Well, what did folks think of Burial at Sea?

[Ancient Mariner]

The DLC was marvellous in my opinion, doing a great job at resolving the loose ends that existed in the story up until now. Nearly every aspect of the content oozed polish and care, in many cases the little touches were what impressed me the most. The stuff involving Daisy seemed to exist only to appease those who heavily criticized her initial arc in Infinite proper and therefore felt out of place. A good example of a little touch of detail greatly enhancing the experience is the Pie song that one of Atlas's followers sings early on in the game, it's a great song and does so much for the ambiance of the sunken store, Irrational even has a free download of it on their site, seriously go check it out!

For all the flack Infinite has received over the past year, the game still stands out as the most imaginative, enjoyable and memorable gaming experience I have had in recent memory. Truly great works often prove controversial when they are first released, only to become more appreciated later on, I believe this will be the case with Infinite. Burial at Sea tied up the story arc of Elizabeth in a profound way and the whole DLC feels like a love letter from Irrational to its fans.

 

[Raggedstar]

For the most part I felt the same. It was certainly...a thing that happened.

I was pretty well engaged throughout the DLC (even when I felt like it was going a bit off kilter). I liked the setting, the characters, and whatnot, and I don't regret playing or buying it. Just some things rubbed me the wrong way.

The gameplay was serviceable but I can't help but feel the Bioshock combat format doesn't borrow itself well to stealth. I don't mind they gave an opportunity for Elizabeth to be in a non-lethal role though, as it is true to her character and at least tries to give an option. Did anyone use Ironsides? I can see how it would be useful, but personally I never used it (I would always try to avoid trouble and would instead keep the EVE for an emergency Peeping Tom or Posession). Other than that it's same old same old. But I will say that in this time of half-assed, on disc, cash grab DLC, it's nice to see a DLC have some meat to it with some actual effort to it.

Regarding the motivation, I definitely agree it was weak and I'm sure muddled it up for a lot of people. If a decent chunk of your audience is wondering "wait...WHY did Elizabeth go back to Rapture again?" then something is wrong. Booker (part 1 version) had a reason to risk life and limb for her because it felt like she meant something more. Elizabeth wants to save her because she feels guilt for what an alternate self did and she's just a nice person? Mind you at the same time the other Elizabeth was out of line with using that little girl as a pawn in her revenge.

As for the ending, I'll admit it was intense as hell (Atlas had me cringing at "trans-orbital" and had me nearly leaving the room at "lobotomy". Why yes, I'm also familiar with sodium thiopental. One of those moments where I wished I didn't have a medical education lol), but I'm not sure if I'm ok with it being THAT closely connected to Bioshock 1. Ya, playing about in Rapture was awesome, as was seeing Atlas, Cohen, Suchong, Ryan, and the gang, but I preferred Bioshock and Infinite more coexisting thematically in the same "multiverse" yet existing on their own than having it be this close. It feels like all what we learned and worked for in Infinite led to just one thing: triggering Rapture's civil war and saving Sally. Does feel like a let-down. We've gone from exploring the nature of the universe and dimensions to focusing on saving a kid we barely even knew. There were other problems with it, but my biggest concern was that it kinda takes the wind out of Infinite's sails.

My original hopes with Burial at Sea was that it was going to be a nifty noir spin-off set in Rapture. I'm not disappointed, but I don't feel like this story really needed to be told (Bioshock 1 was a pretty well contained story) and instead of creating more closure to Infinite's clusterfuck of a final act, created more questions. I also would've preferred further exploration to the Songbird too (who was a figure that tempted me to get Infinite in the first place), though I did like the whole imprinting research section. Oh, and actually SEEING Suchong get skewered by the Big Daddy was more satisfying than a supposedly good person should admit to. Take that, puppy killer!

Though pro-tip. Advise your friends to not finish this game at 1 AM. Boy did my brain hurt and my brain was kept up all night trying to process everything.

 

[INVALIDUSERNAME]

I really liked it, a few things about it:

I think the throw away line about Sally being sold by Elizabeth to Cohen's trafficking ring just to get Comstock killed while he's guilty about Anna/Elizabeth really should have been more important. I almost missed it the first time, and considering her whole motivation is to save some little shit that we only learned about, for the most part, through character dialogue felt a bit hollow. I get that she's guilty for selling the poor girl, but it felt shoehorned.

