What do Japanese Think of wRPGs and Why?

[Syzygy23]

Stop looking at WoW and start looking at Planescape: Torment or Arcanum of Steamworks and Magic.

I could just as easily tell you to stop playing Final Fantasy and start playing Dragon Quest, Persona, etc. There are plenty of good wRPGs and JRPGs that don't conform to their negative stereotypes. That's the thing about negative stereotypes of types of media: ironically enough, you'll very rarely find something that hits all the marks unless it's intentional. Negative stereotypes are mainly forged from the worst aspects of the most popular entries of that type of media.

I was going to go off on the guy, but then you wrote this. There is no better way I could have said this, and I don't think I would have wound up saying half of it. It really is important to understand that last part. There is no jRPG which abides by every stereotype anyone would wish to ascribe to the genre, just as there is no horror movie or detective novel which abides by all the stereotypes of their own genres. You get all the cookies.

Yeah, played a couple of entries in both of those series. Persona had a neat combat system, premise was interesting, but... I dunno if it was the translation or something, I just couldn't follow the story and the characters were kinda meh.

WRPGS? It might look like all Elves n' Dwarves n' Wenches in the past 5-6 years, but that was the genre CHANGING from the more unconventional designs/styles of previous WRPGS (e.g. Planescape)

Give me a JRPG where there wasn't a character with a designated whiner/mopey guy in it made ever. One that WASN'T Chrono Trigger.

 

[Atticus89]

If I had to guess, Japanese gamers might see WRPGs as more open and free with customization while narrative, though integral, is not the main focus. JRPGs typically have a character pre-made for you and you control within the confines of a narrative while a WRPG is more on freedom and choice: you are the character and your decisions are your own rather than a character's.

Also, there's the cultural dissonance. While many JRPGs have you working in a team, many WRPGs have you by yourself. It's a conflict between a team mentality versus an individualistic mentality.

 

[Zeckt]

As far as Im aware, we don't specifically think of western RPGs as something weird or alien. They are different and not always our taste. We want a stor to unfold about something.

Looking at skyrim, thats near to nonexistant. We "are" someone and write our own story.. and get bored to hell with it because nothing really interesting happens.

So by all means, enjoy your self-fulfillment aspects of RPGs, we stick to our storytelling.

You mean that story about the group of teenagers who save the world? yeah, we've heard that one.

1000 TIMES

 

[ImSkeletor]

"Less then complete stagnation?NOOO! Come on Jrpg developers, help me be stuck in 1996 before its too late! Oh and was is this feeling I'm having? Is this having fun with combat? MAKE IT STOP! PLEASE!"

 

[Arina Love]

i'm mainly J-RPG player and i find W-RPGs utterly boring:
Plot and pacing are non existent or bad.
You all alone in the world or companions are more burden that worth and don't have personality(skyrim)
I don't like art direction and character design.
Total freedom is overrated.
I don't like combat, i much much prefer battle system of Tales of Graces F than Skyrim, Fallout 3
That is some main points why i don't play W-RPGs.

 

[Revnak_v1legacy]

Stop looking at WoW and start looking at Planescape: Torment or Arcanum of Steamworks and Magic.

I could just as easily tell you to stop playing Final Fantasy and start playing Dragon Quest, Persona, etc. There are plenty of good wRPGs and JRPGs that don't conform to their negative stereotypes. That's the thing about negative stereotypes of types of media: ironically enough, you'll very rarely find something that hits all the marks unless it's intentional. Negative stereotypes are mainly forged from the worst aspects of the most popular entries of that type of media.

I was going to go off on the guy, but then you wrote this. There is no better way I could have said this, and I don't think I would have wound up saying half of it. It really is important to understand that last part. There is no jRPG which abides by every stereotype anyone would wish to ascribe to the genre, just as there is no horror movie or detective novel which abides by all the stereotypes of their own genres. You get all the cookies.

