What are our concerns about X-COM2?

[DoPo]

In DnD, you always have that 5% chance to crit-fail and nobody's complaining that the dice is fucking bullshit.

You've obviously hanged around a very different crowd. Not from what I have been, but from the norm in general. There are countless stereotypical little rituals and beliefs about dice in RPGs - some of them have bled into the general folklore about RNGs in video games but a lot comes from PnP background. To name some:

- NOBODY TOUCHES YOUR DICE. This is a big one and wide spread - touching another player's dice can, apparently, lead to all sorts of stuff, either jinxing it or stealing the luck or messing up the rolls or whatever.

- some people "charge" dice by setting them with 1 facing up, so a 20 (or whatever is the highest on that dice) is more likely to roll afterwards. Others "charge" dice by having them so the 20 faces up. And I'm not talking 5 minutes here - I'm talking days and weeks. I'm talking people who have a bunch of "charged" dice in reserve - when they need to make an important roll, they'll reach for a new one.

- some people, on the contrary, "punish" dice. It's similar to above, but it's sort of reactive, as opposed to proactive - if the die "misbehaves", it is left with 1 (or 20...) facing up until it "learns its lesson".

- before an actual roll, you need to roll few practice ones. It is to get the bad results out of the way.

- and in general, the belief that numbers are pre-determined is also wide spread - I'm talking actually predetermined - if you pushed the die by accident and it rolled a 20, it's the actual number you would have gotten on your next roll, thus that 20 was completely wasted by your thoughtless action. That sort of predetermined

- need to roll for movement? Use a red die - the red ones go faster.

And so on and so forth.

EDIT: Oh, forgot to also mention another popular belief about dice. It's the complete opposite of all others - if you try to use any rituals to please RNGesus, you will be striken with bad rolls. You have to do your best to avoid doing anything that could be considered "stacking good luck". I'm not talking just throwing the damn dice, it's actually going out of your way to make sure nobody has tried to "infuence" them.

 

[EyeReaper]

Umm... Have they confirmed that X-Com 2 is taking place in the US? That you can't choose where your base is this time?

Also, I don't have a problem with the swords. I can't be the only one who, after missing a shot at point blank 99% range, shouted "Oh for sweet nondenominational deity's sake just hit the fucker!" right?You shouldn't have to be a walking tank man to punch a grey midget.

 

[loa]

How petty.

Why don't you play something else if you love fewer options with more limited replayability, railroaded progression with exactly the same endgame all the time and scripted events so much.
I don't even know what to say to you if you're worried about the "story" more than the gameplay.

It's like criticizing a new binding of isaac game for the story and that there should be less randomness and fewer items.
You just don't get it.

 

[Gennadios]

X Com 2 will suck because of Firaxis, that's about it.

I don't think they can make complexity anymore. From Civ IV and up all their games had some kind of ultra simplistic board game like quality. The Civs have you chasing whatever victory condition you decided for before the game, with the Civ that provides bonuses for that given victory condition, and you just have your ideal path to victory right there.

Same with X Com, you had your character builds, you knew how spawns worked, and you kind of worked up the optimal path. Hell, somehow Firaxis programmers of all people didn't even know how to make a map generator. I wasn't expecting X-Com: Apocalypse levels of map quality, but what they gave was just gimped.

Anyway, X Com wasn't bad, but it was kind of over simplified and what passed for difficulty was just giving the player worse odds to work against. I don't think I would have liked it quite as much if it wasn't for the FPS XCOM making me go easy on it simply for it being a strategy game.

Oh, and the last two games Firaxis released were shit, so there's that little spectre of possibility.

 

[BeerTent]

In DnD, you always have that 5% chance to crit-fail and nobody's complaining that the dice is fucking bullshit.

You've obviously hanged around a very different crowd. Not from what I have been, but from the norm in general. There are countless stereotypical little rituals and beliefs about dice in RPGs - some of them have bled into the general folklore about RNGs in video games but a lot comes from PnP background. To name some: [...]

