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gorfias

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Wow. So much fun. My hopefully soon to be nephew in law games with me in Oculus Quest Arizona Sunshine. Tonight we started on the train tracks. I regret I didn't have my 6 shooter right off but got it eventually. He asks for understanding that yes, he knows every in and out of the game but he had lots of time to experiment during the Covid lockdown. I'm having so much fun I don't know if regular PC gaming will ever match my love of this new experience.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Again, this might be seen as blasphemy to suggest Fromsoft get some outside help, but maybe get someone from Capcom to help tighten up some of those mechanics most games have nailed, but that Fromsoft is still strangely lagging behind on. Affording Fromsoft with the same leniency regarding their rusty mechanics as we did back when they were still 'the little studio that could' feels a little unwarrented since they're one of the most prolific game studios within the industry now.
If you want to play Devil May Cry, then go play Devil May Cry. Fromsoft is doing its own thing and its apparently very popular, so its more likely that those complaining about it are in the wrong.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Wow. So much fun. My hopefully soon to be nephew in law games with me in Oculus Quest Arizona Sunshine. Tonight we started on the train tracks. I regret I didn't have my 6 shooter right off but got it eventually. He asks for understanding that yes, he knows every in and out of the game but he had lots of time to experiment during the Covid lockdown. I'm having so much fun I don't know if regular PC gaming will ever match my love of this new experience.
That was the first VR game I got and played too. Its pretty cool, HL ALyx is better, but Arizona is a really good start, especially coop.
 
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gorfias

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That was the first VR game I got and played too. Its pretty cool, HL ALyx is better, but Arizona is a really good start, especially coop.
Alyx is on my radar. .... Oh heck.... buying ASAP! I just keep reading it is the best VR game of all time. Grrrr Oculus store does not appear to have Alyx.
 

BrawlMan

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I have forgotten the subtle and major improvements to NMH2. You can select mutiple swords once you buy them (no mid combo switching tho), Travis non-melee attacks can cause actual damage instead of just stun state, you can grab enemies if they're knocked down on the ground, can switch between targets once blocking-on (remember the conversation we had @happyninja42?), and you have a super mode that is a risk/reward. Get it hit before you manually activate it, and it goes down. I've already beaten Nathan Copeland.

The side jobs are 8 bit this time, and I find them more than fun than the mini games from the first game. The gym trials I'm whatever towards, but I think I like the gym exercises from the first game, because they were so easy to do.
 
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happyninja42

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Yeah, I start climbing death mountain and was doing pretty good until I started running into "TOO HOT" and started catching on fire, so I kept trying to find a way up or something because I started from the Woodland area on the West/Southern side. What I didn't realize was that if I had started from the Southeastern side, I would have found the stable with the lady who sells you flame potions to help you get up the mountain. And since I had already unlocked the Volcano tower I could start from there and save myself some time.

I found I can buy flame armor in Goron City but that's also pricey. So back to the bowling game I go to grind more money. I do find it interesting the Gorons sell flameproof armor but you have to be able to reach their city to actually buy it, which feels like a weird economic fail. I mean, yeah, if you made it there you do feel the urge to buy it ASAP, OTOH, you need to make it up the mountain past the monsters and horrible heat which you would think would limit sales somewhat. And I can only imagine the poor sods who can't teleport away to grind cash to buy the armor.

Yes, I am criticizing the economy of a zelda game. Because I clearly have nothing better to do.
Yeah I did find it strange that you needed to endure the elemental zones in order to get the armor that helped you endure the elemental zones. I guess the idea was to force you to use the "proof" potions from vendors up to that point. But, since that's a one time thing, it's kind of silly in my opinion.
 

happyninja42

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I have not forgotten the subtle and major improvements to NMH2. You can select mutiple swords once you buy them (no mid combo switching tho), Travis non-melee attacks can cause actual damage instead of just stun state, you can grab enemies if they're knocked down on the ground, can switch between targets once blocking-on (remember the conversation we had @happyninja42?), and you have a super mode that is a risk/reward. Get it hit before you manually activate it, and it goes down. I've already beaten Nathan Copeland.

The side jobs are 8 bit this time, and I find them more than fun than the mini games from the first game. The gym trials I'm whatever towards, but I think I like the gym exercises from the first game, because they were so easy to do.
Cool, nice to see that block-on mechanic is out there somewhere.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
Alyx is on my radar. .... Oh heck.... buying ASAP! I just keep reading it is the best VR game of all time. Grrrr Oculus store does not appear to have Alyx.
Its a valve game so its on steam. I think the Oculus works with steam VR, might need some tweeking though.

