What defines a WRPG vs and/or JRPG?

go-10

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like the title says, what defines a western RPG and what defines a japanese RPG
THIS IS NOT A DEBATE ON WHICH IS BETTER! I just want to know what makes these genres, what are the things that make them what they are.

Before I would have said that this is strictly based on where they're developed but after playing Child of Light I'm not sure this applies anymore
 

Wasted

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To me it comes down to mechanics and themes. Turned based is the most obvious trait of a JRPG but they almost always have light character customization and world saving storylines. WRPG on the other hand usually have real time combat and a heavier emphasis on stats.

That is why I would consider Dark Souls a WRPG and Costume Quest a JRPG. After all, if you order a Hawaiian pizza in New York, you will still receive a pizza with ham and pineapple. Just because it was made in New York doesn't automatically make it a New York pizza, the ingredients are important.
 

go-10

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Wasted said:
To me it comes down to mechanics and themes. Turned based is the most obvious trait of a JRPG but they almost always have light character customization and world saving storylines. WRPG on the other hand usually have real time combat and a heavier emphasis on stats.

That is why I would consider Dark Souls a WRPG and Costume Quest a JRPG. After all, if you order a Hawaiian pizza in New York, you will still receive a pizza with ham and pineapple. Just because it was made in New York doesn't automatically make it a New York pizza, the ingredients are important.
interesting and can totally agree with you, still some JRPG's avoid the whole random battles gimmick, games like Tales of Xillia or Legend of Zelda rely on an action style battle system and enemies are viewed on the map and it's up to you whether you chose to fight them or not. Some follow you and attack you while others run away in fear. So at that point do they become WRPG's or do the big eyes and small clothes automatically make them a JRPG?

and now that you mention the whole world saving thing, I realized that most JRPG deal with defeating some sort of god like being while WRPG's deal with mostly ancient evils that have awoken again
 

Johnny Novgorod

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I think the difference is fundamentally aesthetic, and even then that's not a constant. Demon's Souls looks very much like what I would expect from a WRPG, yet it was made by a Japanese company.
 

Prime_Hunter_H01

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There is some definite cross over as genres start to blend. Because you need to look much deeper than base mechanics, because Tales games have real time combat, and Shin Megami Tensei games, the main series at least have customization stats.

I think that despite the conventions normal for both JRPG's and WRPG's bleeding over in to one another region of origin still plays a key role in classifying each. Since the more story heavy nature of RPG's in general mans that they are more reflective of the culture of origin. But also certain subtle mechanics reflect this as well.

The first thing people mention when talking about both types is the difference in exploration style and level of freedom. As a culture Japan likes structure and that is reflected in their games as even "open world" games are just allowing some side exploration that eventually leads you to a single point where you advance, letting you find secrets along the way as a reward. Which is what Dark Souls does, it is more of a Metroidvania, than a true open world rpg which is really obvious since a big part of advancement is creating short cuts back to your central hub. Compared to something like Skyrim which is pure open world with little restriction allowing you to run off and have a worthwhile experience with he game for a long time while never touching the main quest.

Also theme wise and mechanics wise equipment is treated differently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os3lWIuGsXE EC has a great video comparing the culture behind how weapons and conflict are seen and how it related to games. To use a summary of what they eventually explain, Japan sees weapons as an extension of themself, while the West sees a weapon as a tool. So depending on where it came from you see a little more reverence of ones weapon in the game. A quick look reveals that barely any "loot" games come from Japan where moment to moment you are on the hunt for your next new weapon, most Jrpgs either stick you with one weapon type, or if you can use many weapons you are encouraged to find one you like and specialize in it. In most Jrpgs weapons are segregated by character, so every character has one weapon that they have made a part of them self, and new gear is rare and usually a product of hard work or general advancement in the main plot, or Dark Souls where the upgrading system encourages you to stick with a weapon you like and eventually make it better by adding a special effect to it or ascending it with a boss soul. Again compared to a western Rpg where any better weapon will be taken and the old one discarded.

Though to acknowledge Child of Light which cause the OP to start the discussion, from what I know you don't really have equipment in that game, at least in the Weapon and Armor sense traditionally so don't use that as an immediate counter to the weapon philosophy, as well as that exceptions exist, since sentimental attachment exists to weapons in many cultures.

I guess the TL;DR is, there are subtleties due to culture that are much deeper than what you can see on the surface so region of origin is still the best way to classify a Jrpg or a Wrpg despite how they may seem. Though an analysis could easily be a massive essay.
 

madwarper

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GZGoten said:
like the title says, what defines a western RPG and what defines a japanese RPG
Well, one is made in the "west" and the other is made in the "east" (typically, but not limited to, Japan). That's it.
 

