What are these people bitching about?

[THAC0]

It's not just a bunch of "jobless hippies" and those that think so ought to educate themselves rather than listen to rhetoric found in the dregs of network news. There are very hardworking people in those demonstrations, as well as those who aren't finding work.

I'm not necessarily trying to come up with excuses for lazy journalism (I'm not American, so I'm not actually seeing the local coverage anyway), but would you not agree that the nature of the coverage on the news isn't exactly surprising given the lack of a coherent message coming from the protesters?

the message has been pretty clear since day 1 of the first protest. they know exactly what they are demanding. the media is really doing its job on this one. If you assume that its job is to protect its business interests.

 

[Jimothy Sterling]

It's not just a bunch of "jobless hippies" and those that think so ought to educate themselves rather than listen to rhetoric found in the dregs of network news. There are very hardworking people in those demonstrations, as well as those who aren't finding work.

I'm not necessarily trying to come up with excuses for lazy journalism (I'm not American, so I'm not actually seeing the local coverage anyway), but would you not agree that the nature of the coverage on the news isn't exactly surprising given the lack of a coherent message coming from the protesters?

The message is pretty coherent to me. I'd say it's unsurprising given the lack of integrity in corporate-owned network news. They tried not reporting on OWS for the first few weeks, until it got too big to ignore, then they set hard at work painting them all as jobless, drug-taking hippies, which couldn't be further from the truth considering many people of different working backgrounds have joined together.

OWS is doing what Americans are supposed to be famous for -- not taking shit and letting people know when something's fucked up. They're being the kind of Americans I was led to believe inhabited this country, rather than the crawling, corporate suck-ups I've seen way too many of. To me, the message is simple -- people who caused this financial crises need to man up and pay money back into the society they benefited from, and people who worked hard and didn't do anything to cause the recession shouldn't pay for their mistakes.

I dig the shit outta that message.

 

[thestormsguardian]

no i don't wish to have that mans leg removed not do i wish to 'let him die' as it was eloquently put i'm simply saying that to

and in my personal opinion its also about the sense of entitlement we as a nation are developing. i cringe when ever i hear about the 'right' to health care or abortion or my personal favorite the 'right' to own a home which got us into this mess. while i'm slightly open to some healthcare reform universal health care is not the way to go. but many things people nowadays say they have a 'right' to is in fact a privileged that should be worked towards and that honestly not everyone will achieve.

What about a guy who works two jobs, let's say waiting tables and cleaning windows. If he's not waiting, he's cleaning. He does this for about ten hours a day, sometimes more. He doesn't earn great money but he's working his absolute ass off. He went to college, and he tried his hardest, but he just wasn't as academically gifted as others. Still, he's never been out of work and done what he can to keep a roof over his head.

Despite working as hard as anybody else, he can't afford health insurance. One day he goes to work, gets hit by a car, and boom!

I guess we better saw that leg off, right? Dude didn't face up to his responsibility and walk into that high paying office job they're handing out to absolutely everybody, right? Let him die, as they recently chanted in the GOP debates. Let him die.

no i don't wish for this man to die or have his leg removed, but health care is not something that should be provided to everyone by the government. and as i said it was my opinion and not necessarily right or wrong but mine. and as for the high paying office job, i never mentioned that though i find it interesting that was your assumption.

 

[jawakiller]

