probably find that these weed-out classes require a lot of reading and out of lecture work, which - if you are serious about persuing a subject - you should be doing anyway.

As for the professor saying: "I am guaranteeing all of you right now that fifty percent of you will either drop or fail this class by the end of the semester.", I can only imagine that he is speaking from experience, and that this is actually the case.