Blue C Jeffrey

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I think of it as a frame of origin; WRPGs are developed within the Americas and Europe while JRPGs are developed in Asia. Simple as that.

Although one could see some differences here and there, I think there are plenty of similarities which suggests variety within both "genres."

WRPGs are seen as action-RPGs and JRPGs as turn-based-RPGs. While popular franchises within both "genres" (Elder Scrolls and Mass Effect for WRPGs; Final Fantasy and Mother for JRPGs) definitely fit the bill, there are certainly games that do the opposite of that. Child of Light, as mentioned, is a WRPG that uses turn-based combat while Dragon's Dogma is a JRPG that advertises itself with free-roaming actiony combat.

Art styles are a big divide between them, I think. Looking at popular franchises again, WRPGs are characterized as having a realistic and gritty look while JRPGs more of a cartoony (Anime) and colorful look. Again, same games above apply as well. From what I've been seeing, many JRPGs nowadays sport the realistic looks even outside of cutscenes (looks a bit silly with some outfits, though).

One interesting discussion one could have is how popular JRPGs seem to becoming more like WRPGs. I would never fault anyone for assuming Dark Souls and similar games were developed on the Western front, especially having played it after games like Persona 3 FES. Even the settings for a few JRPGs are based on Western European aesthetics and fantasies.

Would you consider Dark Souls a JRPG based on development origin or a WRPG based on gameplay/setting?
 

Gamerpalooza

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Wasted said:
To me it comes down to mechanics and themes. Turned based is the most obvious trait of a JRPG but they almost always have light character customization and world saving storylines. WRPG on the other hand usually have real time combat and a heavier emphasis on stats.

That is why I would consider Dark Souls a WRPG and Costume Quest a JRPG. After all, if you order a Hawaiian pizza in New York, you will still receive a pizza with ham and pineapple. Just because it was made in New York doesn't automatically make it a New York pizza, the ingredients are important.
Basically this.

To summarize that is that at the very core of these two sub-genre's that stem from the core RPG genre itself being WRPGs focus more on autonomy while JRPGs focus more on relatedness.

The stereotype exists because a lot of western focus RPGs, that being WRPGs, tend to cater more to open world sandboxes with a lot of customization options. Literally just look at Dungeons and Dragons and/or Skyrim. On the other hand JRPGs are more novel in design where story is important. Everything from point A (Start) to point B (end) is an experience. The world, the sidequests, everything is all tide in a progressive manner with "levels" being tied to that traveling and progression experience.

This is why RPGs have branched out into many sub-genres and it's a good thing.
 

johnnybleu

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I'll chime in and agree with a lot that has already been posted. To me, it's not about where the game was made, but more about it's structure and mechanics.

WRPGs tend to have more freedom when it comes to character creation and/or exploration. They also tend to have a looser and more subdued story or plot. JRPGs on the other hand tend to be far more linear, with a heavier focus on the story. Character creation and branching dialogue trees aren't exactly common in most typical JRPGs.

Interestingly, my absolute favourite RPGs in recent years were all Western-style RPGs developed in Japan (The Souls games and Dragon's Dogma).
 

go-10

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Blue C Jeffrey said:
Would you consider Dark Souls a JRPG based on development origin or a WRPG based on gameplay/setting?
honestly I never thought of Dark Souls as a JRPG mostly because I always thought they were developed somewhere in Canada or Europe. Not once did I even consider that they were developed in Asia...

so it all comes down to where these games are developed? By that contrast then Child of Light isn't a jrpg much like Dragon's Dogma isn't a wrpg, despite both games having many of the aesthetics and systems that would make them belong to one genre or the other. In the end what matters is the region of development. So say the same team that makes Dragon's Dogma comes to the US and does the next DD sequel. It's the exact same team just in a different location, does the game now become a wrpg or is it still a jrpg?
 

Blue C Jeffrey

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GZGoten said:
So say the same team that makes Dragon's Dogma comes to the US and does the next DD sequel. It's the exact same team just in a different location, does the game now become a wrpg or is it still a jrpg?
Hmm...
Interesting question. You could argue that it becomes a WRPG simply for being developed in the West. Then again, you could also argue that it remains a JRPG "in spirit" if they maintain some subtle cultural identity as mentioned by Prime_Hunter.

Going strictly by development origin, though, I would say it would become a WRPG. For Dragon's Dogma and its setting, it would fit right in.
 