I actually loved the tie-in to the first game. It definitely didn't need to exist - Bioshock 1 was a pretty fantastically self-contained game right from the start - but I thought the fact that they managed to merge so many of these things in a pretty (for the most part) painless way was awesome.

If you didn't hate Fontaine before, you sure as hell do now.

I thought the combat in the first Bioshock blew balls, and I loved Infinite's, so I can't really complain about this one's. The stealth was pretty nifty, but it was way too easy with the perma-stealth as long as you don't move. Maybe some purists will do a stealth run without Peeping Tom but I managed to do 1998 mode without a single death.

Elizabeth dying made my gut wrench. I guess, after all the time we invested in that poor girl finally having a good life, it just sucked to see her throw it all away for some Little Sister that was only in that stupid situation because Elizabeth wanted Comstock to feel guilt before he got skewered.

The space-time paradox with Columbia. That timeline is closed but not really because maybe it always exists as a fractal of time? Who the hell knows. It's something that's explained away with "wellp, that's interdimensional travel for you!" which kind of sucks but, considering how much worse the whole dimensional-travel thing could have been, I find that that was a pretty tame problem to have.

Seeing Suchong die was wonderful. Fuck him.

I didn't mind the Daisy Fitzroy subplot if only because I think it validated her character a little bit more. Before, she was the walking stereotype of "crazy revolutionary leader" who goes apeshit and is about to kill a kid because what? She hates Fink? Like, okay kill Fink, but leave the poor kid alone. After hearing voxophone after voxophone talking about equality and fairness in her revolution, it was pretty jarring to see that scene. So, I thought that helped flesh her out a bit more and, at the very least, I don't think she's a giant **** anymore. A bit hamfisted and fanservicey, but I'll take it for what it's worth.

Overall: For a piece of DLC? For a $15 piece of DLC? It was fucking fantastic. It told a better story than most AAA games do these days, and that's pretty sad, but also a testament to how good I thought this DLC was. It's at least like a solid 8/10. Shame to see Bioshock (the Ken Levine line of Bioshock games anyways) go the way of the dodo, but it was one hell of a way to end the series.

Also, I had that same problem with Episode 1: Beat the whole thing on 1999 Mode using 2 guns. What a save-scumming disaster. Now that I knew about it, of course you don't need it for the second Episode.

 

[raeior]

Oh, I liked the gameplay and some parts were very intense in a good way. (Hello Mr. Lobotomy!)

But to me this wasn't a story that needed to be told. I didn't really finish Bioshock with the question "Jeez, how DID Atlas know that trigger-phrase!" burning in my mind.

This pretty much sums up what I'm thinking about the DLC. When they announced the season pass I wasn't thinking "oh boy hopefully they go back to Rapture and put it all into one big picture". I was thinking "Wow what a great game I want to learn more about Columbia, the world, the people, Songbird, everything". Then they announced that the DLCs would be playing in Rapture again and I was really disappointed. Don't get me wrong, I loved Bioshock 1 and 2 but for me those chapters were closed. The stuff that is now explained by Elizabeths intervention was fine for me before. Fontaine prepared Jack as a kind of secret weapon for overthrowing Ryan so it's obvious why he knows the trigger phrase. All the problems Suchong had with the bonding of the little sisters was already discussed in BS1 and 2, so there wasn't really a need to tie it in with Songbird etc.

Also the Songbird laboratory...there was basically no explanation at all. So he tried to bond animals to humans but failed...so...what? The corridor with the dead dogs was terrible but still I don't understand what information I was supposed to get from that. The same for the Handyman factory. So they were using people about to die for this operation and everyone was fine with that? Did they decide to become monsters on their own term?

Also as many have said in this thread the whole motivation thing. Or more the complete change of character for Elizabeth. At the end of episode 1 I was just shocked at what they turned her into. Burning a child alive just to get her revenge? Seriously? One episode later she suddenly is hit by the guilt train even though she isn't the same Elizabeth that did this but instead some kind of "quantum super Elizabeth" that combines all of them into one person?

Gameplay wise I liked the second episode even though the stealth system was pretty obviously just tacked onto the game. My main complaint there would be the low number of spoken lines for the Splicers. They repeat the same few sentences over and over and over. Also the sound of Elizabeths shoes...god was that annoying! But that's nitpicking.

All in all I liked the beginning of the second episode the most but felt that it really lost it's appeal later on. It could have been used to flesh out the characters of BS 1 but even that didn't happen that much. Basically we see some stuff instead of just listening to it through audiologs but even that doesn't give us much new insights. It's not that I think the DLCs were bad, just unnecessary and I would have preferred them to flesh out Columbia. The multiverse "there's always a city" stuff and the limited exchange between the two universes was enough in my eyes to tie the Bioshocks together.