Yeah, played a couple of entries in both of those series. Persona had a neat combat system, premise was interesting, but... I dunno if it was the translation or something, I just couldn't follow the story and the characters were kinda meh.

WRPGS? It might look like all Elves n' Dwarves n' Wenches in the past 5-6 years, but that was the genre CHANGING from the more unconventional designs/styles of previous WRPGS (e.g. Planescape)

Give me a JRPG where there wasn't a character with a designated whiner/mopey guy in it made ever. One that WASN'T Chrono Trigger.

Fire Emblem and Paper Mario come to mind. Possibly Kingdom Hearts if you don't look too far outside the main cast, which I don't (I suppose you'd include Riku (Rikku?) so you may exclude that one). I heard FFX wasn't particularly mopey, and I seriously doubt X-2 was, though I tend to avoid the Final Fantasy series. The list goes on and on really, and earlier games were way more diverse in what kinds of characters they were willing to write, just like wRPGs.

The problem is that, in America, people know the chocolate-chip cookies, love them, and buy a whole lot of them. Meanwhile, the oatmeal-raisin cookies almost never develop more than a niche appeal, so before too long, bakers aren't bothering to make oatmeal-raisin cookies anymore, so they can make more profitable chocolate-chip.

Over in Japan, chocolate-chip and oatmeal-raisin were both available, and they were so popular, that bakers started putting out stranger and more exotic types of cookies, like macadamia, and macaroons and...

Okay, that metaphor was beginning to strain.. Basically, Japan get by through throwing a whole ton of different ideas and seeing which proverbially stick. You don't get that very much in America, where the idea of 'different' is generally just using R.A. Salvatore's mythos instead of slight variations on J.R.R. Tolkien's.

I'd definitely say there's more variation in jRPGs setting wise, but they also don's focus on world-building that much so it becomes diverse setting vs. complex setting, though that is a gross oversimplification. Also, wRPGs tend to become mush more diverse when you take them out of the fantasy setting, though that disappoints me since I love fantasy and would rather play a unique fantasy game than another sci-fi game. My real issue with wRPGs is how they feel they need to be so damn bleak and tend to have dull characters in my opinion, though I have played games that break both of these stereotypes and loved them.

 

[NiPah]

As far as Im aware, we don't specifically think of western RPGs as something weird or alien. They are different and not always our taste. We want a stor to unfold about something.

Looking at skyrim, thats near to nonexistant. We "are" someone and write our own story.. and get bored to hell with it because nothing really interesting happens.

So by all means, enjoy your self-fulfillment aspects of RPGs, we stick to our storytelling.

You mean that story about the group of teenagers who save the world? yeah, we've heard that one.

1000 TIMES

Oh hell someone just broke out the simplistic argument again! Surely there is no defense by such a well constructed argument such as this!

Sure its pretty easy to write off JRPG storytelling when you put it like that, shit you just described Starwars, Lord of the Rings, The Never Ending Story, and The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Oh and for the hell of it take out the teenager part and you have nearly every movie, game, or book every made.

Did you also notice lots of paintings are of people? Or how every painting during the renaissance period uses the color gray?

 

[ImSkeletor]

As far as Im aware, we don't specifically think of western RPGs as something weird or alien. They are different and not always our taste. We want a stor to unfold about something.

Looking at skyrim, thats near to nonexistant. We "are" someone and write our own story.. and get bored to hell with it because nothing really interesting happens.

So by all means, enjoy your self-fulfillment aspects of RPGs, we stick to our storytelling.

You mean that story about the group of teenagers who save the world? yeah, we've heard that one.

1000 TIMES

Oh hell someone just broke out the simplistic argument again! Surely there is no defense by such a well constructed argument such as this!

Sure its pretty easy to write off JRPG storytelling when you put it like that, shit you just described Starwars, Lord of the Rings, The Never Ending Story, and The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Oh and for the hell of it take out the teenager part and you have nearly every movie, game, or book every made.

Did you also notice lots of paintings are of people? Or how every painting during the renaissance period uses the color gray?

