What defines a WRPG vs and/or JRPG?

[Mrkillhappy]

I am use it as a regional distinction only, despite the fact that Demon's Souls & Dark Souls don't fall into the traditional style of gameplay that most refer to as JRPGs but instead the style of gameplay found in a WRPG I still call them JRPGs, the same can be said for titles such as Cthulu saves the World & how I define it as a WRPG due to region despite the similarities to JRPGs.

 

[johnnybleu]

Turn-based battles aren't the only thing that makes any RPG a JRPG. Wizardry had turn-based battles, as did most of the old D&D games, but they are strictly western. Nevertheless, Child of Light still shares many aspects of what can be called a "traditional" JRPG, and the "Western" part simply means that it was developed in the west and/or has a different style.

...But you've kinda proved my point there. So let me get this straight:

- Turn based battles are one of many things that makes an RPG a JRPG
- But some non-JRPG games can be turn based and still be strictly western.
- Child of light still shares "many" aspects (whatever these may be) of "traditional" JRPGs.
- But as Child of Light was developed in the west or "has a different style" (whatever that means) it is a "Western" JRPG.

So not only do we have extraordinarily vague and sometimes contradictory definitions of what constitutes a JRPG, we now also have have different *kinds* of JRPG based on whether they are Western or non-Western.

I'm not saying the whole WRPG/JRPG dichotomy is absolute and perfect, or that they should be the only choices. I'm just saying they're still helpful and give a good indication of what to expect from a certain game.

But these terms... they're harmful. I know plenty of people who like RPGs but won't even read a review if 'JRPG' is in the synopsis. "I don't like JRPGs - they're too linear/I hate turn based battles/I can't stand anime" are the kinds of reasons I get when I question them about it. These terms are steeped in sterotypes, and games these days are so varied the tropes are often incorrect anyway.

Genre labels are awful. Lord knows trying to subdivide all 'RPGs' into CRPGs/SRPGs/ARPGs is too complicated. The only sensible way to do it is be vague in terms of genre but then more specific in your description. Take Titanfall for example - it's an FPS. Nobody tries to call it a VFPS (V standing for vertical because they use jetpacks a lot) or MechFPS or any other weird thing. No, "It's an FPS where you can pilot robots and jump around with jetpacks".

Why can't we do the same thing with RPGs? It's a heck of a lot more elegant than trying to explain why a certain JRPG is definitely a JRPG even though it was developed in the west and also some of the things that make it a JRPG are also found in western games.

I'll grant you that the terms are vague and don't have a clear and concise definition. The problem is that different people have a different idea of what a JRPG is, as this thread shows. To me, if you say a game is a JRPG, I have a clear picture in my head of what to expect. But that's just me.

Now, I wouldn't say that the terms are harmful, per se... It's like saying that "military shooter" is harmful because people who don't like those kinds of games will tune out once they read/hear them. It's perfectly fine that they don't like certain types of games. I also don't think that genre labels are awful. If you told me "oh, this game is an rpg", it tells me nothing. Similarly, if you say Titanfall is an online competitive FPS, I know what you're talking about. Again, I'll stress that labels and categories are just helpful tools to quickly give an idea of any given game-- rather than go into lengthy descriptions.

 

[johnnybleu]

You obviously didn't read my post...

Obviously. Because if I had, my feeble mind would have been blown wide-open by the sheer brilliance of everything you said. It's simply inconceivable that I could just disagree with you opinion.

Computer RPG is a useless term as well.
When I say "CRPG", I mean "Classical RPG" - meaning "roots" not "old great" (some people get that confused).
In this case, classical means turn-based. Defining between console and PC is about as useful as defining place of origin. ie. not useful at all.

You might want to inform decades of gamers and games media that they got the term wrong. Seriously, this is the one and only time I've every heard anyone claim that CRPG means classical RPG, and that it actually means turn-based. Of course, I don't know what I'm talking about, and you are clearly an authority on this subject.

Never played Baldurs Gate (I hate Bioware) - is it turn based or action?

It's neither. If you want to get technical, it's an active-time strategy RPG (but that might still fail to adequately describe it). However, ask any gamer and they'll tell you that it's the quintessential CRPG-- as in, computer RPG. Just like Icewind Dale, Planescape: Torment, Dragon Age: Origins, Fallout, and the recently released Divinity: Original Sin (which was heralded by many as a return to form for CRPGs).

And no those aren't "my" classifications - they are the classifications that have existed for years. It's all we needed until somebody came in and tried to muddy the waters. And the result is, nobody is quite sure what J and W RPG are (as per the countless threads like this). Reason is, they serve no purpose.

Except that those classifications are just arbitrary categories that people just made up and/or adhere to. They hold no more value than any other word, except what we, as a culture, assign to them. Furthermore, the term JRPG has been around for a while and isn't just some recent invention to muddy the waters. The waters are already muddy, and Diablo could easily be a roguelike. ALL of these words serve exactly the purpose people want them to.

Of course, if you think that we need to revise any of these terms, or stop using some entirely (because you hold absolute wisdom on these matters), then that's a different story.

And yes, defining by place of origin is inherently racist (and/ or an extension of that console Vs PC bullshit).

So saying Mexican food is racist? What about American car? And Japanese animation? Is anime a dirty, racist word? Come on...