What do people actually want male gamers to be like?

[OldNewNewOld]

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Of course not. It gives you an unfair advantage though, which is what privilege is.

Where do I have an unfair advantage for being a male?

Are you serious? You are more likely get a job, get paid around 20% on average for doing exactly the same thing, and far less likely to get sexually harassed in the workplace (to name a couple of things). That is the definition of privilege

That's not true.
PoC and women have now a higher chance for getting a job because all the companies want to be politically correct so they would rather give a job to a incompetent woman than a competent white man. I know, I got rejected several times already only to find out that the girl got the job.

At my previous job I got the exact same salary as all my female coworker who had the same position as me.

I'm not less likely to get sexually harassed. I'm as likely or even more likely to get sexually harassed because women hitting on men is not considered sexual harassment by the was majority and if a man complains about it they will tell him to grow a pair and/or get asked if they are gay.

 

[Vault101]

First of all, dragonswarrior, if you want to present ?white privilege? as a legitimate argument, then you?ll have to ignore the entirety of Irish, Scottish, Polish, Jewish, and Italian history.

Second of all, I believe this image is relevant.

relevant to what? that image is cherry picking BS

it carries about as much weight as the lock and key metaphor

[quote/]I?m black, but I?m also male. Do I have ?male privilege?, or does the fact that I?m an ethnic minority balance it out? Still, even though I was bullied at school for my ethnicity (although they called it ?banter? and that I was just ?sensitive?), I don?t see myself as being oppressed. My parents weren?t slaves. I don?t use my ethnicity as an excuse for the problems I may have in my life. I don?t need Jesse Jackson to tell me that I?m strong, independent, and could be the Mayor of London if I wanted to. I don?t recall ever really having a ?male power fantasy?; all I thought was that guys like Batman and Sonic the Hedgehog were cool as hell. But I thought the same thing about Chun-Li and Dixie Kong. Most people, men and women, like having power, but I doubt most of us decide to write a comic book or video game where the protagonist gets to beat up homeless prostitutes for that reason (unless they?re Frank Miller, lol).
.[/quote]

its cross sectional

so YOU would have privileges as a man that I do not because I'm a woman

I would have privileges you don't because I'm white

none of these cancel each other out

so your statement about sarseeskian and quin having white/hetero/cis/class privilege would be true

its all kinda statistical anyway and depends on where you live

 

[Ikaruga33]

Just do whatever you want man, like me.
I'm going to play my titty simulator games like Dead or Alive, and there ain't nothing no one can do to stop me.

 

[Cecilo]

I have seen several posts in here about why Gamers have made Gaming such a crucial part of their identity, I cannot speak for all gamers but for me, it was like this.

In my youth, I didn't have many friends, my family moved around a lot, My Older Brother didn't like me (7 Years older, Brotherly competition and all that). So what did I do? I gamed. People made fun of me for being the new kid? Gamed. For being different? Gamed. People made fun of me for x, y, and z? Gamed. Throughout all the different parts of school, gaming was where I went to for relief, and in time, around the junior year of high school I found my school had a gaming club, and for the first time, ever. I felt like I fit in with something. Gaming, I dare say, saved my life. It allowed me to make the friends I needed, to grow as a person. To move on, many of those friends, without them I wouldn't have the drive to get up in the morning, And gaming is what tied me to them. I deal with work to get paid so I can go home and talk to my Girlfriend, and our friends about what we are gonna do that weekend for our D&D campaign, Or our Raids in wow.

So fast forward to now, 2014, Gamers are dead, Gamers are Rapists, Gamers are Terrorists, Gamers are Sexists who send threats. Rather than "Anonymous asshole sends Games Critic Threats", which as far as I can tell none of the threats Anita got were from someone she could identify, the first two of whom came from 4chan, which I will remind you, covers everything from Real Life, to Politics, to Anime, to Video Games, the threats from 4chan could have been bronies not gamers for all we know. The ones from Twitter, also have no way to identify them, and yet we are still called out for being the monsters, with no proof to back up that these people are even gamers... at all.

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I understand it can be hard to put yourself in my shoes and to see things from my eyes. But just imagine for a second, your favorite thing in the world, something that has literally helped you and kept you, and helped you make the friends you have, and cherish, who share their stories after a long day of work, about that awesome thing that happened. Imagine that they called Game of Thrones watchers Terrorists, because they sent G.R.R Martin threats about not finishing his latest book sooner. That sounds silly right? Surely they would just call it a group of extremists, or a group of assholes. Not the entire fanbase.