Brief version: They broke. End of story.
Extended: The bankers are making shitloads and the college students, hippies and "other" want it.
Russian: Dirty capitalist dog take all ze muney, I can't buy muy vodka and sonya keeps bitching.
Conspiracist: The bankers and the government are in on a huge deal that could destroy america as we know it.
Bankers: WTF guys? This is our fucking money!
KKK version: Blacks did it.
Neo-Nazis: It's the stinking jews.
Old people: What?
Gamers: Somebody say Skyrim? No? Well fuck.
Intellectual: You don't understand... Stupid day laborer.
French version:.... "Shut up france"- Everybody
Media:... (we're paid not to talk)... (sponsors)...
College Professor: Well it's really about them starting to... [everybody fell asleep]
Environmentalist: Stop ruining the envir-ah what? We're not rallying because of that? Aww man.
Obama: Not my fault.
Bush: Not mine either.
Jews: Why are we being blamed? Hey, fuck you Neo-Nazis!
Neo-Nazis: No, fuck you guys.
Theodore Roosevelt: [no fucks given]
Black People: You put the kkk's comment up here?
Me: Uh, yeah?
Black people: Not cool.
Scottish: Pass me a pint laddie.
Bartender: Well I think it's congresses fault.
Random Hippie: Peeeeace.
The sci-fi conspiracist: Aliens.
Second Hippie: Legalize weed, man! Wha?
Congress: STFU hippies. Aren't you guys extinct or something?
Chuck Norris: [could not be reached for comment]
Scot, again: Laddie, where be muy bloody pint!
Canadians:... Oh, it's our turn to talk?
Deaf guy: ...
Mexicans: [nobody cared to interview them]
Venezuela: So, are you going after our highest paying customers? Dude, fuck. We like the bankers.
Cocaine dealer: yeah. What they said.


Me: I hope I offended everyone in existence who matters (and even a few who don't). If you have any more questions, I recommend you do some research or, if you really have nothing better to do (like stab yourself with a rusty spork), you could go to the protest and see for yourself.
Scot: So do I get muy pint now?
Me: I don't have any money on me.
Scot: Ye fuckin idiot!

 

[Burningsok]

Brief version: They broke. End of story.
Extended: The bankers are making shitloads and the college students, hippies and "other" want it.
Russian: Dirty capitalist dog take all ze muney, I can't buy muy vodka and sonya keeps bitching.
Conspiracist: The bankers and the government are in on a huge deal that could destroy america as we know it.
Bankers: WTF guys? This is our fucking money!
KKK version: Blacks did it.
Neo-Nazis: It's the stinking jews.
Old people: What?
Gamers: Somebody say Skyrim? No? Well fuck.
Intellectual: You don't understand... Stupid day laborer.
French version:.... "Shut up france"- Everybody
Media:... (we're paid not to talk)... (sponsors)...
College Professor: Well it's really about them starting to... [everybody fell asleep]
Environmentalist: Stop ruining the envir-ah what? We're not rallying because of that? Aww man.
Obama: Not my fault.
Bush: Not mine either.
Jews: Why are we being blamed? Hey, fuck you Neo-Nazis!
Neo-Nazis: No, fuck you guys.
Theodore Roosevelt: [no fucks given]
Black People: You put the kkk's comment up here?
Me: Uh, yeah?
Black people: Not cool.
Scottish: Pass me a pint laddie.
Bartender: Well I think it's congresses fault.
Random Hippie: Peeeeace.
The sci-fi conspiracist: Aliens.
Second Hippie: Legalize weed, man! Wha?
Congress: STFU hippies. Aren't you guys extinct or something?
Chuck Norris: [could not be reached for comment]
Scot, again: Laddie, where be muy bloody pint!
Canadians:... Oh, it's our turn to talk?
Deaf guy: ...
Mexicans: [nobody cared to interview them]
Venezuela: So, are you going after our highest paying customers? Dude, fuck. Just fuck We like the bankers.
Cocaine dealer: yeah. What they said.


Me: I hope I offended everyone in existence who matters (and even a few who don't). If you have any more questions, I recommend you do some research or, if you really have nothing better to do (like stab yourself with a rusty spork), you could go to the protest and see for yourself.
Scot: So do I get muy pint now?
Me: I don't have any money on me.
Scot: Ye fuckin idiot!

You have won the thread...

 

[MrHero17]

So I'm just wondering what exactly the people on Wall Street are bitching about, from what I've heard it's mostly people who don't have jobs who have nothing better to do or people who DO have jobs bitching about there being no jobs and that it's all just a waste of time. Could someone explain this whole mess to me?

I always looked at it as the Hipster movement of 2011.

I want to punch every single one in the face.

Smug fucks.

You want to hit him, go ahead.

Maybe you can track this guy down too and kick his ass.

[youtube.com/watch?v=N9HvJhilJzo]
In case my emmbed sucks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9HvJhilJzo

Fun with polls time

Just as a parting comment, what has been gained by the increase in income inequality over the last few decades?

