What are we doing?

[deonte9109]

I had recently watched an ABC special about China. Of course they did all of the usual bits about China's past and how they're growing now. That China is better than America in some aspects but still lacking in some. But some comments from an interviewee made me seriously think. Now I dont remember the comments verbatim but the two comments that caught my attention was that first: "For success there must be a mission, we do not become the leading nation as a goal it is the result of our mission." Second: "America in a sense is too democratic. In the US you can build a road but debate about it for two, three years. In China they say they want to build a road they build it." Now as mentioned before this isnt direct quotes just what I remember. Sure China has had social problems and censorship issues but at the end of the day they are still able to progress despite this. I live i America and when I look around I wonder what is it that my country is doing.? It seems nowadays that masses are concerned about who's gonna win American Idol or what the people on Jersey Shore or Real Housewives of "enter city" are doing. Then on the political side, candidates are more concerned about mudslinging than actually getting in touch with the people and improving the government. Now of course I dont know what exactly Chinese people do in their country but obviously whatever they are doing is working. At the rate that things are going, China is going to be the leading superpower. America in these recent years has become increasingly lazy but maybe thats because we are the leading nation. We no longer have that drive to compete because many Americans believe that we dont have to anymore.

So my fellow Escapist denziens, I would like to know your thoughts about China's growing wealth and power? I do understand that a number of you guys are not in America but I would still like your opinions hopefully, yours will be more diverse than those from America.

 

[hittite]

In the immortal words of 90% of my generation: meh.

 

[Serenegoose]

What is progress? Being richer? More numerous? More intelligent? More productive? Are Chinese citizens happier than the citizens anywhere else? That's the question. If not, they're doing something wrong. All this talk of productivity is ultimately meaningless. There's no civ score, there's no victory conditions. Being productive is only useful for the result it gets you. I believe if that result isn't to make your people happier, it's a wasted effort, a sacrifice in pursuit of a meaningless abstract.

 

[MGlBlaze]

"America in a sense is too democratic. In the US you can build a road but debate about it for two, three years. In China they say they want to build a road they build it."

I sincerely hope they simply confused 'democratic' with 'bureaucratic'.
That said, while bureaucratic elements are necessary for any country, it is taken too far sometimes. As they mentioned, taking two or three years to finally get around to building a damn road.

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

What is progress? Being richer? More numerous? More intelligent? More productive? Are Chinese citizens happier than the citizens anywhere else? That's the question. If not, they're doing something wrong. All this talk of productivity is ultimately meaningless. There's no civ score, there's no victory conditions. Being productive is only useful for the result it gets you. I believe if that result isn't to make your people happier, it's a wasted effort, a sacrifice in pursuit of a meaningless abstract.

by the same token, though, (and i think this is what the OP is asking, kinda...) is America any better? i guarantee you that America is not the happiest or most contented/satisfied nation on earth right now. there have been several studies to that effect, even.

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

What people are doing in China is being trodden under the heel of a cruel dictatorship which cares more about their factory figures than human life, forcing their people to slave for very little money specifically in order to create a low cost business that could take business from American buyers and make the government great oodles of cash which never gets sent back down to the work force.

Oh yes, and they have thoght police, a block on expressing independent thought anywhere, and a joke of a legal system which boils down to 'If the government wants you dead, better get that life insurance in order.'

I think I'll take a lazy democracy over a brutal authoritarian dictatorship any day. I don't know what programme you were watching, but I don't think I've ever seen a programme about Chinan without the words 'awful human rights record' or 'brutal torture of innocents' coming into it somewhere, which tends to tip me off that I wouldn't like it there.

 

[Serenegoose]

What is progress? Being richer? More numerous? More intelligent? More productive? Are Chinese citizens happier than the citizens anywhere else? That's the question. If not, they're doing something wrong. All this talk of productivity is ultimately meaningless. There's no civ score, there's no victory conditions. Being productive is only useful for the result it gets you. I believe if that result isn't to make your people happier, it's a wasted effort, a sacrifice in pursuit of a meaningless abstract.

by the same token, though, (and i think this is what the OP is asking, kinda...) is America any better? i guarantee you that America is not the happiest or most contented/satisfied nation on earth right now. there have been several studies to that effect, even.