 

[Mikejames]

Liz shouldn't even exist anymore and neither should any version of Comstock.
One question about Daisy though: I never understood why she thought that killing a kid was necessary. It showed that she was just as screwed up as Comstock, yeah, but it never made complete sense to me, character wise. So to me the twist in Burial at Sea was a welcome one.

If anyone wants a thorough analysis of BaS, you may want to watch this video. The guy is great at what he does.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKt9g_uf7lw

I guess the idea that the events in Rapture are happening simultaneous to the drowning is one way to look at it, but it's a bit hard to wrap my head around things chronologically. Especially when I thought that Infinite's ending implied that the outcome of Booker's drowning was a world where he and Anna could have a normal life, but who knows?

And the Daisy twist made her seem more rational, but I think I would have preferred it to be part of Infinite's main campaign if it was the original idea.

I think the throw away line about Sally being sold by Elizabeth to Cohen's trafficking ring just to get Comstock killed while he's guilty about Anna/Elizabeth really should have been more important.

I actually did miss that info on my run, so I'll have to agree with you there.. Seems fairly important in establishing a more direct responsibility to what happened, though it's fairly dark that she would stoop that low in the first place.

 

[joshuaayt]

I had problems with it, plotwise.
Not the whole "There still being a comstock" thing- it actually makes sense, when you think about it. The Elizabeth we play as isn't the exact same one as in Infinite- she can't be, she doesn't exist.
We stopped a Booker from making that baptism decision- but what about the Booker who had a cold that day, and decides to do it tomorrow?
What about the literally infinite number of other ways the baptism could work out? That was my main issue with Infinite, and this DLC sorta fixed that, weirdly- It's a non issue; we stopped nothing, there's still plenty of Columbias out there.

No, my problem was- OK, great job, Liz, you saved all the little sisters. Of this universe.
You used to be a trans-dimensional goddess, how on EARTH could you consider saving one universe's children a solid victory? There's still an infinite number of Raptures out there, with an infinite number of little sisters- Your Jack ain't gonna be much help to them. In comparison to what we achieved in Infinite- Cutting off a theoretically infinite number of terrible dimensions- this is such a step backwards in scale it's hard to comprehend.

Also, didn't Elizabeth, like. Cause the downfall of Rapture? By helping Atlas return? Sure, the shitty prison area had splicers aplenty, but we saw the happy party life in the city above it, a LOT of innocent people died when Atlas gatecrashed.

Loved the gameplay, though. Cool being even more fragile than you were at the beginning of Bioshock 1; I felt damn wealthy when I had two shells in my shotgun.

 

[Hero of Lime]

I guess I liked Bioshock: ODST for what it was.

It took me about 30 minutes to get to a point where I was enjoying myself, there was a point where I had gotten a checkpoint with little health and ammo, and the game kept spawning an enemy right in front of me. So for a while I was getting a bit sour on the whole experience. I liked the scarcity of resources, yet I felt like there were too many enemies to justify giving you less to work with. I know stealth was key, but getting caught was usually an automatic death sentence.

I agree that the motivation for rescuing Sally was pretty much non existent for me. Oddly enough, having Booker concerned about her in part 1 made the rescue much more justified considering Booker's past with losing children.

Other than that, I liked how it connected everything, even though I never felt the highlighted aspects of the story never needed explanations, but it was nice to see so I won't complain.

 

[Saetha]

Snip

(Sorry for kinda necro-ing here, but it hasn't been thirty days since the thread died and I just finished the DLC)

I... do agree with you, for the most part. I kinda felt disconnected from Elizabeth's motivation - and kinda found it hypocritical, too. I mean, yeah she was guilty over what she did to Sally and wanted to make that right, but... didn't she kinda end up ruining more lives than she saved? Sure, Sally's free and probably gets un-Little Sister-ified by Jack, but... the entirety of Rapture had to fall to make that happen. It's like she only nominally understands what "redemption" means - if you put yourself "in the red," morally speaking, in your attempt to right past wrongs, well, now you've just made more wrongs that you'll eventually feel guilty about and have to right later. In many ways, she did the exact thing that got herself into this situation in the first place. She went to Rapture to kill Comstock and right this final wrong - in doing so, she wronged someone else and so, to set things right she... screws an entire city over? If she was working from a perch of omniscience before, wouldn't she have known what her actions would bring about and that, yes, what she did to Sally was awful, but what she'll do trying to save her is even worse?