 

[Inner Pickle]

Seriously, the ignorance on these threads recently is astounding. I'm ashamed of our species.

 

[THAC0]

i am saddened by the way Americans take pride in their willingness to defend a system that hurts them.

if someone points out how unfair it is, or how the rich take advantage of everyone else, or how the political system only serves business interests, or how the media is useless for actual news, of how the environment is being destroyed, or how education should be respected, then you are clearly wrong and they will tell you to get a job before they punch you in the face.

you are more likely to have a rational argument with a drug addict by suggesting they clean themselves up.

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

Currently enrolled in a business ethics course, so I'll leave these tidbits of knowledge for anyone who wants them.
1. Americans are far more likely to blame an individual's economic shortcomings on the individual, citing lack of skill/effort, poor work habits, etc. (71% of Americans, as opposed to 40% of Europeans)
2. Western Europeans are far more likely to blame the government for their economic shortcomings, citing a flawed system.
3. Because of the above, and because the majority believes that redistribution favors minorities, they support the current political system.
4. Because of this fact, an American is twice as likely to be poor than someone in Western Europe.
5. While there are in fact many jobs for those willing to work them, few provide a living wage, creating a situation where many full-time employees still cannot afford basic necessities.
6. Average salary for a Japanese CEO? 300k.
7. Contrary to beliefs about the comparative well-being of America's poor, 20 year-old US males rank 36th in the world for life expectancy. Women and infants rank 21st.

While all this is true, those protesters aren't exactly stepping up with solutions. Thus, it all comes across as an exercise in futility, as this is time that could be spent actually furthering their careers. Heck, if there truly are thousands of them, statistically, a few of them are bound to succeed.

For reference, my statistics were pulled from "Business Ethics: A Textbook with Cases (Seventh Edition)", by William H. Shaw.

I want to add something about number 6.

All people earning more then 2,500,000 yen in Japan, and remember 1 yen is 1 cent, have to register with the government and their earnings are public knowledge. With that being said, there are a lot of CEOs we do not know the pay check of for one simple reason: They fall below this threshold and 'didn't make the list.' Even then, the CEOs of massive names, such as Sony and Nintendo, get paid only a few tens of millions (yen). Once converted you can count the millions using just one hand and often have a finger or two left over. Oh, and they took pay cuts of more then 10-15% when the recession started to make profits dip even slightly. You know, while the CEOs in the US where granting themselves millions in bonuses while their companies filed for bankrupts or received massive government handouts....

Yeah, I love to use the contrast between CEOs in Japan or even Europe when compared to their counterparts. Why? Number 1 on your list!

I am sick and tired of the US people seeming to believe that having lots of money means you are smart and talented and deserving of all that money. They just love to view everyone with money as 'self made millionaires' as each and every US citizen thinks if they believe it enough then it will happen to them. This mentality creates all sorts of problem, the least being that they are reluctant to do anything that might 'hurt the rich' because they believe they are either part of the rich if they make more then 100,000 a year or are just shy of creating the 'next big thing,' winning the lotto or some other fantasy that they will make millions with. Which is that thing we mistake for irony as the only place they will see that sort of money is in fantasies.

They defend these pieces of shit billionaire families that make our problems worse because... hell, money makes them better people, right?

Wow... you brought something out in me there.

In short, talent means squat when it comes to wealth. The vast majority with the most wealth where born into families already rich. Their family connections and wealth ensured they could slack off in the finest schools, do sweet fuck all with their lives and then be handed a job by 'a family friend.' These are far too many of these people in the upper class and yet people will defend the whole bunch of them with the argument that they 'earned' their position.

It really is not surprising these very same people then sign off on the largest pay hikes and bonus schemes. After all growing up with freedom to piss all over even the law and get away with it, with all past screw ups covered over by family connections or even rewarded for them, it only stands to reason these people turn out as they do. They simply believe they deserve those pay checks and bonuses, all because of their last name and blood line makes it so.