So if you, or they didn't mean All Gamers, then they should have used something else. A Sexist, A Rapist, A Racist. A Terrorist, Not gamers are rapists. Not Gamers are Terrorists, Not Gamers are Worse than ISIS. When they say Gamers, that means all Gamers, not magically some, and if you feel insulted it means you did something wrong. That isn't how language works, and it is another thing that shouldn't change to fit your needs.

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And finally, even if you do not understand why Gaming is so important to us. That is fine. You don't have to understand, Just understand this, or try to. We do not want women to feel like they can't game, that has never been the goal. We simply want you to stop trying to change gaming into a political thing. This goes for the men and women trying to do it. Gaming is about fun, When I play Total War I don't want establish a dynasty and conquer most of Europe (Or Japan) in real life, I play it for fun (Though there probably are crazies that think that playing a Total War game is good planning for the future, (It Isn't. The AI is crap at times))

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Edit - To the OP - Depending on who you ask, they want a lot of things, if you can honestly say to yourself you do not threaten people, you do not go around saying openly racist or sexist things, then you are better than the people who are decrying you for being as such. Find your friends, or make new ones, enjoy gaming.

 

[aliengmr]

Is it really that hard for people to just not give a shit?

Don't take it personally. The "They", that want to take all the boobies out of games or whatever, are very few in number. It is entirely possible to recognize something "sexist" in a game, enjoy the game, and not be some misogynist pig, I do it all the time.

Don't let opinions define you, especially from the internet.

 

[ZiggyE]

Social "Justice" is primarily a movement designed out of hatred for men, with the intention to control them. So they invent lies like "privilege" and "patriarchy" because they can't just come out and say "we hate men". Unfortunately, a large amount of people started believing their lies and now they are associated with a hate group without even knowing it.

 

[Winnosh]

To me it's all about this. Be a decent person and don't make excuses about other people being assholes just because you want to play games with them. If their assholes then why are you letting them hang around you?

That goes for male and female gamers.

 

[BNguyen]

Folks just want male gamers to listen and stop acting like they're the only ones entitled to games or gaming culture.

Like seriously, just listen. That's it. If someone is like "this is sexist" don't just be like "You're a feminazi!" actually listen to what they're saying and give it some thought. If someone is like "this is racist" don't just scream "Artistic integrity!" Actually listen to what they're saying and give it some thought.

And for folks to stop making death and rape threats, and to stop thinking that's "okay" or "just part of the culture." It's not okay.

There is some other stuff too, like how your rant is kinda missing the point. It'd be nice for male gamers to stop doing things like that. Acting like they're this horribly put upon group of people, when really the whole industry and culture still caters to them.

Equality does NOT mean oppression-for-males folks! It just feels like that to you because you've been so privileged. Losing those privileges is gonna hurt for a bit. You gotta role with it and remember it's for a good cause. And that others have had it worse off than you for years and they don't really appreciate it when that's finally acknowledged and some dude comes along with no idea of how good he's got it spouting shit like "well what about MY rights?"

It ain't cool man. It just ain't cool.

but the thing with terms like "sexist" and "racist" is that they are subjective terms to those that the content is directed at - you can listen to one person preach their viewpoint all day long and it still wouldn't be the only way to look at things - the same can be said of a certain female game critic, she says that all of these female-directed tropes are sexist or misogynistic but that can only be said of her standpoint and apparently the thousands that blindly follow on her every word as if it unmistakeable truth - the only thing you can look at are actions and that can be called the truth, but the motivations and thoughts before, during, and after said actions are subjective in perspective - sort of an "are you a terrorist or a freedom fighter" kind of dilemma.