Not really.
Complaining about the combat in Darksouls puts me in mind of people bitching about tank controls or turn based combat. You wouldn't be into streets of rage 4 if it was a brown fps game or a 3rd person open world game.
 
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Complaining about the combat in Darksouls puts me in mind of people bitching about tank controls or turn based combat. You wouldn't be into streets of rage 4 if it was a brown fps game or a 3rd person open world game.
I didn't ask nor say Dark Souls should play or be exactly like DMC. All I said was that it should have a better lock-on. When No More Heroes and God of War 4 get this right, you know there is a problem. From Software is no longer the little developer that could. They know they can evolve further. They are one of the big boys and girls now. No more weak ass excuses or defending bad/flawed game design.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I didn't ask nor say Dark Souls should play or be exactly like DMC. All I said was that it should have a better lock-on. When No More Heroes and God of War 4 get this right, you know there is a problem. From Software is no longer the little developer that could. They know they can evolve further. They are one of the big boys and girls now. No more weak ass excuses or defending bad/flawed game design.
I don't recall having much of an issue with the lockon in any of the Souls games.
 

happyninja42

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Complaining about the combat in Darksouls puts me in mind of people bitching about tank controls or turn based combat. You wouldn't be into streets of rage 4 if it was a brown fps game or a 3rd person open world game.
So, the POINT of Darksouls games is to have shitty controls? You consider that a feature, not a bug? Because I see tons of people who ***** about other games that have shitty UI and mechanics, and consider them a detriment to the gaming experience, and rightly so. Yet when people point out things like how From Soft have clunky mechanics, that don't follow the same rules at any given time, openly let things work one way for the AI, but not for you, and generally just make it a struggle to PLAY the game, independent of the difficulty, we're somehow out of line?

I mean Sekiro is entirely populated by an army of Kitty Prides, who all seem perfectly capable of literally attacking me through walls and trees, yet I don't have the same ability. So trying to hide behind terrain, isn't a valid survival tactic, because the game just says "Fuck you, die." But if I try and do the same, nope, sorry, you just smack a wall. It also can't seem to figure out how far away an enemy has to be for them to maybe hear my stealth kill of their nearby ally, and seems to just be totally fucking random. I've been farming a certain route for XP for 2 days now ,and a part of that route are 2 dudes who walk side by side, back and forth. And the game has both had the other guy hear me stab his friend, when he was 10ft in front of me, but also NOT hear me stab his friend when literally standing right next to him. It's the same set of enemies, and the game has no idea how to reliably calculate detection...in a game where detection and stealth are a pivotal concept. It also says "enemies with a yellow triangle are alert to you, but don't know where you are, and are thus able to still be flanked." This is a flat out lie for like half the enemies you run into. As I can clearly SEE them rotating to constantly be facing me, even through terrain, like they've got x-ray vision or something. Some of them also don't ever seem to actually go out of alert mode, unless you just completely despawn them by moving WAY away.

So yeah, that have shitty mechanics. The fact that people learned to deal with them, doesn't make them NOT be bad mechanics.
 
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BrawlMan

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So yeah, that have shitty mechanics. The fact that people learned to deal with them, doesn't make them NOT be bad mechanics.
Yep. That's what I was telling Worgen, and he's doing it now, making weak ass excuses and defending flawed game design.
 

BrawlMan

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You wouldn't be into streets of rage 4 if it was a 3rd person open world game.
On that topic, that's already happened about 5 times. Except none of them were called Streets of Rage.

There's Shenmue, Yakuza, Beatdown: Fist of Vengance, Final Fight: Streetwise, and Judgement. Care to guess which game(s) suck or aged horribly?

At least Sega had the wherewithal to not fuck up one of their better franchise. Even if it was out of neglect and dislike of the series. Mainly the Japanese branch hated SOR; the US and UK/EUR divisions love the series like it was their own child.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
So, the POINT of Darksouls games is to have shitty controls? You consider that a feature, not a bug? Because I see tons of people who ***** about other games that have shitty UI and mechanics, and consider them a detriment to the gaming experience, and rightly so. Yet when people point out things like how From Soft have clunky mechanics, that don't follow the same rules at any given time, openly let things work one way for the AI, but not for you, and generally just make it a struggle to PLAY the game, independent of the difficulty, we're somehow out of line?
Yes, that is literally part of the appeal. But its not shitty controls, its awkward controls, there is a difference. Shitty controls are unresponsive and unpredictable, awkward controls are mostly predictable but unresponsive. To 'git good' you have to master the awkwardness and that is appealing to a lot of people. If you want an action game with really tight controls, there is Devil May Cry, God of War, Bayonetta, etc etc.