Star Wars isn't about teenagers.

 

[Burnseasons]

Wait, how many Jrpgs are there actually about teens?
Off the top of my head I can only think of 3 or 4, maybe 5?

 

[ImSkeletor]

As far as Im aware, we don't specifically think of western RPGs as something weird or alien. They are different and not always our taste. We want a stor to unfold about something.

Looking at skyrim, thats near to nonexistant. We "are" someone and write our own story.. and get bored to hell with it because nothing really interesting happens.

So by all means, enjoy your self-fulfillment aspects of RPGs, we stick to our storytelling.

You mean that story about the group of teenagers who save the world? yeah, we've heard that one.

1000 TIMES

Oh hell someone just broke out the simplistic argument again! Surely there is no defense by such a well constructed argument such as this!

Sure its pretty easy to write off JRPG storytelling when you put it like that, shit you just described Starwars, Lord of the Rings, The Never Ending Story, and The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe. Oh and for the hell of it take out the teenager part and you have nearly every movie, game, or book every made.

Did you also notice lots of paintings are of people? Or how every painting during the renaissance period uses the color gray?

Star Wars isn't about teenagers.

Luke and Leia were both 18 in the first movie.

Luke and Leia were 20. Han and Obi were far older. Average age of the cast is over thirty and it features zero teenagers.

 

[NiPah]

snip

Luke and Leia were 19 at the start of the 4th movie, plus in the first 2 movies Obi and Anakin were teenagers. I guess Frodo and gang were much older (33 according to wiki), but the actor who played him was 20 so it was a bit hard to tell.

I guess if you want to argue the point I could say "oh look, a middle aged white guy is saving the world, haven't seen that 1000 times".

But my point remains, if you paint with such a broad brush no shit the stories are going to sound alike.

 

[figday]

They don't like WRPGs because they think the stories suck.

Pretty much this IMO.. Well maybe 'suck' is a bit harsh.
But you gotta admit, JRPGS has tons of unique storyline, characters, etc.
And you gotta admit as well, WRPGS storylines are, well, standard, cliche. (not all, but mostly).

Maybe, (MAYBE), the Japanese views on WRPGS are somewhere around, "seriously? I think I'd rather watch a Hollywood flick"

 

[Don Savik]

JRPG Worlds are generally mostly closed and linear, with little or no 'fluff', aside from the occasional side-quest area. They're also well-established, but everything about it will be spelled out in painstaking detail in completely mandatory dialogue segments, and usually with several completely made up words at their hearts.

wRPG worlds are generally open and non-linear, which can basically be read as "mostly empty, with the occasional completely unimportant area". They're decently well-established, but unless you really go out of your way to immerse yourself in the lore, you won't know jack shit about it.

I think the mandatory exposition dialogue is a big hinderence to jrpgs. Games are a great medium because you can immerse the player in the world without having to read 100 pages out of a book.

 

[Puddleknock]

Don't the Japanese make their own WRPGs. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Monster Hunter games as well as Demon/Dark Souls more closely aligned with WRPGs rather than JRPS. This of course assumes that the distinction between the terms is in the mechanics and scope of the games, rather than country of origin.

Anyway away from Japan I remember showing some Chinese gamers Oblivion a few years ago. They said they had never seen anything like it before, while they were familiar with JRPGs mentioned. So I guess it could the case that someone people in the east just don't have an opinion on WRPGs as they have limited or no exposure to the genre.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Basically, Japan get by through throwing a whole ton of different ideas and seeing which proverbially stick. You don't get that very much in America, where the idea of 'different' is generally just using R.A. Salvatore's mythos instead of slight variations on J.R.R. Tolkien's.

Are [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_mF8KkDiIdk]...you [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JKPPdgBK3r8]...sure [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq5KWLqUewc]...about [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lmw78t8NgIE]...that [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVIVvaP1On8]? I think the US has vasriety if your willing to look for it.