What about fun?

[Racecarlock]

A recent trend in gaming that i've been following is the rise of cinematic bullshit. When I look at games like GTA IV and then compare it to Saints Row 2, I find a huge difference between how much fun the games are and how much they focused on story. I hear about uncharted games and am happy for the fans that enjoy them, but I don't think I could get into a game that leads me around by the nose to pre rendered action sequences when I can do similarly awesome things in a sandbox environment at any time I want. I look at part 6 of darksydephil's heavy rain playthrough and think "How the hell did they get away with that homework scene?". Then I look at games that are going to come out and I find that they're either linear, or simulate house chores, future elder scrolls release excluded.

I understand why people like drama, certainly, but what about the epic moments in free roam modes that just make you laugh, like in Saints Row 2 when my character badly sings along with the final countdown while i'm flying a private jet? What about those epic moments where you realize that, for example, you just did a base jump that began from over the clouds and ended when you released the parachute about 1 meter or less from the ground? What about things so epically ridiculous that they make you laugh, like in Just Cause 2 when rico starts humming "March Of The Valkyries" while you're shredding an army base with the two miniguns on the helicopter you just stole by throwing the pilot out several meters in the air?

Why can't games have both dramatic moments and still be really fun? Why must a game be entirely dramatic and therefore have scenes where you set the table, shave your character, make dinner, and so on? It's not like it's impossible.

And so I end with this question. Fellow escapists, what are YOUR thoughts on all of this?

 

[Jedoro]

Some people just enjoy a dramatic game. It's like movies: you don't make one to cater to everyone, you have different kinds for different audiences.

 

[northeast rower]

I like the concept of a cinematic game, but only when it contributes to the game as a whole. Some parts of Heavy Rain were absolutely fucking ridiculous (brushing your teeth? come the fuck on) but the game as a whole was excellent due to that cinematic feel. Dead Space 2 and Uncharted 2 are both reliant upon the cinematic idea- ie when a floor collapses under Drake's feet or when Isaac is knocked over by an exploding shuttle.

However, fun is still my main concern in purchasing a game. If I know that I won't have fun with a game I won't purchase it. That's why I pass over JRPG's- they concentrate so much on cinematics and established trends that they stop being fun.

I suppose you could say that for me fun is the main concern, cinematic-ness is the second. A perfect example of this is "Enslaved: Odyssey to the West"- fun and cinematic, same with Red Dead Redemption and Mass Effect 2.

 

[Onyx Oblivion]

Well, Bayonetta is my GOTY, and I'm immune to "immersion", so guess my stance.

That said, I found GTA4 quite "fun".

 

[KEM10]

I believe you are thinking too much about it. While playing Uncharted 2 I didn't feel like I was being "dragged by the nose" as I was advancing the story. Yes, games are linear. In fact there are only about 5 non-linear games that I can think of and the collection of MMORPGs are just one of them. Granted, some games give you more leeway than others when it comes to how quickly you must start the next mission and how much time you have to do so, but if you just enjoy messing around in games then good for you. I like a little more narrative in my titles so I will be perfectly okay with the prerendered action scenes.

PS: Rent Uncharted 2, you may surprise yourself on the level of humor in there and how much you enjoy it.
Sully: I'm sweating like a hooker in church.
Nate: You brought a hooker to church?
Sully: Yea...why not?

 

[TPiddy]

Both can be good. Mass Effect, Red Dead, Alan Wake are good examples of strong narrative mixed with strong game play.

GTA IV tried to shove its narrative down the player's throat via the phone mechanism. It tried to give you that unparalleled freedom, but every time you tried to do something fun your fucking cousin or your girlfriend would call you up and harass you. Red Dead let you advance the narrative at your own pace. No timed missions, no deadlines, just go to the dot and do it, whenever you feel like it.