Yep. That's what I was telling Worgen, and he's doing it now, making weak ass excuses and defending flawed game design.
There is a reason why soulslike games with tighter controls don't engross people like the originals do. Part of the "shitty mechanics" is what makes them fun, if they aren't fun for you, then go play something else. There is a wiiiiiide range of games out there, I know you can find something you will like, I believe in you. YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!!

On that topic, that's already happened about 5 times. Except none of them were called Streets of Rage.

There's Shenmue, Yakuza, Beatdown: Fist of Vengance, Final Fight: Streetwise, and Judgement. Care to guess which game(s) suck or aged horribly?

At leas Sega had the wherewithal not fuck up one of their better franchise. Even if it was out of neglect and dislike of the series. Mainly the Japanese branch hated SOR; the US and UK/EUR divisions love the series like it was their own child.
Ok, short answer is that you wouldn't.
 

BrawlMan

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There is a reason why soulslike games with tighter controls don't engross people like the originals do. Part of the "shitty mechanics" is what makes them fun, if they aren't fun for you, then go play something else. There is a wiiiiiide range of games out there, I know you can find something you will like, I believe in you. YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!!!
And once again it sounds like you're making excuses for crappy controls. It's like that argument of saying how Resident Evil was better because of the tank controls and the camera angles are they hide enemies. Tank controls were a compromise, because full 3d movement hadn't been perfected yet. It took until the late 6th gen an early 7th gen to finally get 3D working right.


To 'git good' you have to master the awkwardness and that is appealing to a lot of people. If you want an action game with really tight controls, there is Devil May Cry, God of War, Bayonetta, etc etc.
And once again, all I'm asking is for a better lock on. I'm not asking for enemies to be juggled in the air and shot with bullets over 50 times.

Ok, short answer is that you wouldn't.
I don't know what type of answer that is, I'm going to go with wrong and a nonanswer response. The correct answer is Shenmue, Beatdown, and Final Fight: StreetWise. The first aged horribly and the original creator has not done anything to improve its game design from over the past 20 years with its recent new installment. The latter two are just really bad games that try too hard to be edgy, "ghetto/hood" and are crappy GTA knockoffs.

Good night. I won't be responding till I get up later in the morning.
 

Casual Shinji

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If you want to play Devil May Cry, then go play Devil May Cry. Fromsoft is doing its own thing and its apparently very popular, so its more likely that those complaining about it are in the wrong.
I didn't even mention Devil May Cry, dude. Capcom is simply good at making games that have hefty gameplay (like Souls games) that still have very tight controls. They've even made an action-rpg that like Dark Souls gives you a variety of builds and it plays like a dream.

The camera and lock-on in Souls games are just bad. And you might say that's part of the appeal, that the mechanics are screwy, but that doesn't make it good gameplay design. And it certainly doesn't mean people who complain about it are in the wrong. People are allowed to complain about whatever the hell the want in videogames, and that goes double for legitimately bad mechanics. Difficulty does not necessitate bad controls. I would think we'd grown out of that mindset with the end of the PS2 era. Heck, even the PS2 had hard games that controlled better than Fromsoft games.

I'll only git gud at a game if I'm having fun playing it, and I typically don't enjoy expending a large majority of my brain fighting a game's mechanics. Games like Hollow Knight have already shown that you can be as "hard" as a Souls game AND have silky smooth controls.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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I'm going through a metroidvania phase. Replaying a bunch of indies this year - Blasphemous, Guacamelee, Hollow Knight, both SteamWorlds... Just enjoy replaying a game that I really like but also plays out differently each time depending on how you approach it.
 
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BrawlMan

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I'm going through a metroidvania phase. Replaying a bunch of indies this year - Blasphemous, Guacamelee, Hollow Knight, both SteamWorlds... Just enjoy replaying a game that I really like vur also plays out differently each time depending on how you approach it.
Make sure to try out Strider (2014). I think it's still on sale on both digital stores