I'm not American - but I wasn't arguing 'china sucks compared to america' but more 'ok, china is being china... but that doesn't make it better than anywhere just because it's one of the fastest developing countries in the world. It just makes it a quickly developing country.' In my opinion, no country is really succeeding at the happiness race. They're all a little bit too caught up in global geopolitical nonsense and playing for points. Though if the surveys are anything to go by, the Scandinavians are technically 'winning'.

 

[MasterOfWorlds]

I actually just watched the same thing. I was actually saying how I liked a little bit of the guy's mentality.

I think the guy had it wrong when he said, "Too much democracy."

I think he should have said, "Too much beuracracy." (Pardon is I misspelled that)

It's all the paperwork and such that slows us down. However, part of the reason we have that problem is because we do bidding for the contracts, have safety and environmental codes, insurance, and so forth and so on.

Remember, it also said that 700,000 citizens in China live on less than $2 a day, and 25% of the water is undrinkable. Sure, they have 500 billionares, which is more than the US has, but they have 2 1/3X of the US population below poverty. XD

Sure, they're more productive and such, but I'm not convinced that the quality of life is any better than ours. In fact, since China has a population of about 4 1/3X the US, and 700,000 (which is about 2 1/3X the US population, mind you.) lives below poverty, I'd bet that our quality of life is much better than most of China's.

I do think we could do better, but part of the two party system is making sure that no one has too much power. Sure, it's less efficient, but we actually have a say as citizens of the US. In China...not so much. XD

 

[superstringz]

At the end of the day, I'd much rather be poor and free than comfortable and controlled. Money, power, etc, its all just a means to an end: Personal Liberty. As borderline extremist for individualism myself, I'd say I'd hate every second of living in China, no matter how well they present themselves.

 

[MasterOfWorlds]

Oh yes, and they have thoght police, a block on expressing independent thought anywhere, and a joke of a legal system which boils down to 'If the government wants you dead, better get that life insurance in order.'

I actually heard that in China, they often use the firing squad and bill the family for the bullet. I'm not sure how true it is, but could you imagine? XD

 

[deonte9109]

I think I'll take a lazy democracy over a brutal authoritarian dictatorship any day. I don't know what programme you were watching, but I don't think I've ever seen a programme about Chinan without the words 'awful human rights record' or 'brutal torture of innocents' coming into it somewhere, which tends to tip me off that I wouldn't like it there.

Let it also be noted that America has suffered from similar problems in the past. America has also had a bad human rights record and has tortured many people. We just have more or less forgotten what we have done i the past.

 

[Kuchinawa212]

Who said that quote. Maybe the system is working, just the people aren't.
I dunno, America I think can suffer a good kick to the rear. It kind of needs one yet tries it's best to prevent it. I found it dishearting to learn 1/2 black people in my area are out of a job and the reading level in has severely decreased. These are the people that are going to perpetuate a vicious cycle. No Job means no money for good education. Poor education means poor job skills. Poor job skills means no job or little income job, which means even less money for education! =[

 

[Jamboxdotcom]

What is progress? Being richer? More numerous? More intelligent? More productive? Are Chinese citizens happier than the citizens anywhere else? That's the question. If not, they're doing something wrong. All this talk of productivity is ultimately meaningless. There's no civ score, there's no victory conditions. Being productive is only useful for the result it gets you. I believe if that result isn't to make your people happier, it's a wasted effort, a sacrifice in pursuit of a meaningless abstract.

by the same token, though, (and i think this is what the OP is asking, kinda...) is America any better? i guarantee you that America is not the happiest or most contented/satisfied nation on earth right now. there have been several studies to that effect, even.

I'm not American - but I wasn't arguing 'china sucks compared to america' but more 'ok, china is being china... but that doesn't make it better than anywhere just because it's one of the fastest developing countries in the world. It just makes it a quickly developing country.' In my opinion, no country is really succeeding at the happiness race. They're all a little bit too caught up in global geopolitical nonsense and playing for points. Though if the surveys are anything to go by, the Scandinavians are technically 'winning'.

yeah, i know that's not what you were saying, and i don't disagree with you in any way. i was just extending your point back to what the OP was asking. America tends to see itself in a competition with the rest of the world, and right now China is the most obvious competitor. but we tend to miss the point here. the concept of America is of a happy, free place. but of late we're too busy worrying and working ourselves into the ground to see that we are losing sight of our happiness.

 

[Berethond]

We've had way too many stupid leaders with no economic sense.

Of course, China doesn't have smart leaders either. Their economy is out of control and the only thing propping it up is the U.S.

And I like being in the third free-est country in the world.