What actually makes an RPG an RPG?

[veloper]

The term is almost meaningless.

CRPG: any game with a protagonist gaining experience points or some similar form of character progression, that isn't called something else instead.

Diablo is labeled an RPG, action-RPG to be precise, and it has none of the fancy choices or in-depth characterization most regulars here like their games to have.

Strategy games often have units gaining experience and becomeing more powerful, but are not called RPGs. Something similar is happening with online shooters that hand out perks: still FPS, not "RPG" or "RPS".

Bioshock? Good question. Definitely hits all the criteria for a roleplaying shooter.

 

[Echo136]

Games in which the story and characterisation take precedence over other aspects of gameplay, and the player is able to define and shape their own character to their liking and make meaningful choices, both in dialogue and action. Usually feature 'levelling-up' up or a similar method of persistent progression and performance-related statistics, though this isn't really necessary.

Not just numbers.

Well by that definition then Bioshock would be an RPG. You get to change the story in deep meaningful ways that affect gameplay. Theres no leveling up, but there is a camera in the game that when used on enemies, reveals their weaknesses and gives you bonuses to damage against them. Also, stations are found throughout Rapture that can be used to modify weapons to make them stronger and faster.

I think it somewhat proves the OP's point in that RPG is a very vague genre, unlike Shooter or RTS.

 

[SovietPanda]

I think that the main thing that distinguishes RPGs from most other games is their emphasis on character skill rather than player skill. Other than that, RPGs often seem to focus more on story (with choice), characters, exploration, crafting and trading rather than action.

This is genuinely one of the best answers to this question i think I've seen, and we all know this topic comes up regularly on these boards, I would just like to say well done to your sir.

 

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

The RPG label is very vague and broad. I don't think many people would deny that Final Fantasy, Dragon Age: Origins and Fallout 3 are all RPGs, but they are very different. Since everybody is talking about different things when they say "RPG" the term is virtually meaningless now. It's really unfortunate though that companies like BioWare [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/112502-BioWare-Co-Founder-RPGs-Are-Becoming-Less-Relevant] take this to mean that the genre is dying and that they want to move on to other things. I would really like if they would have continued making games like BG, NWN, ID and DA:O (in addition to Mass Effect and possibly others).

That's not what he said in the article. What he said is basically what you said: "RPG" has become a meaningless term. They have no reason to not stick with the game formula that made them successful.

 

[Rawne1980]

I love ROLL playing games
Where the characters attacks damages and movements are based on STATS and DICEROLLS.
DiceRPG are fun. My favorite example of these games are Xenosaga Ep2 and Final Fantasy 12.
(Dice Roll Playing Game)
Yup thats the new word i made of for the subgenre of RPGs that rely on stats and dicerolls.
DiceRPGs.

You just described tabletop gaming.

Most tabletop games rely on stats and dice rolls to do anything.

Warhammer as a whole IS based around dice throwing.

 

[Treblaine]

Depth.
(not some Bioshock pun, which isn't an RPG)

Why not? It's got so much character customisation, progression, upgrading and definitely one of the better story-lines I've seen in a video game that doesn't cross the line to be pretentious. One thing is for sure the game has way more depth than most of the games out there, I have several spreadsheets of optimising plasmids, ADAM, and tonic for maximum efficiency.

It's definitely not like Halo or Left 4 Dead where you just pick up what you find lying around.

Is it because it has a heavy combat element? Does that exclude Bioshock? I find it contradictory that an oft touted definition of ROLE PLAYING games is the requirement that when in combat the player must be pulled out of the role as much as possible; not to directly play your role in combat but order him or her what to do.

Not that you are saying that, but I have heard so many RPG fan skipped Bioshock for such reasons.

well... yeah it kinda is, it utilises RPG mechanical aspects- why would that not make it on some level an RPG?

EDIT= Though yes your right a focus on story is another important characteristic.

Isn't story more of an expectation than an actual defining characteristic of RPGs?