While I understand that nobody touches your dice. (This is one I believe in. I don't like sharing my dice.) I do roll it now and then, but that's just because I like rolling dice. Not looking to get the bad ones out it's system.

The rest of it sounds pretty crazy though. Like, I don't think I'd want to sit next to the guy with a bunch of 20's lined up.

The point that I was trying to make though, is that in every group I played... When we get that 1, We're like, "Oh shit... GM, Tell me what's up so we can plan around this."

When an XCOM player gets a 1, or subsequently misses a 95% shot, they lose their fucking shit if reddit is to be believed. Like, disproportionately fucked up. I've seen people suggest a simple system where it just tells you "Hit" or "Miss" and tries to disguise it so that it shows percentages. (Like every shot under 70 is a miss.) I'm thinking that people trying to remove the randomness from XCOM, are probably playing the wrong game. They complain that they shouldn't need a backup plan, because it's more "tactical" if you know if it's going to land a hit.

Fuck'em. 'S what I think about those systems. Keep the 95% misses, and don't bring back the hand-holding AI.

 

[Gretha Unterberg]

8) The Visitors are our Friends!.

What other story could they use? The "red faction" trope is used just as hard. We're both old, so we've heard just about every story in the book. What if XCOM Won the 1st game? What would XCOM be doing in the 2nd game? Unless we went Terror from the deep, I don't see any any we could use the XCOM IP properly again in videogaming because you need to factor the fact that the we need to build up and get stronger over time. Imagine if you started a new LW game, and had all of your research maxed out at the start. They need to avoid that. What's a better way than having XCOM Lose? I'm genuinely curious! You know that if we introduced a new alien overlord race, people are just going to shit on it. What could be more powerful than plasma? We've already got laser beams, rockets, and railguns.

At the end of it all... I'm just getting tired of playing the same landings and abductions and the same fucking burger joint map over and over. I welcome a graphics upgrade, a new "story", and procedurally generated maps. The fact that they didn't have a different map every level instead of a handful of premade maps in EU blows my mind.

The same way Civilization 5 invalidated all my Civilization 4 playthroughs by resetting everything back to the stone age. It's like they were shitting all over my previous work.

God damn it Firaxis.

I think its clever.
Im X-com you always start as the underdog with impossible odds that seem to be stacked against you.
You don't want to tell the exact same invasion story again,
and neither do you want start with the space marines X-com was fielding , during the end of enemy unknown.

With a continuse canon you get shoehorned reasons why aliencs attack (again) , why you start underfunded (again),understaffed (again) and with low-tech gear (why, if you have a room full of plasma rocket launchers?).


With an alternative reality (What if the invasion succeed? What if X-com became small scale resistance force?).
It can the same underdog-against-all-odds-story, but different enough from the original story to be fresh.
And it comes with a believable reasons why you are fielding a tagrag bunch that is reverse engineering looted weapons instead of a Firestorm fleet.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

When an XCOM player gets a 1, or subsequently misses a 95% shot, they lose their fucking shit if reddit is to be believed. Like, disproportionately fucked up. I've seen people suggest a simple system where it just tells you "Hit" or "Miss" and tries to disguise it so that it shows percentages. (Like every shot under 70 is a miss.) I'm thinking that people trying to remove the randomness from XCOM, are probably playing the wrong game. They complain that they shouldn't need a backup plan, because it's more "tactical" if you know if it's going to land a hit.

Fuck'em. 'S what I think about those systems. Keep the 95% misses, and don't bring back the hand-holding AI.

They do. We had people losing their shit on these forums over the "excessive randomness" of XCOM.

Much like Blood Bowl, XCOM is a game of risk mitigation. The people constantly ending up on the wrong side of "random" just aren't very good at the game.

 

[renegade7]

The good news is that the game is going to be fully moddable so you can take out whatever BS eventually manages to slip in. XCOM Enemy Unknown had some irritating stuff in it too that Long War took care of, I can't imagine it will take long to do the same for XCOM 2.