 

[Ashcrexl]

ok, first, uncharted is ALL about fun. the action sequences are intense, insanely fun, and not prerendered. they're scripted, and thats different. second, there are TONS of games that balance story and fun. bioshock, the PS2 GTA games, and shadow of the colossus come to mind and i actually really enjoyed quite a lot of the missions of GTA IV. im sorry you dont seem to have played any thus far, but you're pretty wrong about their existence.

(yes heavy rain isnt very fun, i'll give you that. but i still love it)

 

[Racecarlock]

Some people just enjoy a dramatic game. It's like movies: you don't make one to cater to everyone, you have different kinds for different audiences.

Ah, but I think you hit on my main problem here. More and more games are catering towards the cinematic audience, while there are less and less open world games.

 

[Racecarlock]

ok, first, uncharted is ALL about fun. the action sequences are intense, insanely fun, and not prerendered. they're scripted, and thats different. second, there are TONS of games that balance story and fun. bioshock, the PS2 GTA games, and shadow of the colossus come to mind and i actually really enjoyed quite a lot of the missions of GTA IV. im sorry you dont seem to have played any thus far, but you're pretty wrong about their existence.

(yes heavy rain isnt very fun, i'll give you that. but i still love it)

Ok, so I don't know shit about uncharted. The most I did know came from Yahtzee's reviews. But I did complete and enjoy bioshock and have played the PS2 GTA games and GTA IV. I'm glad you enjoyed the missions, but they were a bit too samey and uniform for me to enjoy the 30th mission that involved killing a bunch of dudes with a gun or staking someone out. I'll admit I got bored at some parts in bioshock, but the boredom would promptly disappear when I would shoot bees out of my hand at some unlucky splicer.

When I mentioned cinematic bullshit I was talking about those games where it says "hold (button) to get a cinematic view" and they sacrificed some fun feature for it. And GTA IV's police were overpowered on foot, and psychic when it comes to me damaging a car too much. Seriously, there I am on a secluded beach with no one around, but the instant I set a car on fire there, the police are right on top of me. It's not fun. It frustrated me so much that i've given up on on foot crime in the game and have opted to stay in my car and run over people and hit other cars so I can have the cellphone cheat menu open and scrolled to "Wanted Down" so I can get rid of the wanted star that keeps popping up, and also the health cheat so I can keep my car nice and tidy for my murderous rampages.

 

[Link XL1]

look, not all games have to be fun. its like genres, if you're looking for a platformer than dont play an rpg. if you're looking for fun, than dont play games that arent fun. fun games still exist, they havent disappeared. you just gotta go find them, instead of complaining about how the industry as a whole has found an interest in something different.

 

[Jedoro]

Some people just enjoy a dramatic game. It's like movies: you don't make one to cater to everyone, you have different kinds for different audiences.

Ah, but I think you hit on my main problem here. More and more games are catering towards the cinematic audience, while there are less and less open world games.

Maybe sales dictate that people want more cinematic games. It's not a problem, it's economics. People who want more fun games need to buy more, and get other people to buy them so there's an incentive to make more.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Ya there are alot of different types of games, but some games shouldn't get caught up in seriousness.
GTA 4 for example was lacking all sense of fun(that previous installments had), but wasn't deep enough to justify any of that.
Mafia 2 on the other hand had the right setting to be dead serious with the right immersion (sadly they shipped before finishing it, so it ended up with an empty world).

Another comparison could be Half Life vs Painkiller, both shooters but on whole different worlds.
While Half Life has story, depth, and full immersion, Painkiller has none of that, you get an assortment of ridiculous weapons and an ever greater pile of ridiculous opponents and just go ape shit crazy on them, and that is pure unapologetic fun.

I guess what I really want in games is consistency, create the right setting to fit it all in and I'm sold, but don't go mixing things that shouldn't be there.

 

[MiracleOfSound]

I think there's a place for both really.

Assassin's Creed 2 and Brotherhood got the balance just right in my view, plenty of great story to follow and endless random little encounters, happenings and things to find.

Fable 3 also has one amazingly fun mission that does this perfectly, let's just say it involves three men in hoods around a table.