Doom972

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There isn't a single straightforward definition. We can only use examples to say which is which.
I could say that western RPGs emphasize expression of self through actions and choices while JRPGs have linear storylines and preset characters from a given roster. This isn't a perfect definition, since one can easily think of exceptions.

I recommend watching this Extra Credits video, and the two subsequent episodes for a better explanation of the difference:
 

go-10

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Doom972 said:
There isn't a single straightforward definition. We can only use examples to say which is which.
I could say that western RPGs emphasize expression of self through actions and choices while JRPGs have linear storylines and preset characters from a given roster. This isn't a perfect definition, since one can easily think of exceptions.

I recommend watching this Extra Credits video, and the two subsequent episodes for a better explanation of the difference:
whoa this is a really cool video, gonna watch all 3 as you suggested, thanks dude :D
 

McMarbles

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Country of origin. That's it. There's too wide a variety in aesthetics and gameplay styles among both.
 

Maximum Bert

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Hang on we havent even decided what an RPG is in games terms yet (yeah role playing game I know) or an agreed upon definition for game.

WRPG and JRPG are meaningless since its gained such popularity Ill use Dark Souls as an example. Some would say its a WRPG others would say its more a JRPG and others would say its neither its an action RPG or something and marketing is all the rage with sticking RPG onto the end of anything atm given the smallest inclusion of elements that would allow them to do so. You could equally say Dark Souls is just an action game as that is by far the bigger part of the game and cannot be ignored like the RPG aspects can.

I would say stop trying to find a meaningful concise answer where there isnt one make up your own mind what constitutes each if you must because your not going to get anything better unless for some reason rigid guidelines are brought in to say what constitutes what and I cant see that happening and I think it would be to late anyway new labels would have to be created.
 

COMaestro

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Traditionally, I feel the separation between the W and J RPGs was more on the story and the main character. In WRPG's, usually the player is the character, allowing them to assign whatever motivations to the character that they want. Many of them also just have the one single character rather than a party of characters, though this is not true of all of them.

JRPG's, on the other hand, usually have characters with their own personality. The player cannot change the personality of the character at all. Look at all but the first Final Fantasy, for example. The characters all come pre-made, the player does not get to alter them in any way except possibly their name (and even that option was taken away once games started having fully scripted audio).
 

Mister K

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WRPG's evolved from DnD, where main emphasys was always made on creating your own character(s) and their choices. WRPG's tend to have good gameplay, but story is either almost non-existent or is quite bare bone.

JRPG's evolved from Visual Novels, where the main focus was always the story, told using pre-made character and choices were most of the time bound by said story. JRPG's tend to also focus on the story, with only actual RPG element (by western standarts) being class system and leveling.

Tha is as far as I am aware.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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GZGoten said:
Before I would have said that this is strictly based on where they're developed but after playing Child of Light I'm not sure this applies anymore
Child of Light is most certainly a Western JRPG. (Played it - loved it - best 15 bucks I've spent in ages).

I'd actually suggest that Defender's Quest is also a JRPG. I mean, technically it's a tower defense game, but it feels like a JRPG. (And is another great game).

Considering that things like Dark Souls and Dragons Dogma are being made in Japan while games like Child of Light are being made in the west, the terms are pretty much breaking down into meaninglessness. Someone should probably rename the genres. ... someone other than Yahtzee if we want to be able to say them in polite conversation.
 

RandV80

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Lots of people have different opinions but personally I always go with a historical perspective, let's call it: Dragon Quest I vs Ultima I.

Basically, in the 80's game developers started trying to put pen & paper 'role playing games' into video games. They did the best they could with the limited technology but the games weren't necessarily that different compared to today. This is where 'turn based combat' came from. But as the technology got better and developers could do more there was a split in direction from Japanese developers, who at the time were making all the console games, and North American & European developers, who were making PC games. For the latter through the 90's they kept getting themselves closer to the pen & paper D&D, culminating with the Balders Gate series. In the East, they got away from D&D doing their own thing getting closer & closer to manga/anime, with games like FVI/VII and Lunar.

This is basically where I draw the line. Two clear development paths, one started in the West, one in the East. Regardless of where the game is made I define it by which path the game follows. Now it used to be easy because RPG's on consoles were from Japan and on PC were from the West. But where it go confusing is when Microsoft entered the console race with the Xbox and brought the PC developers with them. They're no longer Computer RPG's (CRPG was the old term) because they're on console, and defining Knights of the Old Republic and Final Fantasy X with the same genre label was confusing for many people, especially newer gamers. A confusing that still exists today and causes these discussions to pop up every other week.