I say, keep the random. You can still miss on a 95% and you can still hit on a 1%. In DnD, you always have that 5% chance to crit-fail and nobody's complaining that the dice is fucking bullshit. I like how nothing is absolute because it requires you to think instead of just rolling the dice. It forces you to plan ahead, and keep specific solders at the ready. Yeah, my team all have 95%'s. Okay, the engineer can take the shot. But what if he misses? That's still a possibility. I need the gunner at the ready to suppress. Every time you use a scout... It's not risk-free. Lightening reflexes is not absolute. Complacency kills, and no other game will cram this any further down your throat. Doesn't matter what studio made XCOM. Have a backup plan, and don't be comfortable making 75% decisions.

That, and it's really the only thing that can keep players from discovering strategies to, for lack of a better word, bullshit the game mechanics. There can't be any perfect option that nullifies all possibility of failure.

Plus, it's more realistic. Some things may seem rather certain in life, but nothing's ever truly, 100% under control and predictable. It's why people consider "adaptability" to be such an important character trait.

 

[legend forge]

Since they announced the entire first game was basically non-canon and the aliens took over the world, I wrote this game off. It won't be good. There are so many red flags on this game that truly anyone who buys it is part of the problem.
Its gonna' go the way of Starcraft 2. Launch week is great, then absolutely everyone forgets about the crap plot and terrible characters.

Honestly just go replay Xcom Enemy Unknown. Its the superior game.

He said, having never played the game.

Seriously, at least wait for a review to drop before writing the game off entirely.

 

[RedRockRun]

I hope it's not too personal and character driven. One thing I like about XCOM is how you were just The Commander, and you had troops who fought and died but were otherwise just soldiers. You researched aliens and their technology to overcome the invasion just like what an actual government agency would do, and no drama occurred outside the actual global conflict. That kind of disconnect is something I don't see much of in modern gaming, and I found it very refreshing in a world dominated by intense character dramas.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

I hope it's not too personal and character driven. One thing I like about XCOM is how you were just The Commander, and you had troops who fought and died but were otherwise just soldiers. You researched aliens and their technology to overcome the invasion just like what an actual government agency would do, and no drama occurred outside the actual global conflict. That kind of disconnect is something I don't see much of in modern gaming, and I found it very refreshing in a world dominated by intense character dramas.

I thought X-Com: EU struck the absolute perfect balance between actually having characters, but not letting them overwhelm the game. One criticism I have of a lot of large-scale, 4x type strategy games is that they are just so cold and impersonal. You're making these big decisions, like what to build or what to research, but it just feels like making changes to an Excel spreadsheet. You might have Generals or Governors or whatever with names, but that's about it.

Little touches in EU, like Dr. Vahlen saying "yes that does seem to be our most pressing concern" when you pick a research project, or Dr. Shen saying "I'll get the Foundry warmed up" when you pick a new foundry project, sort of reminded you that, even though you're "the Commander", and you have this war to win, your war is still being fought and won by Soldiers, Engineers, Scientists, etc. That just gave everything a great sense of realism and desire to win, for me. Here's hoping X-Com 2 manages to strike the balance as well.

 

[Pseudonym]

My main concern is that it won't be significantly different from Xcom: EU and/or possibly that it will just be mediocre. And the thing is, I only need a few great strategy games to play. A mediocre one will just sit in my library not being played after the first couple of hours. A clone of a game I already like more will befall the same fate. Firaxis, that last game you made, Civ Beyond Earth, Xcom 2 needs to be better than that.

 

[Dalsyne]

My biggest concern about XCOM2 is that it won't be Long War enough.

A concern with which everyone who's played Long War can undoubtedly agree.

 

[PBMcNair]

Umm... Have they confirmed that X-Com 2 is taking place in the US? That you can't choose where your base is this time?