I guess that's the problem, working with an omniscient character - they can't ever screw up, since they know what will happen and how to avoid screwing up. But the game makes Elizabeth screw up anyway and then just completely brushes over the fact, like she did nothing wrong. It felt really dissonant with the rest of the game and Elizabeth's desire for redemption, and this is coming from someone who didn't find at all the fact that Booker took down Comstock by slaughtering half of Columbia.

As for Fitzroy... I felt like that whole bit was a saving throw, an attempt by Levine to go "No, see, I didn't write a stupid, shallow character! She had a real motivation! There's a reason she went batshit evil! She got told by the Luteces that this random chick she'd never meant needed to know how to kill and Daisy, apparently, was the only individual who could fulfill that role - the Luteces couldn't have found some random schmuck to do it instead because reasons!" Not to mention Daisy still fully supported her revolution even when it was clear that they were more interested in revenge than in justice. I dunno. To me, it felt more like Levine wasn't trying to redeem Daisy but his own writing ability - you fumbled the Vox Populi plotline, Ken. It was just... it was just a giant mess. Own up to that.

On the other hand, there were some things I absolutely loved. How it all tied around back to the first game, how it explained Big Daddies and Songbird and Jack. I liked how we found out more about Fink's character just by looking around his house than the game itself ever really showed us. But at the same time, I don't feel like ELizabeth really needed to be the one to show us those things. I feel like the story was more about Rapture than anything, and that it would've worked just as well, if not better, if the protagonist had been someone else entirely. Very little of the game actually revolved around her - the only thing really brought up is the cycle of revenge she's stuck in and how she's a lot like Booker, but that didn't really go anywhere...

Also, I still say Booker's not really dead. That stinger at the end of Infinite clearly showed him in his office with a baby crying nearby. Not a little girl. Not Sally. A baby. So... what's up with that? Why didn't that go anywhere?

 

[Extra-Ordinary]

I liked it.
Personally, I think it was a pretty good way to send off Bioshock, what with Irrational closing down and all.
I'm not sure whether I want to call it cannon or non-cannon (which I could probably do both, considering the universe thing) because I always liked Bioshock and Infinite being two separate things, but I don't know how much I mind tying them together.
Seeing the Luteces tugging the strings even more than I thought kind of surprised me, being that little push Daisy needed for her revolution. Not to mention that I have some more admiration for her considering she was indeed willing to die for her cause.
I still wish I learned more about Songbird. Seeing the prototype and the animals was cool but I still would have liked more.
The exchanges between Fink and Suchong, I liked that, it's hinted at if you find the voxaphone but really diving into it, that was cool.
Anyway.
Like I said, a great way to send off Bioshock in my opinion.

 

[layden radeen]

I think the retooled game play more or less worked I think Elizabeths arc was good with her almost being cast as a villain or a anti hero at the start and her atoning for some of her off screen deeds but the ending payoff was a bit week with sally and jack just not being very interesting and not a lot of and ending with the universes in my opinion looping due to the time line in both Bioshock,Bioshock infinite and Burial at Sea going in a circle

But over all on par with the other games and a lot better than what passes for DLC with some other games

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

I thought Infinite was one of my favorite games until the ending twist. You are the antagonist from another dimension, the city is suspended because of some quantum thingy particle, and Columbia never existed in the first place because you were supposedly killed in the past by three simultaneous different dimensions of Elizabeth. Loved that game until the last half hour absolutely trashed my opinion on it.

Episode 1 was okay. Return to Rapture, return of some of Bioshock 1 & 2's old gameplay, exclusion of the insanity that is Elizabeth's tears. Elizabeth still uses her tears, but it's for small plot elements and corner cutters, which is how they should have been in Infinite's main story before they brought in the cross dimensional insanity. It was wonderful to see Rapture alive and lackadaisical like what Infinite showed us of Columbia, it was great to have Booker and Elizabeth back and communicating with each other. But, the DLC was short short short: Took me about three hours my first time through, and we got a small slice with only a few choice enemies, one returning Plasmid, and one new gun. It was hard because of the new weapon implementations, but it played so similarly to Infinite that it wasn't holding my interest. Which isn't bad, because I liked Infinite's combat. Bullshit ending, it's really boring the DLC saw so little Skyhook usage.