Now as for the OP - you can't expect to please everyone, no matter how you choose to conduct yourself - if you think you're doing people no harm by acting polite, someone is going to in whatever way find a fault with your actions. For instance, one woman may say thank you for holding open a door or offering to help her carry something while another may say "I can do it myself, I don't need any help from a man", or that same woman might think you'll steal her stuff at the first opportunity even if you had no intention of doing so. Like the story of that woman a while back that had too much to drink and got on an elevator followed shortly after by a man who asked if she would like coffee. While I don't know the man's intentions, of which he might have simply asked her out by saying coffee as a start, but for some reason that woman instantly thought it was some kind of means to try and rape her. I guess I'm trying to say that you should pick the people you want to associate with and address yourself to feel comfortable around them and for them to be comfortable around you, but you shouldn't do this at the expense of not being able to do what you want to do. So you like certain games or movies and group A says that's cool and group B thinks of you as some kind of monster, obviously go with A but at the same time if group A doesn't like other aspects about you, then maybe it's time to distance yourself from all groups and do what you want to do.

 

[KrystelCandy]

Sorry, but how is the type of feminism you're describing different from egalitarianism? How is ignoring history in any way a bad thing when it comes to how we should live today? Reparations is a very, very bad model, because it just leads to more oppression.

Egalitarianism is seeking equality in all means and methods, it's not quite the same as feminism but I didnt want to bring up an entire other social system into the conversation. Feminism is seeking to create equal opportunities based on gender, equal pay, equal work, equal skill. It's seeking to put women at the same level as men in terms of opportunities and acceptance. This is more of a focus on a cultural change to a more accepting nature. This however does not say people

Egalitarianism is a bit different, it says everyone is born with natural rights and thus is entitled the exact same rules regardless of any circumstances. It is a profoundly seperate method that is kind of a group think and promotes a kind of same equality of opportunity without concern for individual differentiators that may provide particular benefits.

It's a subtle nuance, basically feminism wants equal opportunities for each gender through cultural changes and shifts that promote and support the fact that while our gender, skin color, religions are different, we can aspire and reach the same goals without them getting in the way. Egalitarianism wants everyone to have the exact same rights in all ways as those are the rights we are born with, and does not differentiate based on individual circumstances nor promote exceptional individuality based on any of the above circumstances. While there is still an equality of opportunity, it does not celebrate our positive differences from each other.

Also wut, reparations? Nu. That's something else and I don't believe in reparations except when the government goes out of its way to ruin the lives of people who up till that point had been living just fine within the country (The Japanese during WW2 for example).

 

[DC_78]

Sorry, but how is the type of feminism you're describing different from egalitarianism? How is ignoring history in any way a bad thing when it comes to how we should live today? Reparations is a very, very bad model, because it just leads to more oppression.

Egalitarianism is seeking equality in all means and methods, it's not quite the same as feminism but I didnt want to bring up an entire other social system into the conversation. Feminism is seeking to create equal opportunities based on gender, equal pay, equal work, equal skill. It's seeking to put women at the same level as men in terms of opportunities and acceptance. This is more of a focus on a cultural change to a more accepting nature. This however does not say people

Egalitarianism is a bit different, it says everyone is born with natural rights and thus is entitled the exact same rules regardless of any circumstances. It is a profoundly seperate method that is kind of a group think and promotes a kind of same equality of opportunity without concern for individual differentiators that may provide particular benefits.

It's a subtle nuance, basically feminism wants equal opportunities for each gender through cultural changes and shifts that promote and support the fact that while our gender, skin color, religions are different, we can aspire and reach the same goals without them getting in the way. Egalitarianism wants everyone to have the exact same rights in all ways as those are the rights we are born with, and does not differentiate based on individual circumstances nor promote exceptional individuality based on any of the above circumstances. While there is still an equality of opportunity, it does not celebrate our positive differences from each other.

Also wut, reparations? Nu. That's something else and I don't believe in reparations except when the government goes out of its way to ruin the lives of people who up till that point had been living just fine within the country (The Japanese during WW2 for example).

Basically I have always seen it described simply as a race.

Equalitarians want everyone to start at the same time next to each other and to address cheating/adversity in the race by occasionally giving a boost to some racers so they can catch up. Yet no one is entitled to place or even complete the race.

Some feminists think the race's starting points should be all over with those that have it the worst farther ahead on the track and those that have it the easiest farther back. Everyone however should finish the race but winning does not actually count because everyone gets the same trophy.

 

[Colour Scientist]

Social "Justice" is primarily a movement designed out of hatred for men, with the intention to control them. So they invent lies like "privilege" and "patriarchy" because they can't just come out and say "we hate men". Unfortunately, a large amount of people started believing their lies and now they are associated with a hate group without even knowing it.

This mindset is so paranoid, I don't even understand how people develop this kind of victim mentality.

