Western animation
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That is my favorite clip from that show. "Who is driving? Oh no! BEAR IS DRIVING?!? HOW CAN THAT BE?!?!?"Rigs83 said:
I lol everytime.
And it seems that's the difference between east/western animation. In western animation, it's like 80%/20% comedy/action (respectively) while eastern anime seems to be about 50/50.
Hello Escapist, its my first post but I thought I'd throw my opinion in here. I'm a fan of both Western and Eastern animation and being someone who is training to be an animator right now I've got a bit of industry experience. Over here is the west Animation generally comes in two flavors. Kids stuff (everything that's part of the mainstream) and experimental (anything aimed at adults only) There are exceptions to the rule however, so don't jump down my throat just yet.
Now, many of the people I've spoken to really want to do good western animation. The problem is the studios. Most of the time fresh animators aren't in any position to make what they want to make and the studio's are unwilling to do anything that might not sell.
There is also the president to consider. Over in the West animation is looked at like children's toys, i.e. not for adults, and when it is directed at adults its in the form of 'Zany comedy' like family guy, Southpark and All American Dad. Over in Japan there's much more of a call for it, its been there for longer and is more acceptable. Hell, it makes up part of their porn industry for crying out loud!
Its not a question of better, its a question of wether or not the west is willing to make the risk to try and put good/serious attempts at animation out into the mainstream. Films like "waltz of Basher" and "Persepolis" don't count because they're labeled 'experimental'. The closest we've actually come is with "Corraline", but thats from Tim Burton and was marketed as a kids film. God knows why, I've seen adults cry at it's creepiness...
I've kinda lost my train of thought now...
(sorry its its a bit TL;DR I got kinda carried away)
Now, many of the people I've spoken to really want to do good western animation. The problem is the studios. Most of the time fresh animators aren't in any position to make what they want to make and the studio's are unwilling to do anything that might not sell.
There is also the president to consider. Over in the West animation is looked at like children's toys, i.e. not for adults, and when it is directed at adults its in the form of 'Zany comedy' like family guy, Southpark and All American Dad. Over in Japan there's much more of a call for it, its been there for longer and is more acceptable. Hell, it makes up part of their porn industry for crying out loud!
Its not a question of better, its a question of wether or not the west is willing to make the risk to try and put good/serious attempts at animation out into the mainstream. Films like "waltz of Basher" and "Persepolis" don't count because they're labeled 'experimental'. The closest we've actually come is with "Corraline", but thats from Tim Burton and was marketed as a kids film. God knows why, I've seen adults cry at it's creepiness...
I've kinda lost my train of thought now...
(sorry its its a bit TL;DR I got kinda carried away)
Rigs83 is right though. Most television animation from Western companies is outsourced overseas. All of the pre-production art assets are developed here, but it's cheaper to send the grunt work to South Korea and other places. It's too bad because I think the quality of the animation suffers, but business is business after all.
So it comes down to the concepts and visual development. From what I see in the states, I think Western television animation is more diverse in terms of its styles, but anime tends to have more intriguing concepts. Part of this is that western shows tend to be more episodic, with stories beginning and ending in less than 30 minutes. This lends itself to more fast-paced humor. Most anime I've seen likes to have long storylines that span several seasons, with mini story arcs occurring throughout. It's a different way of telling stories and entertaining audiences. Better? Depends on taste. A lot of times, the last thing i want to do is sit down and try to watch an anime. Some of these series can be tough to get into mid-way, whereas the small serving size of western toons rarely allows them to become esoteric.
I have the suspicion that we're spoiled in the West in terms of anime because we're likely to get only the best series with the widest appeal (gotta be worth the money to bring it all stateside). I can't imagine what kind crap they may have to deal with in Japan that we never see...
So it comes down to the concepts and visual development. From what I see in the states, I think Western television animation is more diverse in terms of its styles, but anime tends to have more intriguing concepts. Part of this is that western shows tend to be more episodic, with stories beginning and ending in less than 30 minutes. This lends itself to more fast-paced humor. Most anime I've seen likes to have long storylines that span several seasons, with mini story arcs occurring throughout. It's a different way of telling stories and entertaining audiences. Better? Depends on taste. A lot of times, the last thing i want to do is sit down and try to watch an anime. Some of these series can be tough to get into mid-way, whereas the small serving size of western toons rarely allows them to become esoteric.
I have the suspicion that we're spoiled in the West in terms of anime because we're likely to get only the best series with the widest appeal (gotta be worth the money to bring it all stateside). I can't imagine what kind crap they may have to deal with in Japan that we never see...