Episode 2 was an absolute treasure. Much longer, played so differently to Infinite and Episode 1, the story was pretty brutal at the end, and the focus on exploring worlds is back. It was great to let Booker take the support role, it was a great move by Irrational to have Elizabeth be slower and worse at gunplay in comparison. Stealth, while fresh and new, was ultimately pretty dang bullshit and easily exploitable, especially later when you get the plasmid modifiers. But that ending, that last hour or so after Ryan's cameo could not have been done better. Experiencing Elizabeth's torture, saving the Big Daddy, witnessing Suchong's murder, and the reveal of the Ace in the Hole are going to stick with me better than anything else in Infinite. I would've been happy to buy this part as a $30 inclusion, I'd take this as an appropriate prequel to Bioshock 1 anyday.

Okay, but:

Episode 2's return to Columbia and Daisy Fitzroy was unnecessary. Trying to justify Daisy Fitzroy as being anything but a poorly written character is going to fail, even if you try incorporating the Luteces into it. Going through Columbia when you're not fast-paced, Skyhook-riding Booker is boring when you're back to crouching everywhere and meleeing oblivious AI.

The game continued to rip out more of the RPG elements, even after Infinite's paltry RPG elements. Weapon and Plasmid upgrades are sparse or just not there, Infusions and clothing modifiers were removed entirely from Episode 2, which means money in that game is worthless because there's nothing worth spending it on.

The Big Daddy fight was nostalgic, but he was easily dispatched because of Elizabeth's tears and the fact that he couldn't touch Booker when you use a Skyhook. Handymen are a lot more formidable, because they shock Booker if he uses a Skyhook to get away, and because they can't be completely stunlocked without any effort on your part. I wanted to face off against a Big Daddy properly, without easy getaways and a much better arena to use, but it of course never happens.

The entire section, especially Episode 1, needed more new tools and fun things for Booker to do to compensate for the lack of... everything. Plasmids, weapons, Skyhooks, alternative enemies, Elizabeth's interactions, and length. If we saw the return of the Chemical Thrower or alternative ammo types, please should've returned.

 

[keith32]

As for Fitzroy... I felt like that whole bit was a saving throw, an attempt by Levine to go "No, see, I didn't write a stupid, shallow character! She had a real motivation! There's a reason she went batshit evil! She got told by the Luteces that this random chick she'd never meant needed to know how to kill and Daisy, apparently, was the only individual who could fulfill that role - the Luteces couldn't have found some random schmuck to do it instead because reasons!" Not to mention Daisy still fully supported her revolution even when it was clear that they were more interested in revenge than in justice. I dunno. To me, it felt more like Levine wasn't trying to redeem Daisy but his own writing ability - you fumbled the Vox Populi plotline, Ken. It was just... it was just a giant mess. Own up to that.

The Fitzroy retcon really bugged me. It sounds like Levine just gave into complaints from the people who liked Daisy and the Vox and hated that they ended up getting portrayed as being as bad as Comstock & Co. When the criticism from both right wingers and left wingers first came up about the game, Levine was sticking to his guns and saying that criticism from both sides showed him that he got it right. Now he decides to go in one direction. People who get confused on why someone with initial good intentions like Daisy could end up becoming so messed up on her own only needs to read some history. Kim Il-Sung (the first leader of North Korea) was a heroic Marxist freedom fighter back in the day, fighting the Japanese occupation of Korea and getting exiled to Russia. Didn't turn out to be such a great guy when he got into power - purging the country of any Japanese left over and anyone who dared to oppose him.

But children? Executing children? Well remember the slaughter of the whole Romanov family?

 

[Saetha]

As for Fitzroy... I felt like that whole bit was a saving throw, an attempt by Levine to go "No, see, I didn't write a stupid, shallow character! She had a real motivation! There's a reason she went batshit evil! She got told by the Luteces that this random chick she'd never meant needed to know how to kill and Daisy, apparently, was the only individual who could fulfill that role - the Luteces couldn't have found some random schmuck to do it instead because reasons!" Not to mention Daisy still fully supported her revolution even when it was clear that they were more interested in revenge than in justice. I dunno. To me, it felt more like Levine wasn't trying to redeem Daisy but his own writing ability - you fumbled the Vox Populi plotline, Ken. It was just... it was just a giant mess. Own up to that.