And the US people... cheer them on! They seem quite willing to say so-and-so family deserve the billions they have because they are 'skilled business people doing a hard job.' At least, they say that right up to the point they loose their homes and jobs in one scam or another, usually simply because the company needed to cut millions of jobs to artificially inflate the bottom line for a single quarter and stop the share holders from complaining about the CEOs new private 'company jet.'

Then the amazing thing happens, the rest of the people turn around and blame the person who just lost his job for being unemployed.

 

[AD-Stu]

To me, the message is simple -- people who caused this financial crises need to man up and pay money back into the society they benefited from, and people who worked hard and didn't do anything to cause the recession shouldn't pay for their mistakes.

FWIW, that's just one of the many messages that are coming from the protesters - there are others that are pushing general anti-capitalist messages equally strongly, and others again that are pushing environmental messages.

So while I appreciate that you've found a message you identify with, you've got to admit that the overall message coming from the protests is far from coherent and that all of them (including the one you mention above) contain no real plans for action or specific starting points from which to affect change.

Rightly or wrongly, until those coherent messages and plans for action are put together, the media coverage will continue to focus on what gets people watching the news (ie: conflicts with police etc).

 

[SonicKoala]

They are hippies. Dirty, whiney, pathetic hippies who expect the rich to pay for them.
I have zero respect for any of them. So they are not part of the 1%, whose fucking fault is that? They had the same chances, they did not go for it so they have no right to whine.

Besides, they piss me off talking about how bad they have it while they have food, clean water, homes, medicines and many luxuries people in other countries could not possibly dream of.

But I guess that saying "We are the lower 99% of the top 25% of the worlds population!" just does not have the same ring to it. But then whiney peoples complaints rarely do when you phrase it correctly.

Basically they are pissed off that the top 1% is much much richer than they are while ignoring that they are much much richer than 75% of the worlds population.

Actually, its more like 10%.

So yeah, saying "We are in the 99% of the not-super-rich of America" doesn't hold much water in light of the fact that if a person has a steady job, running water, a steady diet, stable shelter that protects from the elements, and ANY amount of money in the bank, they are in the top 10% of the wealthiest people in the world.

What's your point? That since these people have it "pretty okay as long as you base "wealth" on a very select number of factors and completely ignore the context in which these factors exist", then they have no right to protest against the profound social, economic, and political injustices taking place in their society and should just go home and shut up? I must disagree with that sentiment.

These people live in the wealthiest country in the world, and yet tens of millions of them live below the poverty line. There is nothing fair about that.

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

To me, the message is simple -- people who caused this financial crises need to man up and pay money back into the society they benefited from, and people who worked hard and didn't do anything to cause the recession shouldn't pay for their mistakes.

FWIW, that's just one of the many messages that are coming from the protesters - there are others that are pushing general anti-capitalist messages equally strongly, and others again that are pushing environmental messages.

So while I appreciate that you've found a message you identify with, you've got to admit that the overall message coming from the protests is far from coherent and that all of them (including the one you mention above) contain no real plans for action or specific starting points from which to affect change.

Rightly or wrongly, until those coherent messages and plans for action are put together, the media coverage will continue to focus on what gets people watching the news (ie: conflicts with police etc).

I can't argue, the biggest reason why I have ignored this whole protest and considered the people within idiots is because of what you have stated above. There is no direction to this group and while they have all the fire and drive they need... without direction it won't go anywhere. I can not honestly support a group of people, even those with the best intentions and clearly seeing that there is a problem, if they do not have focus to put all that energy to use. The base core values are there still, the whole 'rich getting richer while we get poorer' thing but no one has honestly come forth to lead this group towards some productive future.

I can see this going two ways:
People get demoralized and disenchanted by the whole mess and drift away not to take part in politics the rest of their lives.
A handful of 'rogue elements' come forth and nudges people towards the whole idea of burning down wall street.

The chance of demoralization is much higher, but I can't rule out the possibility that someone starts a riot by attacking the police. Seen it happen a great deal of times, and often find out later that some of the people in pictures throwing rocks are the police. Cointelpro never really disappeared and, if you had the same mind I do but less morality, Cointelpro on the wall street protesters could be useful in passing laws that further protect corporate interests.