I'd say it's like expecting a First Person Shooter to have a poor story but then saying that is the definition.

A very long game with a very convoluted story does not make a game "story focused".

Story is much more of a defining character for Adventure Games, the point-and-click variety and I suppose also the joystick-wagglers like Heavy Rain. There, EVERYTHING is about the story progression. There is no combat, there is no climbing, racing or platforming or any stats/items/weapons to aid those. The only important items are those that progress the story and the story progression affects literally everything that happens to you.

RPG should be defined much more by playstyle than story mode/depth

 

[Confidingtripod]

for me an RPG is customizable, choose character race/ (in some cases)species, fighting style, personality, relationships with others, etc... A shooter is technically more of a role to be playing but RPG's for me have an aspect of the character being mine. many RPG's have a moral choice aspect that detracts from that or a lack of customisation EG: you HAVE to shoot people but you choose the gun, thats every shooter not an RPG and thats why I look to older RPG's: a mage must be protected from physical attack, a fighter CANT use a magic staff, you know, the fact that characters are more individual

 

[zehydra]

RPG is a reference to a gameplay style, that is the interaction of character and gameplay, sometimes mistakenly attributed to story and gameplay.

Since RPG = Role Playing Game, you can understand them as games where the player takes control of a blank-slate character, who the player makes all his decisions through. While there are a lot of RPGs that take advantage of the way blank-slate characters interact with other characters in a story narrative, that is not a defining characteristic of RPG.

Rather, the gameplay surrounds around the character, and the development of the character.


You can have amazing RPGs with little to preset story. Or you could look at it this way, in a great RPG, the story is unscripted, unpredictable.

 

[Togs]

Isn't story more of an expectation than an actual defining characteristic of RPGs?

I'd say it's like expecting a First Person Shooter to have a poor story but then saying that is the definition.

A very long game with a very convoluted story does not make a game "story focused".

Story is much more of a defining character for Adventure Games, the point-and-click variety and I suppose also the joystick-wagglers like Heavy Rain. There, EVERYTHING is about the story progression. There is no combat, there is no climbing, racing or platforming or any stats/items/weapons to aid those. The only important items are those that progress the story and the story progression affects literally everything that happens to you.

RPG should be defined much more by playstyle than story mode/depth

Wait.... what? What stance are you taking on this subject? Or are you just playing Master of Ceremonies?

 

[General BrEeZy]

damn it, i already saw someone post a picture of a rocket-propelled grenade!
...
well, i dont know RPG's enough to really take part in this, so have at it! xD

 

[Comieman]

Hmmm focus on character, ability to customize character (as in: moral choices, stats, looks, classes, races, fluffiness of fur and so on), and character driven story, but the last one is sort of vague, considering one man armies like Master Chief

 

[Treblaine]

Your ability to customize the way you play the game in some way. Equipment, stats, skills, levels/experience and the like are often referred to as "RPG-elements".

Games that are very storydriven and have RPG-elements are usually simply called "RPGs" while games that just have RPG-elements tacked on are called "FPS RPGs", "Action RPGs" and so on.

What is the difference between:

To just "have RPG-elements"

and

To "have RPG-elements tacked on"

What is tacking on? These aren't useful definitions; easy to allege, hard to dispute and impossible to prove.

What is a game with "tacked on" RPG elements, and what game 'really' has RPG elements?

I think that the main thing that distinguishes RPGs from most other games is their emphasis on character skill rather than player skill. Other than that, RPGs often seem to focus more on story (with choice), characters, exploration, crafting and trading rather than action.

Except that better fits the definition of Real Time or Turn Based Tactics genre and definitely contradicts the term "Role Playing".

TBT games is all about the strength and abilities of the characters, things like X-com and Jagged Alliance, your skill at aiming is irrelevant. It's all down to lady luck and how much the stats can stack the deck in your favour.


(PS: I play such games much like Zapp, only with possibly worse tactical thought and lower consideration for the lives of my men, women and war-elephants.)