Also, I don't have a problem with the swords. I can't be the only one who, after missing a shot at point blank 99% range, shouted "Oh for sweet nondenominational deity's sake just hit the fucker!" right?You shouldn't have to be a walking tank man to punch a grey midget.

This guy gets swords. Xenonauts added a basic melee bash to the x-com formula, and on my second campaign, I'd captured 2 aliens before I even unlocked stun weapons. Options are good.

 

[Oroboros]

A few things about it worry me...the swords and drones. I'm hoping that they won't be 'class features' - so not everyone can use melee or act as a drone operator etc.

I'm also hoping that the drone's won't be taking the place of the SHIVs and that melee won't be too powerful...melee should be a dangerous endeavor IMO, last result sort of thing. Jagged Alliance 2 is one of my favorite games in the genre, and I think they got it right.

Actually I think they could learn a lot of things from that game that would improve it.

 

[stormtrooper9091]

My biggest issue is that they'll try to do a lot and not do much. Beyond Earth was never properly tested in depth, it was conceived for a more casual crowd and it bombed because it lost its appeal with the more serious Civvers, like myself.

Same might happen with XCOM 2. All bark and no bite

And I agree, the game was never and *should* never be about characters. Part of the fun is having a random soldier become a circumstantial war hero and end up with a crack team that's been through thick and thin, like Zemalf did in that most awesome LP ever

 

[Phil the Nervous]

7) Stealth Zepplin?.th sensors. "Fake transponder?" If the aliens were dumb enough to fall for that then they never would won the war.

Ooh! ooh! I know this one!!

The aliens can't invent, at least not in any consistent meaningful way. What they do instead is go from species to species using their already impressive genetic engineering skills to panic and uplift existing races then integrate them into their forces and take any tech as loot. That's why humans were able to win, we adapted to them on a technological basis faster then they could overwhelm us.

SPECULATION!!!
With Shen gone (I'm guessing) no one else could handle the technical requirements to create the hyperwave relay required to trace a spaceship and the aliens aren't likely to hand out the beacons cause those plucky X-COM renegades would totally get their hands it and use their shiny new space zeppelin (totally stealing this!) to invade the alien homeworld!!!
END SPECULATION!!!

And the gremlin drones are optional, you can attach them to their controllers for (as-of-yet) unknown bonuses.

Edit: My concerns are the lack of MECs, and the possibility of real aliens reading Firaxis forums and deciding to preemptively invade.

 

[ZeroFarks]

Ooh! ooh! I know this one!!

The aliens can't invent, at least not in any consistent meaningful way. What they do instead is go from species to species using their already impressive genetic engineering skills to panic and uplift existing races then integrate them into their forces and take any tech as loot. That's why humans were able to win, we adapted to them on a technological basis faster then they could overwhelm us.

Kind of like "The Race" in Harry Turtledove's "Invasion" series? I actually like this idea. In XCOM we certainly did see that the aliens liked messing with DNA a lot, and barely bothered with technology upgrades at all (they added more armor to two units - big whoop). We got the entire line of MEC suits and they got a Sectoid in a power-harness, still using the same plasma weapons as every other alien from day one.

You may be on to a really cool idea, there. Indeed, stealth technology might be beyond them simply by being a technology and not something related to genetics. And the idea of humans learning & developing new tech at a much faster pace than the aliens has always been part of the XCOM mythos as well.

Well played on this one. You've given a explanation that I can buy into.

 

[Diablo2000]

2) Dr.Vahlen goes Kerrigan on us.

Wasn't one of the main plot points of XCOM the fact that the Aliens wanted to mutate humanity to improve them or something like that? What exactly would be wrong with them, you know, actually doing that?
Besides, that's assuming they do go that route, which is kinda hard to tell at this oint.

I hope it's possible to kill her with explosives for maximum karma\irony\lulz if it does happen. If there's a archievement for it, even better.

My concern it's that we won't get nice things like mechs or body modifications that Enemy Within had. It was so much fun go around punching aliens throught walls with mechs.