Not that I don't mind that, we still have about 1 year to get the extra-territorial ruling that grands corporate bodies 'fiefdoms' before the sixth world begins... hell I am still young enough to run the shadows in twenty years.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

They are hippies. Dirty, whiney, pathetic hippies who expect the rich to pay for them.
I have zero respect for any of them. So they are not part of the 1%, whose fucking fault is that? They had the same chances, they did not go for it so they have no right to whine.

Besides, they piss me off talking about how bad they have it while they have food, clean water, homes, medicines and many luxuries people in other countries could not possibly dream of.

But I guess that saying "We are the lower 99% of the top 25% of the worlds population!" just does not have the same ring to it. But then whiney peoples complaints rarely do when you phrase it correctly.

Basically they are pissed off that the top 1% is much much richer than they are while ignoring that they are much much richer than 75% of the worlds population.

Actually, its more like 10%.

So yeah, saying "We are in the 99% of the not-super-rich of America" doesn't hold much water in light of the fact that if a person has a steady job, running water, a steady diet, stable shelter that protects from the elements, and ANY amount of money in the bank, they are in the top 10% of the wealthiest people in the world.

What's your point? That since these people have it "pretty okay as long as you base "wealth" on a very select number of factors and completely ignore the context in which these factors exist", then they have no right to protest against the profound social, economic, and political injustices taking place in their society and should just go home and shut up? I must disagree with that sentiment.

These people live in the wealthiest country in the world, and yet tens of millions of them live below the poverty line. There is nothing fair about that.

I never meant to imply that sentiment. I was only correcting the numbers in Cheshire's post.

I actually meant to continue my post by saying that just because there is a bigger problem (millions of people die from hunger every day so most Americans should be grateful for what they have) DOESN'T mean that the disparity between the rich and the poor ISN'T a problem and that people who believe that people who believe it is a problem SHOULDN'T protest.

I just wanted to keep my reply short and not make Cheshire feel as though I was antagonizing him. So much for that...

 

[drumguy818]

I think Occupy Wall Street can be summed up in 4 words: Brooklyn Rage! BROOKLYN RAGE!!!

 

[Death God]

The "1%" is people with jobs, money, and power and the 99% don't have one or the other. Kind of stupid approach but nice idea behind it. More jobs and less money spent on frivolous things.

 

[SonicKoala]

I never meant to imply that sentiment. I was only correcting the numbers in Cheshire's post.

I actually meant to continue my post by saying that just because there is a bigger problem (millions of people die from hunger every day so most Americans should be grateful for what they have) DOESN'T mean that the disparity between the rich and the poor ISN'T a problem and that people who believe that people who believe it is a problem SHOULDN'T protest.

I just wanted to keep my reply short and not make Cheshire feel as though I was antagonizing him. So much for that...

My mistake. I suppose I did make a number of rather broad assumptions in my reply; I apologize if I came off as hostile or overly argumentative.

 

[brom0220]

The problem with Occupy Wall Street is that there is no clear set of aims. The main theme of the problems they are addressing are that A) Lack of regulation has led to a corrupt banking system, which played a big part in the economic crisis. B) The banking system has too big an influence on government policy, meaning that not enough is being dome to prevent the same mistakes and corrupt practices that fueled the economic crisis from happening again. Underlying all this is growing resentment towards the whole ideal of American society that 'If person A has more money than person B, that can only be because person A has worked harder, meaning that person B is a deadbeat and deserves no support or sympathy whatsoever.' This ideal is woefully out of touch and has led to America having a completely inadequate and unfair system of social support.

Basically, all the ne'er do well's on Wall Street and in Washington have been screwing with the people for too long and they've had enough. However, what they actually propose to do about it is unclear.

So I'm just wondering what exactly the people on Wall Street are bitching about, from what I've heard it's mostly people who don't have jobs who have nothing better to do or people who DO have jobs bitching about there being no jobs and that it's all just a waste of time. Could someone explain this whole mess to me?

I always looked at it as the Hipster movement of 2011.

I want to punch every single one in the face.

Smug fucks.

You want to hit him, go ahead.

Maybe you can track this guy down too and kick his ass.

In case my emmbed sucks http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9HvJhilJzo

Fun with polls time

Just as a parting comment, what has been gained by the increase in income inequality over the last few decades?