Also, I can't see how you are "playing a role" if you are forced to have so little input to prevent any of your personal skill shining through. It's less role "playing" and more role "ordering". You aren't in the role.

However, if the stats were made HUGELY important and still gave you a lot of skill, I think that would be much better. So you can move and shoot, but you are either a massively huge and slow target that means you have to follow your skill strengths. But you still get the feeling of control, just within the limits of your character.

 

[Vibhor]

YAY RANT TIME!
Firstly, Ever game is an RPG IN THE NARRATIVE SENSE ONLY(If the game has no narrative ala Tetris then no it isn't) but a game is an RPG GAMEPLAY WISE if it has stats. Stats represent the skills of the character you are roleplaying and are not supposed to be dependent on you(the player). Seriously, If I hear the "Every game is an RPG/Games with stories are RPG/RPG don't need stats to be RPG" ever again, I will unleash a flurry of incomprehensible words that will probably get me warned.

 

[Joey245]

I believe Miss Capulet said it best:

"What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet."

If the game you're playing is fantastic, does it really matter what it's labeled as? Is it any concern what the people making genres call it, as long as it's stellar?

Let's look at some of my favorite games. Kingdom Hearts 2. Mass Effect 2. BioShock. Aquaria. Batman Arkham Asylum. Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess. Final Fantasy X.

All of these games are hard to nail down, genre-wise. Is BioShock an RPG with a shooter-based combat, or is it a shooter with RPG elements? Is Mass Effect 2 a Third person shooter with RPG elements, or is it an RPG with shooter combat? Is Batman: Arkham Aslyum an action game with exploratory elements, or is it an exploratory game with dynamic combat and stealth elements?

None of these can be defined by any one thing, nor do I personally care. I love all these games, even if they were classified as some hentai dating sim by mistake.

 

[Treblaine]

Isn't story more of an expectation than an actual defining characteristic of RPGs?

I'd say it's like expecting a First Person Shooter to have a poor story but then saying that is the definition.

A very long game with a very convoluted story does not make a game "story focused".

Story is much more of a defining character for Adventure Games, the point-and-click variety and I suppose also the joystick-wagglers like Heavy Rain. There, EVERYTHING is about the story progression. There is no combat, there is no climbing, racing or platforming or any stats/items/weapons to aid those. The only important items are those that progress the story and the story progression affects literally everything that happens to you.

RPG should be defined much more by playstyle than story mode/depth

Wait.... what? What stance are you taking on this subject? Or are you just playing Master of Ceremonies?

?

Master of Ceremonies?

I guess so, I always thought that is what the OP is supposed to be, right? I don't know what an RPG really is, I don't really have a stance. I made this thread to find enlightenment on this subject and that is where I am steering it.

I just know it can't be story as almost any type of game can have any type of story, and really who would say that a games like the uncharted series are more RPG just because they have really good storytelling though it is a lot more character driven than plot driven (unless you find the magical mcguffin story really that compelling).

probably said already, don't care though.

An RPG is driven by the actions of the player, while a non-RPG is driven by the actions of the environment and set pieces. A non-RPG can only be played one way, while an RPG is almost infinitely repeatable with (slightly) different results.

Is Silent Hill an RPG then? So many games can be played in such different ways for different outcomes.

I'm pretty sure a lot of well established RPG games break that rule with huge decisive events outside of the control or even influence of the player. I've seen more "non-RPG" games with multiple endings than "True RPGs". Definitely the Final Fantasy games.

 

[Robert Ewing]

A true RPG is a game where you take a said characters role, and play the game as if the game is your own world.

For example, if you're thirsty, you drink to keep yourself alive. You interact with people, the world you live in seems alive, as if it were real. But in a fantasy sort of way.

Y'know, it's hard to explain. But most games that claim to be RPG's, just aren't. Bioshock for example, I heard that was an RPG from somewhere. It's not, its and FPS.