Like, can you read what you just posted and honestly say that it's a rational point of view?

 

[Thaluikhain]

I don't know, if you ask me, there aren't as many differences for us to celebrate as people like to think up. The whole idea of drawing attention to differences in race or gender is, by definition, racist and sexist after all. And what in the world is "positive differences" suppose to mean? That honestly just sounds like a meaningless feel-good term that fits more in with the feel of the philosophy rather than holding any tangible real world meaning.

There's no positive outcome for trying to drive a stake between people based on gender/race/ect. Gender might have a difference physically, sure, but race is honestly just skin color, it's pretty much pure chance that humans at some point decided that mattered and put a stigma on it, and it could have just as easily been whether you have attached or free earlobes for all the actual weight it has outside of the meaning we randomly assigned it at some point in history. But honestly gender has largely been the same way.

I'm saying, instead of keeping tabs, marking little notches in the privileged scoreboard, why don't we just shed the notion that these things are important? We can identify as what we want to identify as, the more we try to make these things important, when they're not, the more we give prejudicial people ammo.

Sure, it'd be much better if people got over all those differences. But that's not realistically going to happen in the foreseeable future. There's no point talking about a perfect solution which isn't going to happen. Might as well ask why we have a police force, wouldn't it be better if there was no crime?

We can't get people to stop noticing differences. We can get more of them to say "But it's ok to be different" afterwards.

 

[loa]

That seems more trouble than it's worth just to identify as a "gamer".

 

[Caostotale]

Social "Justice" is primarily a movement designed out of hatred for men, with the intention to control them. So they invent lies like "privilege" and "patriarchy" because they can't just come out and say "we hate men". Unfortunately, a large amount of people started believing their lies and now they are associated with a hate group without even knowing it.

It might be time to step back from the internet for a couple of months, mate...maybe instead spend some time interacting with some of those 99.99999% of real folks who don't know anything, don't participate, and definitely don't give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut about this whole SJW/Gamergate non-troversy. Such an experience might make you quickly discover that, surprise, a subset of that 99.99999% of the total population also comprises a crushing majority of the gaming's money-spending audience, i.e. no matter which side of this crusade outlasts the other (I won't say 'triumphs', as there would need to be actual spoils of some kind, or even a mere victory circle), the whole thing will still just be a little fart in the wind for the actual gaming industry.

You might also want to drop into a library and read one or two well-regarded history books. Unless you're hopelessly beholden to some fanatical idea that all intellectual activity is part of a massive Marxist/feminist/minority conspiracy, you'll quickly find that those 'lies' you've identified are actually real patterns of behavior that extend back hundreds of years and, for the most part, are still going quite strong. Historians, economists, and other social scientists have been researching and writing about it for over a century and, like the idea that climate change is real and the idea that the earth's not flat, they're ideas that pretty much all intellectuals and academics see as correct. To be accurate, I'm not suggesting that those sinister SJWs are completely well-versed in this information (truth be told, I'm still waiting to see one of those elusive devils somewhere on this forum).

 

[ZiggyE]

Social "Justice" is primarily a movement designed out of hatred for men, with the intention to control them. So they invent lies like "privilege" and "patriarchy" because they can't just come out and say "we hate men". Unfortunately, a large amount of people started believing their lies and now they are associated with a hate group without even knowing it.

This mindset is so paranoid, I don't even understand how people develop this kind of victim mentality.

Like, can you read what you just posted and honestly say that it's a rational point of view?

I find the suggestion that anyone other than these SJWs has a victim mentality to be pretty amusing, since they're the ones trying to claim they're victimised all the time.

It isn't a victim mentality. I don't believe I'm a victim because I'm targeted by these people. Because they're thankfully irrelevant to pretty much everything.

 

[Caostotale]

I find the suggestion that anyone other than these SJWs has a victim mentality to be pretty amusing, since they're the ones trying to claim they're victimised all the time.

It isn't a victim mentality. I don't believe I'm a victim because I'm targeted by these people. Because they're thankfully irrelevant to pretty much everything.

Wait, now...in your last post, you spoke of them as a 'hate group' spreading 'lies' with an intention to 'control men', but now you're claiming that they're completely 'irrelevant.' If you're going to go to the trouble of propping up such a big, nasty scarecrow, you might want to leave it up for a little bit longer than ten minutes.