These posters summed it up quite effectively. I hope these protests are actually effective though, most people don't have the money to buy the political power necessary to fix the country, and those that do are fine with it the way it is, and in some cases want to keep it that way.

I don't understand this idea that the poor are only poor because they didn't work hard enough and the wealthy are only wealthy because they did. I'm willing to bet that the old man in the picture above worked harder throughout his life and contributed more to society than The Situation or Snooki did. And I know without a doubt that the marine in that video did. Guess which of those people are millionaires? At least The Situation and Snooki didn't get their millions by screwing over their fellow Americans though, unlike some on Wall Street, or some CEO s of corporations. Yeah, that's not fair and that's part of why these people are protesting.

This should be enough to end the thread, but I doubt it.

 

[asinann]

Corporations say they need tax cuts to have enough money to create jobs, while they're outsourcing most of their labor for cheaper production. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Also a lot of big companies are asking for a tax holiday so they can bring in trillions of dollars without having to pay taxes on it.

The corporate tax rate in the US is 35%, one of the highest in the world. But the only thing taxed is profits, and there are ways to write off parts of those profits (like donating it to political campaigns.) In fact there are enough write-offs that one of the world's largest companies (General Electric) got a $2,000,000,000 (that's billion, with a B) tax refund last year. But they need lower taxes to create jobs. And by create jobs I mean stow the money away to pay massive bonuses to their executives and stockholders.

Currently US companies are hoarding cash (they have record profits and liquidity right now) while complaining that they have no money to hire people.

 

[BeerTent]

[...]

[...]

See here's the thing, what do you want people to do? The world ain't gonna change cause people are bitching about it on the internets, and it ain't changing cause everything else is going to hell.

This is people, not just on wallstreet or wherever you saw them, all across not only the country, but the world coming out of there god damn houses, putting themselves into ACTUAL harm, may it be police, weather or whatever else gets thrown their way.

This is the only way, people think they can change their country, their world peacefully, with a movement like this. Probably about 30000-60000 people have been out protesting with the same movements, the same messages across the world together and more just keep coming. union and anti war protests and college walkout joining them it's growing faster.

How many people is it going to take to change the world without violence or at least friggen listen? 100,000? 500,000? hell it takes 1 guy to make everyone take off their shoes at an airport out of violence to change the god damn world!

That's the good part.

The bad part is not a single one of them knows what the fuck they're doing. You go around to one of these protests and half of them are there to pick-up or simply say "Fuckin' evil corps, mann~" like some doped up teenager. The problem here is that half of them are retarded dancing shirtless while wearing a gas-mask to whatever music the people on drums are playing. Again, killing whatever message they had while looking like modern day hippies. To answer your opening question. I want them organized. Not just balled together and ready for when tear gas flies their way. (Which it won't, because the RCMP also knows they're harmless and pointless.)

Now, if these people sat down, Got fucking organized, [http://api.viglink.com/api/click?format=go&key=6da47bc4afaf3146dd0f75392c91e0f2&loc=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.escapistmagazine.com%2Fforums%2Fread%2F18.318480-What-are-these-people-bitching-about%3Fpage%3D2%23comment_form&v=1&libid=1318932563286&out=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.care2.com%2Fcauses%2Foccupy-wall-street-issues-first-official-declaration.html&ref=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.escapistmagazine.com%2Fprofiles%2Fview_message%2F9434558&title=The%20Escapist%20%3A%20Forums%20%3A%20Off-topic%20Discussion%20%3A%20What%20are%20these%20people%20bitching%20about%3F&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.care2.com%2Fcauses%2Foccupy-wall-street-issues-first-official-declaration.html&jsonp=vglnk_jsonp_13189328840741] and went with one message, one meaning, and worked together. I'd be more inclined to associate myself with them if I were also jobless.

I don't know about anywhere else. But that's the first image they gave to me. Dancing, to drums, in cold-ass October.

 

[similar.squirrel]

Their government has made an absolute balls of keeping bankers and so forth in check, but they're protesting the bankers instead of the government that didn't keep them on a sufficiently short leash to begin with.