Most people don't even buy their anime... they watch free fansubs online. When I watched it at all, I sure didn't pay. I was too goddamn poor then, and I've lost interest now. I mean I still like anime, its just I watch a lot more live action TV shows now, and that takes a long time, because generally the episodes are much longer, and I've kind of stopped entertaining the notion of having enough time to watch anime as well as everything else, given my school and work schedule.rsvp42 said:
stinkychops said:
May I repeat... it's the same over here! Anime is for nerds and children in Japan too. Just because it hits stateside doesn't mean it was actually popular in Japan at all. Pretty much just the anime I stated above, as far as I know, really took off in Japan. The manga that the anime we know are based on are likely to be where the popularity of the series is in Japan. Even though they may not know the anime at all, they will more likely know the manga.stinkychops said:
Oh, and they also love Studio Ghibli movies, but again, they're seen as kids' movies. When I first got here, I couldn't walk two steps without hearing screaming children following the Ponyo theme song.
Yeah, that's definitely true. I was referring more to the companies like Funimation that do the english dubs for TV and DVD releases. The companies that do that need to pick series for which hiring the voice actors and doing all the regionalization stuff is worth their investment. I suspect that series like Naruto and Fullmetal Alchemist that enjoy popularity over here may be the cream of the crop somewhat, with many less admirable series never making the jump across the pond (thankfully).Skooterz said:
I think western animation is just as inventive and bizarre. Was i the only one terrified by this? <youtube=944cPciN-kw>
I know it gets bashed a lot and sometimes rightly but Disney has been spitting out solid animation for years. Princess and the Frog is a magnificent return to form. As well as that you have inspired madness like Ren and Stimpy (Oh mother of god Superjail) and cultural comentary like the Simpsons, South Park and The Boondocks. Hell two of the better films about war and internationalism I have seen recently were animated (anyone hasn't seen Persepolis or Waltz with Bashir go check 'em out).
Not saying Eastern animation is bad, gods I love it to bits, Studio Ghibli restores my faith in humanity regularly, but it is a bit floavour of the month if you ask me.
I know it gets bashed a lot and sometimes rightly but Disney has been spitting out solid animation for years. Princess and the Frog is a magnificent return to form. As well as that you have inspired madness like Ren and Stimpy (Oh mother of god Superjail) and cultural comentary like the Simpsons, South Park and The Boondocks. Hell two of the better films about war and internationalism I have seen recently were animated (anyone hasn't seen Persepolis or Waltz with Bashir go check 'em out).
Not saying Eastern animation is bad, gods I love it to bits, Studio Ghibli restores my faith in humanity regularly, but it is a bit floavour of the month if you ask me.
Sorry if I came across a bit harsh on you. I just tended to notice that people in general in this topic seemed to be mistakenly taking the position that anime must be really popular with both Japanese children and adults, and you happened to qualify your statement about it being for nerds/children with "Western society", so I was mistaken in thinking you had the mistaken opinion on Japan. Again, sorry for making the mistake. Though your remark about nerdiness is right in the sense that in Japan, anime shows are the childrens' shows. As for the ones that are made for adults, I believe they're either shown late at night after most people have already gone to bed (so only nerds would stay up to watch them) or they just go straight to DVD. And if you think anime is an expensive hobby in the West (if you prefer to actually buy your anime), Japanese DVD prices are stupidly high. An average DVD here is about twice the price of a DVD back in America.stinkychops said:Accepted.Skooterz said:stinkychops said:
I never made any suggestions to anime's position in the culture of the East. Just that it seems to be less nerdy in the West to watch/read anime than opposed to reading comics and watching childrens shows (the only Western cartoons I'm aware of).toriver said:
Very true.gof22 said:
I'm an anime snob, been a fan for almost 30 years now, however I know the history of manga and anime, plus being a fan of ALL animation skews my views of all of the different styles.
It's usually the otaku who will ferverently deny that ANYTHING not Japanese equates to crap or "lesser" animation. However, without Warner Brothers and Disney, NO ONE would have anime.
Basically, Western and Eastern animation is brilliant in their own ways--and that includes stop-motion Russian animation and underground Czech animated movies that, if found at the time, would have resulted in the deaths of the creators 15 years ago. =P
Batman : The Animated Series, anyone? But yeah, sadly a lot of Western animation seems to be aimed at children, to the point that people automatically assume that all of it is for the younglings. [small][sub]although some of it's still good...[/sub][/small]
I haven't been a fan of western animation as a whole since I was in Grade 9 or 10 (about 7-8 years ago). That was when I noticed I was growing out of most shows that I used to watch regularly and new ones had failed to fill the void. My love of The Simpsons was waning (and has since evaporated) and Teletoon and YTV were sticking primarily with their target demographic while avoiding mine. Family Guy, South Park, and Futurama kept me going for a while and a couple of shows tried their best (Robot Chicken, Harvey Birdman) but I ended up stopping watching western cartoons and haven't since re-started. Anime, however, has plenty of thought-provoking and/or titillating programming to keep me enjoying show after show so I still watch eastern animation.