The Fitzroy retcon really bugged me. It sounds like Levine just gave into complaints from the people who liked Daisy and the Vox and hated that they ended up getting portrayed as being as bad as Comstock & Co. When the criticism from both right wingers and left wingers first came up about the game, Levine was sticking to his guns and saying that criticism from both sides showed him that he got it right. Now he decides to go in one direction. People who get confused on why someone with initial good intentions like Daisy could end up becoming so messed up on her own only needs to read some history. Kim Il-Sung (the first leader of North Korea) was a heroic Marxist freedom fighter back in the day, fighting the Japanese occupation of Korea and getting exiled to Russia. Didn't turn out to be such a great guy when he got into power - purging the country of any Japanese left over and anyone who dared to oppose him.

But children? Executing children? Well remember the slaughter of the whole Romanov family?

Yeah, that too. This is actually the reason why, despite the numerous issues surrounding the writing of Daisy and the Vox, I really liked the plotline. It reminds one that those righting an injustice can go too far the other way and end up being as bad as the things they're fighting - a lesson many could use today. But I get the feeling it went over the heads of most of the people it was directed at, and instead of realizing even good intentions can be dangerous if unchecked, they just sort complained that Daisy didn't turn out to be the perfect hero she thought they'd be. I, for one, found it rather refreshing, that for once the revolution wasn't some glorious vehicle of change, but a bunch of vengeful jerks that were just as violent and prejudiced as the society they wanted to over throw.

That being said, the plotline really was fumbled - Daisy's change of heart came out of nowhere, her motivation for wanting Booker dead was shaky at best, and the whole thing felt jumbled and directionless, just an excuse for Booker to run around Columbia some more. But I feel like this "redemption" of Levine's just raises more questions and opens more plot holes - why would Elizabeth need to kill Daisy, specifically, and not someone less important? Why would Daisy feel the sacrifice was worth it, that it was perfectly alright to throw her life away and endanger her revolution just because Elizabeth needs to "leave a woman?" Why would she still condone her revolution's obvious shift from justice to vengeance, and why would she send it after Booker, especially knowing that doing so may endanger the life of the woman who Daisy's trying to turn into a murderer? And hell, why would Daisy even listen to the Luteces to begin with? Aren't they dead, for all she knows? A pair of dead scientists pop up on her doorstep (Probably by blinking into existence right on top of it - that's how they left, after all) tell her she's got to die and this girl's got to be the one to do it and so she's got to threat to kill this kid, and Daisy just goes "Hmm, yeah, okay." Like, what? Why would Daisy take any advice from them, especially this particular advice? The whole mess just caused more trouble than it solved.

 

[Vault101]

I just finished it

SPOILERS OBVIOUSLY

I uhhh.....uhh...I

...well...... ........I mean.......

well its not like that other ending of a game we wont mention, Elizabeth's death wasn't totally stupid it made sense....however why did ATLAS feel the need to beat her to death with a wrench? did he just want to keep Sally? I also felt the thing with Daisy fitroy might have a bit ret-con-y....but admit I did like her...and I liked the idea of her being wise enough to see what was going on

it was great overall but the problem is I knew this was the end to Bioshock...and I'm a bit sad it had to end on a low note...I can't really pretend Burial at sea isn't cannon...

Spoiler: and the labotomy scene.....

[img/]http://i.imgur.com/OKMQx.gif[/img] NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NOT HAVIN THAT SHIT!!

- The whole "rescue Sally" angle was distinctly lacking as a motivation. I think Mr Levine has yet to realise that people don't care all that much about the Little Sisters. Sure, no doubt most of us can agree that rescuing exploited children from terrible fates is a generally fine thing, and it makes sense that Elizabeth would be feeling guilty as hell, but without any characterization or investment we don't really care, y'know?



- Lastly, the ending. Now this is super subjective, but, well... damn if I didn't want to see Elizabeth get a happy-ish kind of ending. After all the shit she'd clawed her way through, she deserved that vacation in Paris, damn it! Knowingly meeting her death by bludgeoning at Fontaine's hand... yeesh. That left me feeling a bit empty in the gut. Congrats to them for getting me to give a shit, but that was harsh.

I agree....especially after..well..yeah

the probelm is as you pointed out Sally herself and the little sisters don't have any inate emotional weight, which made the ending more of a downer than it could have been because I cared more about Elizabeth...just look at Infinite, Elizabeth carries lots of emotional weight because she's actually a character, the ending of infinite had more impact because we cared about her as much as Booker did

and that is [i/]"don't use animals/children as a cheap source of emotional attachment in writing because it doesn't work 101" [/i]